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post #451 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

I love the SDDS 8 channel set up, I think that the more at the rear mentality that the others use is a real step back in many ways.

I like it too, but am also becoming quite fond of additional surround channels... wish we could do both, but right now the push, as you know, is for 7.1 Surround... for me it served the same purposes as 4 surround channels, i.e. smoother pans and somewhere else to anchor the music and / or effects to stay out of each others way...

As a matter of fact, I was in a brand new facility the other day (probably the last new mixing stage project we will every see of this size and scope) and the 2 largest stages (really large) are only 3 up front.... what they did add, however, was a VOG speaker for IMAX/Omnimax mixing.
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post #452 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


I like it too, but am also becoming quite fond of additional surround channels... wish we could do both, but right now the push, as you know, is for 7.1 Surround... for me it served the same purposes as 4 surround channels, i.e. smoother pans and somewhere else to anchor the music and / or effects to stay out of each others way...

As a matter of fact, I was in a brand new facility the other day (probably the last new mixing stage project we will every see of this size and scope) and the 2 largest stages (really large) are only 3 up front.... what they did add, however, was a VOG speaker for IMAX/Omnimax mixing.

Film mixer,
Thx for your expertise with all off this. It's great to have you around.
One quick question. Are you familiar with these Meyer 7.1 sound systems. I live near a Cinetopia in Portland, and the first time I heard it( Harry Potter 7), I was simply blown away. It sounded superior to any iMax sound systems. So transparent. Amazing bass without the entire theater shaking like in IMAX .

Was just curious if you were familiar?..
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post #453 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Film mixer,
Thx for your expertise with all off this. It's great to have you around.
One quick question. Are you familiar with these Meyer 7.1 sound systems. I live near a Cinetopia in Portland, and the first time I heard it( Harry Potter 7), I was simply blown away. It sounded superior to any iMax sound systems. So transparent. Amazing bass without the entire theater shaking like in IMAX .

Was just curious if you were familiar?..

Not yet familiar... but I have heard great things about it...

One of the independent post mixing houses just replaced their JBL systems with it... and they are raving about it..

As soon as I can, I mean to go have a listen.
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post #454 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 11:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


I like it too, but am also becoming quite fond of additional surround channels... wish we could do both, but right now the push, as you know, is for 7.1 Surround... for me it served the same purposes as 4 surround channels, i.e. smoother pans and somewhere else to anchor the music and / or effects to stay out of each others way...

As a matter of fact, I was in a brand new facility the other day (probably the last new mixing stage project we will every see of this size and scope) and the 2 largest stages (really large) are only 3 up front.... what they did add, however, was a VOG speaker for IMAX/Omnimax mixing.

Datasat now support 11.2 don't they?
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post #455 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 11:39 AM
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Thx!
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post #456 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Film mixer,
Thx for your expertise with all off this. It's great to have you around.

+1
Unlike many other technical aspects of a movie, we have a member who is an authority in film sound and whose posts can end some of the silly arguments we have around here.

A.P.S. deserve our protection....join the cause today!
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post #457 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Datasat now support 11.2 don't they?

Dolby, Datasat and the general D-Cinema formats all support > 7.1...
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post #458 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 12:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


Dolby, Datasat and the general D-Cinema formats all support > 7.1...

Huh, never seen them mention it, but Datasat shout it from the hills lol
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post #459 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Huh, never seen them mention it, but Datasat shout it from the hills lol

Why Datasat? I wonder why DTS sold its professional/cinema, division. I know DTS home and cinema versions were different technologies (Coherent Acoustics for home-lossy DTS, I don't know the name of the pro-codec), but DTS sounded more transparent both home and cinema, than Dolby Digital.
Now, with lossless codecs, I still think DTS has an edge over Dolby, but it may be a misuse of Dialog Normalization on Dolby TrueHD.
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post #460 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 12:59 PM
 
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Why Datasat what?
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post #461 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 01:12 PM
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I concur that the mix is where it all starts. You can't make a bad mix sound good no matter what codec you use. However, the opposite is also true: a bad codec can make a good mix sound bad. And good masters can also get fudged up on their way to good codecs (e.g. the initial JP DTS disc).

