Four Miramax Titles including "From Dusk Till Dawn" - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 171 Old 05-09-2011, 06:28 PM
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Someone show me a shot where the EB version looks worse than the Alliance.. and I will eat my hat. I will trade anyone my Alliance version for the EB version if they want it that bad. The EB transfer looks like it was done in the last 2 yrs while Alliance looks like a HDTV master from 1999.

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post #92 of 171 Old 05-09-2011, 06:32 PM
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Echo Bridge disc looks great. Alliance disc looks like garbage. HighDefDigest is a joke as usual. Not much to discuss.
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post #93 of 171 Old 05-09-2011, 06:34 PM
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yeah, based on the screens Salma Hayek looks great... and so does the Echo Bridge Transfer... I'd definitely trade my Alliance for EB..

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post #94 of 171 Old 05-10-2011, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

Alliance disc looks like garbage.

"Hyperbole overload, Captain!"

Neither are perfect, but please.

Such a damn shame that this movie hasn't been given a fair shake on BD anywhere yet.
Another movie that's devolved additional content wise, as it's evolved resolution wise.

Who has the UK rights? Lionsgate? Optimum?
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post #95 of 171 Old 05-10-2011, 01:14 PM
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Against my better judgement, I ordered the Alliance disc when the horrid "reviews" showed up on the Echo Bridge release - I should have known better and should have waited for screen shots. I also agree, that going by the screen shots (and that's what I trust), the Echo Bridge release looks much better. So I double dipped and ordered the Echo Bridge release.

If no one else does it by then, I might do a comparison, when I have both discs. I doubt, someone can show me a shot, where the Alliance disc looks better ...
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post #96 of 171 Old 05-11-2011, 12:23 PM
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I own both, to my eyes, including looking at screenshots from DVD beaver, blu-ray.com and dvd-active, Alliance is the superior disc.

Echo Bridge can look fine in some places and in others look like a fuzz upconvert, especially in the 2nd half of the film, which is rather obvious in the blu-ray.com Salma wide screengrabs. The earlier comparison shots of the driving scene looks nothing like my Alliance disc does. The Alliance disc aint great, but it certainly looks better on the whole compared to EB.


But seriously, to call one garbage and the other fantastic is pretty mellow dramatic.
Trashing on other sites and reviewers so harshly is also, a bit out of line and stuff I thought most AVS people frowned upon.
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post #97 of 171 Old 05-11-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dildatonr View Post
Echo Bridge can look fine in some places and in others look like a fuzz upconvert, especially in the 2nd half of the film, which is rather obvious in the blu-ray.com Salma wide screengrabs.
That looks like a pretty typical soft low-light shot, not an upconvert. If that's the horror that merits the supposed 1.5/5 rating, as opposed to actual transfer problems, I'll happily pick up the EB disc.
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post #98 of 171 Old 05-11-2011, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post
Nate Boss consistently demonstrates that he is one of the many clueless "reviewers" that has no idea what films are supposed to look like.
It's particularly amusing when they praise a transfer for lack of EE/DNR when they clearly prefer an artificially sharpened image.
If those screen captures are remotely representative of the transfer, they kill the Alliance disc, and I'd say they even look rather good.
I'm shocked that someone who clearly thinks of himself as a home video expert would judge any HD release based on screenshots posted online.

Nate Boss reviewed both the domestic and Canadian releases. I don't see any way in which either review can be seen as revealing a preference for artificially sharpened images. HDD stands by both reviews and recommends the Alliance release.
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post #99 of 171 Old 05-11-2011, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post
That looks like a pretty typical soft low-light shot, not an upconvert. If that's the horror that merits the supposed 1.5/5 rating, as opposed to actual transfer problems, I'll happily pick up the EB disc.
In comparison to grabs from the same scene from the Alliance disc. While not the exact same time stamp, close enough to show the strong yellow push, crushed blacks and softer overall image.

Personally it's hard to put any stock into screengrab comparisons when they are from different people using possibly very different methodology to capturing. Not to mention, I tend to trust my own eyes and watching the disc in motion to be the best judge.

I think making bold statements about either release without watching them is setting yourself up to look foolish.
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post #100 of 171 Old 05-11-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attebery View Post
I'm shocked that someone who clearly thinks of himself as a home video expert would judge any HD release based on screenshots posted online.

Nate Boss reviewed both the domestic and Canadian releases. I don't see any way in which either review can be seen as revealing a preference for artificially sharpened images. HDD stands by both reviews and recommends the Alliance release.
screenshots certainly arent a 100% reliable gauge, but they are orders of magnitude more useful than "professional" reviews, unless the reviewer's opinions consistently coincide with your own. his don't so those reviews mean nothing to me.
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post #101 of 171 Old 05-11-2011, 02:29 PM
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If I get the EB disc soon I will post shots from both releases using the same capture method. Haven't been able to find it locally though.

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post #102 of 171 Old 05-11-2011, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dildatonr View Post

In comparison to grabs from the same scene from the Alliance disc. While not the exact same time stamp, close enough to show the strong yellow push, crushed blacks and softer overall image.

