Question about DTS-Hi Res vs Dts Master - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 04-07-2011, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking at importing a few titles, some of them have bitrates for example of 2026 hi res, the release in another country or ours is dts master 2015.

Im not sure what this means? Is dts hi res still compressing them? Why would the dts master have lower bitrate?

Im just curious because I am not familiar with dts hi res audio, if anyone can explain if theres anything different.
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post #2 of 13 Old 04-07-2011, 07:25 PM
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Unless you run the exact same audio source into the encoder, you can get results where the lossless form uses less bits than a high bit rate lossy form.
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post #3 of 13 Old 04-07-2011, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, does this mean dts master is still better?
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post #4 of 13 Old 04-07-2011, 09:35 PM
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DTS-HD MA is better since its lossless and not lossy.
I have the encoder suite studios use to encode DTS-HD MA and DTS-HD HR etc.. and actually to encode DTS-HD HR after you choose your amount of channels and DTS-HD HR and input your wavs the choices for encode are just bitrates. In my opinion I see little point in using DTS-HD HR instead of DTS-HD MA since its lossless instead of lossy and uses little more bitrate.
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post #5 of 13 Old 04-07-2011, 09:45 PM
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The bitrate of losslessly compressed audio has nothing to do with its quality. It is only an indicator of the material's complexity.

I doubt there's going to be any audible difference between the two.
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post #6 of 13 Old 04-07-2011, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I sadly dont know why they dont just use dts master.

Im unfortunately seeing this pop up in pal country. The french version of the departed with a nice avc encode has hi res, the new higher bitrate planet earth has hi res as well.

I guess I could remux the departed, but then i would loose menus.
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post #7 of 13 Old 04-07-2011, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post
I guess I could remux the departed, but then i would loose menus.
Can you really tell the difference between the HR track and the MA track?
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post #8 of 13 Old 04-07-2011, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I dont know I never compared. But if i am importing a title I want the best quality.
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post #9 of 13 Old 04-07-2011, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post
I dont know I never compared. But if i am importing a title I want the best quality.
True that.
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post #10 of 13 Old 04-08-2011, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post
Im just curious because I am not familiar with dts hi res audio, if anyone can explain if theres anything different.
DTS-HD MA is lossless packing. DTS-HD HRA is hi-rez lossy compression. Nothing more complicated than that.

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post #11 of 13 Old 04-08-2011, 05:49 PM
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It seems at the 2Mbps mark the lossless MA encode is virtually identical to the lossy HR for 5.1 16/48.

House of Flying Daggers: Mandarin track

LPCM (US) 4608 kbps
dts-HD HR (Aus) 2046 kbps
dts-HD HR (Fr) 2046 kbps
dts-HD MA (TW) 2047 kbps

Perhaps if people doing encodes like the above realise this they would have chosen MA instead.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #12 of 13 Old 06-17-2012, 05:16 PM
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Sorry for the necropost but I think people are forgetting some valid points here. First off I want to put a disclaimer, I am not a professional I just read allot and I happen to have DTS Master Audio Suite and run allot of different types of experiments for the testing of audio codecs, transparency, efficiency, size, bandwidth, compatibility, etc.

DTS-HD High Resolution as of now is not just for smaller bit rates but for BANDWIDTH constraints! DTS Master even with a low AVERAGE bit rate the PEAK bit rate can be as high as 27mbps! If any of you have DTS MAS encoder run a high resolution PCM file (like 96khz/8 channels or 192khz/6 channels) then take a look at the peak bit rate graph and you will see that peak bit rate higher than DTS High Resolution can be sustained for a bit, combine that with multiple DTS Master tracks and you have a serious Bandwidth issue.

So yes DTS High res does have a place but it should have had a variable constrained bit rate (much like some forms of AAC) so 754 core with the extension being variable bit rate like DTS-MA but only up to say 2046, 2304, 2559, 3018, 4608kbps, etc. Variable bit rate can sometimes be rough for bandwidth constraints, very unpredictable. 96khz/24bit/8 channels in LPCM is a very high constant bit rate but DTS Master in tracks that consist of varying levels of activity correlating to high and low bit rates (simply put)...... Ill see if I can post some screenshots from my Master Audio encoder so you can take a look at bit rates, settings, etc.... DTS HR Bit rates and 8ch config.png 191k .png file DTS-HR_SampleRate.png 39k .png file
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post #13 of 13 Old 06-18-2012, 01:27 AM
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We were talking specifically about movie audio tracks with 48kHz sample rates, not higher resolution. I very much doubt peak bit-rate causes a bandwidth issue. In the example I gave above, I doubt the peak bit-rate of the dts-HD MA could ever exceed that of the LPCM CBR at 4.6Mbps, if it did, then there's something seriously wrong.

When we come to high resolution tracks nobody would want a lossy encoding. I have concert Blu-rays and audio only Blu-rays with 24/96 or higher in dts-HD MA and there's no bandwidth issue.

A 6CH 24/192 PCM track would be 27.6Mbps, the max. audio bandwidth allowed on Blu-ray, and if a dts-HD MA track ever reaches that, which means it can't compress at all then it doesn't make any sense. Even the official dts-HD Audio whitepaper doesn't give such a high figure.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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