I realize that it's not just DTS (or "the codec") that made me fond of cinema sound, but the master... and I've given just as much credit to Gary Rydstrom as I have to DTS over the years.

And maybe some people disliked DTS and liked DD back in the day (I pity the fool that disliked SDDS based solely on sound quality), but I favored the sound of DTS. Maybe it was the bloated bass, but I always attributed it to the lower compression ratio and higher bitrate.
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post #462 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by EddieVanHalen View Post

Now, with lossless codecs, I still think DTS has an edge over Dolby, but it may be a misuse of Dialog Normalization on Dolby TrueHD.

I have plenty of DTS-HD MA titles with DN values other than "off" (-31..)

How does DN "change" the sound of the decoded PCM?
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post #463 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 01:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


I have plenty of DTS-HD MA titles with DN values other than "off" (-31..)

How does DN "change" the sound of the decoded PCM?

Where do you stand on near field home mixes?
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post #464 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

How does DN "change" the sound of the decoded PCM?

If I'm not mistaken, it changes the relative levels of channels, that is tampering with the original sound, remember lossless=same in, same out.
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post #465 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by EddieVanHalen View Post


If I'm not mistaken, it changes the relative levels of channels, that is tampering with the original sound, remember lossless=same in, same out.

You are mistaken. It does not do that at all, and works the exact same way for both Dolby and DTS.

It is a post decode attenuation.
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post #466 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 02:43 PM
 
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Jurassic Park limited edition unboxing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwQc...e_gdata_player
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post #467 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 04:23 PM
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Went to see Jurassic Park at the cinema today. It's one of my earliest memories of going to the cinema as a child (the very earliest is Superman 4 but we'll not go there...).

This is clearly what they're using for the bluray and I don't think that's a bad thing! I went in partly to re-live it on the big screen but also because I was curious about whether Universal had messed with the PQ. Being a Spielberg film I was hopeful. I didn't see any evidence of DNR, no halos except for possibly around objects that CG Dinos pass behind but I'm guessing this has more to do with the early 90's comps rather than EE. I knew it wasn't likely but I was also happy to see that there was no sign of any tinkering going on with the colours.

The sound blew me away. Felt great to FEEL the roar of the T-Rex again after years of only having the film minus impact. John Williams' score also sounded better than ever and retains it's prominent place in the mix.

This has become a day 1 purchase for me. Can't wait!
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post #468 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bga84 View Post

Went to see Jurassic Park at the cinema today. It's one of my earliest memories of going to the cinema as a child (the very earliest is Superman 4 but we'll not go there...).

This is clearly what they're using for the bluray and I don't think that's a bad thing! I went in partly to re-live it on the big screen but also because I was curious about whether Universal had messed with the PQ. Being a Spielberg film I was hopeful. I didn't see any evidence of DNR, no halos except for possibly around objects that CG Dinos pass behind but I'm guessing this has more to do with the early 90's comps rather than EE. I knew it wasn't likely but I was also happy to see that there was no sign of any tinkering going on with the colours.

The sound blew me away. Felt great to FEEL the roar of the T-Rex again after years of only having the film minus impact. John Williams' score also sounded better than ever and retains it's prominent place in the mix.

This has become a day 1 purchase for me. Can't wait!

The D- Cinema master shouldn't contain DNR, EE or any of the compression artifacts that can occur when squeezing the information on to a disc.

If you saw those things on a DCP, I'd be worried.
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post #469 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

You are mistaken. It does not do that at all, and works the exact same way for both Dolby and DTS.

It is a post decode attenuation.

