West Side Story: 50th Anniversary Edition - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #151 of 284 Old 10-29-2011, 03:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4oAcAOWF_A

A link to the fade out issue...if in fact this is what all the talk is about.


I'm actually more concerned about the shimmering issue. Hopefully, it will all get fixed.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #152 of 284 Old 10-29-2011, 04:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Fanboyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 527 Post(s)
Liked: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4oAcAOWF_A

A link to the fade out issue...if in fact this is what all the talk is about.


I'm actually more concerned about the shimmering issue. Hopefully, it will all get fixed.

Not so bad, I guess.

LG OLED65B6P. Klipsch: RF82, RC62, RS52, RB61, RP-140SA. SVS PB-U13. Denon 6300H. Oppo 103D. Oppo UPD 203.
Fanboyz is offline  
post #153 of 284 Old 11-07-2011, 02:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I was a little surprised the posts to this thread almost pretty much stopped since I shared the youtube link.

If that's what everyone is going nuts about, I'll live with it till the replacement comes out.

I can understand not fixing the opticals, however, I'm wondering if anyone knows if they will also fix the shimmering on the replacement?


Normally at this time, I'd be asking for screen shots. Though it looks like that's all been taken care of!

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
 
post #154 of 284 Old 11-07-2011, 07:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Saturn94's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

I was a little surprised the posts to this thread almost pretty much stopped since I shared the youtube link.

If that's what everyone is going nuts about, I'll live with it till the replacement comes out.

+1

If this was the only issue, then I also can live with it.

Quote:


I can understand not fixing the opticals, however, I'm wondering if anyone knows if they will also fix the shimmering on the replacement?

It's these issues that have stopped me from purchasing yet. Admittedly, I haven't seen this release first hand, but I don't want to risk getting stuck with a version that has flaws that really bother me and take away from enjoying the movie.

Saturn94 is offline  
post #155 of 284 Old 11-07-2011, 08:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I read where the shimmering had to do with going from the 8K scan to Blu-ray resolution.

If that's true, then I would think it would be a matter of being a little bit more carful (or a different setting with the equipment?) with the new downsizing.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #156 of 284 Old 11-07-2011, 10:06 PM
Senior Member
 
sub24ox7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just resizing will not cause shimmering in ANY way so that is bull.
sub24ox7 is offline  
post #157 of 284 Old 11-08-2011, 01:19 PM
Member
 
P Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 95
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

I was a little surprised the posts to this thread almost pretty much stopped since I shared the youtube link.

If that's what everyone is going nuts about, I'll live with it till the replacement comes out.

I can understand not fixing the opticals, however, I'm wondering if anyone knows if they will also fix the shimmering on the replacement?


Normally at this time, I'd be asking for screen shots. Though it looks like that's all been taken care of!

Why not fix the opticals? Why not fix all of the problems and do WSS right?
P Ross is offline  
post #158 of 284 Old 11-08-2011, 01:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Fanboyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 527 Post(s)
Liked: 162
It shameful that they didn't use the 6 track soundtrack stems to work from, it shows that the higher the profile of the release the bigger the screw ups seem to be.,,

LG OLED65B6P. Klipsch: RF82, RC62, RS52, RB61, RP-140SA. SVS PB-U13. Denon 6300H. Oppo 103D. Oppo UPD 203.
Fanboyz is offline  
post #159 of 284 Old 11-09-2011, 02:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
skibum5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub24ox7 View Post

Just resizing will not cause shimmering in ANY way so that is bull.

I haven't seen the disc so I don't know what sort of shimmering but poor resizing 100% absolutely can cause shimmering! Resizing is not a simple matter, without properly filtering you get aliasing and if you get aliasing for moving frames then you sure can get shimmer, etc.
skibum5000 is offline  
post #160 of 284 Old 11-09-2011, 03:15 PM
Senior Member
 
sub24ox7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well any decent resizing algorithm will not cause aliasing like spline or lanczos or even bicubic and Alisiasing or jaggies is much differnt from shimmering imo.
sub24ox7 is offline  
post #161 of 284 Old 11-12-2011, 11:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Ross View Post

Why not fix the opticals? Why not fix all of the problems and do WSS right?


Because a quick fix on the fade to black would not be all that hard (or costly) to fix.

Also, if the shimmering is caused by poor resizing, then that could simply be fixed with a more carful transfer from the digital master.

The opticals I'm afraid would mean much more detailed work and lots of money. Opticals usually look different than the rest of the move, however in this thread, there have been those who said they remember the movie during it's original showing where the opticals didn't look any different than the rest of the movie.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #162 of 284 Old 11-12-2011, 01:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Penton-Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub24ox7 View Post

Well any decent resizing algorithm will not cause aliasing like spline or lanczos or even bicubic and Alisiasing or jaggies is much differnt from shimmering imo.