Personally it's hard to put any stock into screengrab comparisons when they are from different people using possibly very different methodology to capturing. Not to mention, I tend to trust my own eyes and watching the disc in motion to be the best judge.

I think making bold statements about either release without watching them is setting yourself up to look foolish.

The only definitive statements I'm making is that I don't trust the HDD reviewer (in reply to "Attebery" above, my low opinion of his reviews is based on past reviews of discs I HAVE seen), and that those screenshots show no major objective flaws. If Best Buy has it, I'll probably pick it up tomorrow, since it doesn't exactly break the bank regardless of quality. I have no real stake in the matter, if I think it sucks, I'll say so.

But if it does, I'm certain it will be because of some scene Martin Liebman didn't capture. I don't find the colors on the Canadian captures appealing at all, and there's nothing to suggest that's the "correct" color scheme (deep blacks and hot colors are a perfectly valid artistic choice... look at Machete). And I honestly can't see where the Alliance disc has superior resolution rather than a slight bump in acuity due to sharpening.
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post #103 of 171 Old 05-13-2011, 09:11 AM
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The EB disc was delivered from amazon today. Barring any more electrical storms, I'll hopefully be watching it tonight. Again, from the screenshots, it seemed like the better gamble; though I'd concur with others that screenshots aren't remotely conclusive. If the primary difference between the two is EE (rather severe EE at that) making the Alliance disc seem more consistent in darker sequences, I suspect I'll be more content with the EB disc for it's color balance anyway - black levels will depend on whether they're actually badly crushed or there's just a difference between authoring levels that needs to be accounted for. I'm at least a little familiar with how b.com takes their screen grabs, assuming they're still using the same equipment and methods they used a couple years ago, but not at all aware of how the Alliance grabs in this thread were acquired. I suspect the EB shots to at least be fairly accurate, though I'm hoping a larger screen is more revealing of fine detail, which is usually the case. We'll see, if makes for a wise Friday the 13th pick or not.

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post #104 of 171 Old 05-13-2011, 03:30 PM
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I picked up their H20 Blu-ray against better judgment: Echo Bridge Debacle Update and Impressions of their Halloween: H20 Blu-ray
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post #105 of 171 Old 05-13-2011, 03:39 PM
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For those interested, I found all of the 5/3 and 5/10 Echo Bridge titles at K-Mart of all places. They are $7.99 each.
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post #106 of 171 Old 05-13-2011, 03:41 PM
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Yep, same here, a bunch at Kmart in their cheap bin.
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post #107 of 171 Old 05-14-2011, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Varnadore View Post
Barring any more electrical storms, I'll hopefully be watching it tonight.
Any word on major transfer defects?

Still can't find it locally
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post #108 of 171 Old 05-14-2011, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Any word on major transfer defects?

Still can't find it locally

I think the key going into either the Alliance or EB disc is to have low expectations. With that in mind, I was more impressed with resolution than I expected to be from the screengrabs. It's far from reference, but there was noticably more detail than I could make out in either the Alliance or EB grabs, when viewed from my laptop, and resolution appeared pretty consistent in both bright and dark sequences. The EB disc has a nice dynamic for a catalog title of its age. Colors looked much more natural - consistent with b.com's grabs - than they do in the Alliance grabs from this thread. And as b.com's grabs would indicate, edge enhancement isn't the extreme eyesore it appears to be in the Alliance BD; there's no way to ignore that level of ringing on a front projection setup.

Black levels are the only area I wasn't remotely content with. I'd have to see the Alliance disc or even the former DVD, which I no longer have memory of - having sold my copy a couple years back that I last watched many years before that - to make any kind of crude guess as to fidelity. They are crushed; there' sometimes more info there at raised brightness settings, but blacks become excessively noisy - only blacks, so it's not a simple matter of excessive compression - maybe sloppy compression, but nothing indicative of bitrate alone. I actually chose to lower my projector's (Sony VW60) gamma setting to gamma 3, which crushes shadows a little, which I found slightly favorable to lowering brightness itself. Shadows were stable after that, but still crushed.

Crush was the only real inconsistency of note. A little surprisingly, it wasn't all that objectionable in the darker sequences, like the vampire bar. It's when Clooney is standing out in the bright, desert sun, in that black suit, when you can hardly make out the pockets or the lapel, that it really stands out.

I'm still curious about the Alliance disc, but seeing as it seems far from ideal itself and maybe even a little more so depending on what ailment you're more sensitive too - noisy, crushed black levels vs extreme ringing, red push, and elevated black levels, the later of which can probably be compensated for with a little tweaking, which may or may not result in similarly crushed blacks as the EB disc - I'm content with the EB disc for now; though I'm no less reluctant to invest EBs other BD offerings, despite this one proving slightly better than early reviews. At $5 per film I'd be more encouraged to bite, which is what Mill Creek's BDs are already selling for. That said, I've seen worse from Warner, and at higher prices than the EB discs. Though the Warner BDs at least ported the special features from the dvd. Not to single out Warner, I'm sure From Dusk Till Dawn's A/V presentation surpasses some from other studios too - not that that's necessarily any consolation - but to add some perspective, it absolutely kills a Disney BD I also just recently watched: The Legend of Drunken Master.