Then please explain me and some others what exactely Dialogue Normalization does as some of us may be a bit lost here.
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post #470 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 07:40 PM
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DNR and EE are not byproducts of compression, they're intentional modifications done to the film because some of the powers-that-be actually think they improve the image.
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post #471 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Jurassic Park limited edition unboxing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwQc...e_gdata_player

I'm so sick and tired of Universal using these cheap, thin cardboard cases for there biggest franchise (BTTF and now JP). What do these companies have against the regular BD case, this can't save that much money.

PSN ID: RollTide1017
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post #472 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 08:24 PM
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DNR and EE are not byproducts of compression, they're intentional modifications done to the film because some of the powers-that-be actually think they improve the image.

I didn't say they were compression artifacts.. but removed the verbiage that wasn't clear about my reply.

I'm fairly well versed on how films go from DCP or film masters to compressed, lossy video formats.
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post #473 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by EddieVanHalen View Post

Then please explain me and some others what exactely Dialogue Normalization does as some of us may be a bit lost here.

Dialog normalization was designed to help broadcasters and studios mitigate the various recording levels of programs, and hence the swings in volume.

It does this by measuring the average program level of dialog above or equal to the reference point (-31db..)

Then, when the codec is decoded, the resulting PCM is lowered said amount.. this is done to the entire program, not any single channel.. it is a post decode process, and done in the digital domain..

This is a simple explanation, and doesn't get into the variety of other designs of the technology or decoders (i.e. THX receivers, metadata for dynamic range compression, etc...

Unfortunately, it isn't usually properly measured, and most Dolby encoders, both software and hardware, leave the DN value at the defaults (which is -27/+4.) DTS authoring software has the default value set to -31 (which is essentially bypassed/off.)

What does this mean for you? When you see a DN value on the front of your AVR, or in the menu, and want to listen to it at "reference level" (and know what that is for your AVR) you should raise the master volume up the specified amount to achieve "reference" value.. (THX receivers use a combination of volume display offsets and compensation so you don't have to turn up the volume...)

Please note that dialog normalization exists on both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD codecs.
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post #474 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Jurassic Park limited edition unboxing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwQc...e_gdata_player

Thats the girl from JP. She's 32 now. Wow.

She happens to be a vegetarian.

home theater addict
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post #475 of 1995 Old 09-26-2011, 10:00 PM
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Any word on individual releases?
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post #476 of 1995 Old 09-27-2011, 12:05 AM
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Any word on individual releases?

That will probably happen some time after the individual releases of the Back to the Future films, which Universal still hasn't announced.

PETER JACKSON: The theatrical versions are the definitive versions.
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post #477 of 1995 Old 09-27-2011, 03:05 AM
 
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That will probably happen some time after the individual releases of the Back to the Future films, which Universal still hasn't announced.

They are or in the UK next month (bttf)
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post #478 of 1995 Old 09-27-2011, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

I'm so sick and tired of Universal using these cheap, thin cardboard cases for there biggest franchise (BTTF and now JP). What do these companies have against the regular BD case, this can't save that much money.

Borders went out of business and I went to my local store to buy some fixtures and found a box of roughly 70 empty Blu-ray cases - a mix of single and double cases. They threw it in with a really nice rack I bought. Since then I've been moving the discs from box sets to individual packaging and printing out custom inserts (including stuff like Harmy's Star Wars trilogy!). It not only satisfies my anal-retentive side, but also keeps the box sets from falling apart. I hate accordians.
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post #479 of 1995 Old 09-27-2011, 07:22 AM
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I feel the same way about this Trilogy as I did BTTF. Loved the first movie and was disappointing with the follow-up movies. That said, I can only imagine we will see this uber cheap in Q4 like we did BTTF and I will grab it. Looking forward to reviews.
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post #480 of 1995 Old 09-27-2011, 07:43 AM
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I'm keeping my preorder locked at $49. However, if it ends up filtered like BTTF, I'm canceling in a heartbeat. I want to believe that re-release in theaters is a good indicator of the discs, but I'm not jumping for joy yet.
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