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post #109 of 171 Old 05-15-2011, 03:13 PM
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Another Echo Bridge blog entry detailing From Dusk's BD and Venom on DVD here. In short, FDtD looks excellent, definitely better than the Alliance (blacks are deep, but detail, color, and depth are great), and the 2.35:1 Venom isn't cropped.
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post #110 of 171 Old 05-15-2011, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damnationdoormat View Post

Another Echo Bridge blog entry detailing From Dusk's BD and Venom on DVD here. In short, FDtD looks excellent, definitely better than the Alliance (blacks are deep, but detail, color, and depth are great)

It's amazing how one review completely trashes the EB release, and another praises it as better than the Allience release.

I already own the Alliance release, but your review and the opinions of others are tempting me to spend the $8 for the EB release just to compare the two.
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post #111 of 171 Old 05-16-2011, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sixfootse7en View Post

It's amazing how one review completely trashes the EB release, and another praises it as better than the Allience release.

I already own the Alliance release, but your review and the opinions of others are tempting me to spend the $8 for the EB release just to compare the two.

Like I said, "Let me put it this way, "as is" this transfer would garner much greater praise if this controversy surrounding Echo Bridge's uncaring attitude wasn't happening."

I really think that would be the case, like if Miramax held together long enough to release a SE Blu-ray with this transfer, the general reception of the picture quality would be much less cautious and most everyone would give it higher praise. I honestly couldn't find anything to quibble over unlike their extremely bland H20 BD. The Alliance FDtD BD looks dated compared to the Echo Bridge. I'm glad I picked it up, certainly cheap enough.
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post #112 of 171 Old 05-16-2011, 02:33 PM
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Just to be clear: while better than expected, this is NOT a strong performer by any means. There is little indication that Echo Bridge put any kind of sincere effort into this BD to make it praiseworthy, and considering the dearth of extras, their asking price is pushing it compared to studios who are deliverying more for the same price or deliverying the same for less. It's just not the worst of the worst, which is what I expected from early reviews and word of mouth. Like I said, it's still probably prudent to go in with lowered expectations.

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post #113 of 171 Old 05-18-2011, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreasy969 View Post

If no one else does it by then, I might do a comparison, when I have both discs.

Here you go:

Alliance left / Echo Bridge right (all shots taken with the same settings using VLC):















I much prefer the image of the Echo Bridge release (espacially the colors and the contrast), but that might be a matter of taste. It's also quite obvious, that the Alliance release is sharpened. If someone can name me one of the scenes, that's supposed to look horrible on the Echo Bridge release, please let me know - I'm willing to provide more screen shots of the according scenes. I didn't spot horrible looking scenes so far.
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post #114 of 171 Old 05-18-2011, 07:04 PM
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Based on what I'm seeing:

Alliance is sharpened and it's obvious in most pics...

Echo Bridge looks like they played with the contrast so it's crushing blacks.... Shadow detail is gone... is this intent? I don't know... Based on the time period, I don't think it was that contrasty though...

In the last pic, the Echo Bridge looks bad IMO... The sky is white,and there are no clouds... I'm thinking the color/contrast on Alliance is probably more accurate...

Overall though, I think I'd side with the Echo Bridge.. but it's hard to truly say...

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post #115 of 171 Old 05-18-2011, 10:15 PM
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Thank you for the caps.

Much like The Fifth Element, I'll take some EE over contrast boosting any day. Not fussed on the colours on the EB version either.
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post #116 of 171 Old 05-20-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreasy969 View Post

If someone can name me one of the scenes, that's supposed to look horrible on the Echo Bridge release, please let me know - I'm willing to provide more screen shots of the according scenes. I didn't spot horrible looking scenes so far.

Exactly, whatever the case (probably just dumbluck), EB did a really solid job.
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post #117 of 171 Old 05-29-2011, 11:30 AM
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To offer some additional perspective, I watched Lionsgate's BD of Scream (1) last night and EB's BD of From Dusk Till Dawn was much better, aside from black levels. Scream's black levels were solid with natural shadow detail, despite a dvd dynamic, horrible EE (which looked comparible to the degree of EE shown in the Alliance grabs above), and anything other than close-ups looked like dvd in terms of resolve: completely lacking any semblance of clarity or high frequency detail.

From memory, the worst sequences in EB's From Dusk... BD were all related to its black levels, which are some of the worst I've seen on the format: the opening convenience store sequence, the following motel interiors, and one short sequence where Clooney and Tarantino are talking in their car.

Not to undermine the above posters admirable effort in trying to help those trying to decide which version to go with, but looking at the latest, screengrab comparisons, I'd actually lean toward the Alliance BD despite its gross EE. That said, the EB grabs don't appear to reflect what I saw very well. I don't know what might be going on - maybe color smearing - but while EB's BD is far from the crispest HD out there, I don't recall it looking nearly as blurry.

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post #118 of 171 Old 05-31-2011, 11:08 AM
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post #119 of 171 Old 05-31-2011, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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is the EB region free?
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post #120 of 171 Old 05-31-2011, 01:56 PM
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Yes. I checked region A and B. I didn't check region C.
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