Well, theoretically, as well as practically, as you’ll soon see….when you play the clip, downsampling can indeed cause aliasing and as skibum5000 says above, “if you get aliasing for moving frames then you sure can get shimmer, etc”.

I’m not making excuses for this suboptimal appearance, but rather, noting that unless one is very careful, it is possible even for experienced post houses [which have access to all FIR-type Filters (Sinc, Mitchell and Lanczos, etc.) as well as Cubic-type Filters (BSpline, Cubic, Gaussian, etc.) for which I feel certain Light Iron does (http://lightirondigital.com/) ] for it to be possible for these type artifacts to occur.

Especially relevant to the notion of how easily this can happen, is that in this particular case, I think Red used this particular clip for a time as one of their showreels. If you look closely, I believe it is fairly easy to identify extensive aliasing artifacts (along with some slight shimmering or strobing, if you will) in the welder’s shirt which is secondary to downconverting the ‘4k’ material to HD….
http://red.cachefly.net/M-X-REEL.mov
^
And that’s from a company that prides itself on Picture Quality so, I can’t see this clip as having been produced in a cavalier fashion.

Still haven't seen West Side Story though, as I'm more of a Mutiny on the Bounty fan.
Penton-Man is offline  
post #163 of 284 Old 11-12-2011, 11:53 PM
jvc
Senior Member
 
jvc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 487
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

That's actually not funny. Every person looks like a cutout.


Not the smooth look we should expect from film.

In thw words of the late Ike Turner - "what the problem is?"
jvc is offline  
post #164 of 284 Old 11-13-2011, 05:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Oliver Klohs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Posts: 2,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post

Well, theoretically, as well as practically, as you'll soon see.when you play the clip, downsampling can indeed cause aliasing and as skibum5000 says above, if you get aliasing for moving frames then you sure can get shimmer, etc.

I'm not making excuses for this suboptimal appearance, but rather, noting that unless one is very careful, it is possible even for experienced post houses [which have access to all FIR-type Filters (Sinc, Mitchell and Lanczos, etc.) as well as Cubic-type Filters (BSpline, Cubic, Gaussian, etc.) for which I feel certain Light Iron does (http://lightirondigital.com/) ] for it to be possible for these type artifacts to occur.

Especially relevant to the notion of how easily this can happen, is that in this particular case, I think Red used this particular clip for a time as one of their showreels. If you look closely, I believe it is fairly easy to identify extensive aliasing artifacts (along with some slight shimmering or strobing, if you will) in the welder's shirt which is secondary to downconverting the 4k' material to HD.
http://red.cachefly.net/M-X-REEL.mov
^
And that's from a company that prides itself on Picture Quality so, I can't see this clip as having been produced in a cavalier fashion.

Still haven't seen West Side Story though, as I'm more of a Mutiny on the Bounty fan.

Thanks for the link, is the demo reel also available in higher resolutions than 720p?

Not having seen West Side Story I will say that it should be mandatory to use little to no filtering when going down from higher resolutions for starters and then to go through the movie in question and look for scenes where selective filtering for that particular scene might be in order to avoid the artefacts mentioned. That way we would be getting the best of both worlds as obviously the results of the filtering and the subsequent sharpening in Baraka where not to everybodys liking either, certainly not to mine!

Also a big fan of the might Ultra Panavision 70 Mutiny on the Bounty By looking at this and other forums it seems that Warner would be right in assuming that there is little interest in this title and therefore could feel justified for spending very little money on the Blu-Ray release. They just released it under the radar and did not even wait for the 50th anniversary!
Oliver Klohs is offline  
post #165 of 284 Old 11-14-2011, 12:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 25
My calendar says I should be getting this tomorrow.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #166 of 284 Old 11-14-2011, 02:48 PM
 
Mr. Snigggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 204
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

My calendar says I should be getting this tomorrow.

Tomorrow is release day, isn't it?
Mr. Snigggles is offline  
post #167 of 284 Old 11-14-2011, 08:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Snigggles View Post

Tomorrow is release day, isn't it?

I think so. Usually I see these movies on my door step (or mailbox) on the release day.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #168 of 284 Old 11-15-2011, 05:14 AM
Member
 
Robert Harris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

I read where the shimmering had to do with going from the 8K scan to Blu-ray resolution.

If that's true, then I would think it would be a matter of being a little bit more carful (or a different setting with the equipment?) with the new downsizing.

WSS was not an 8k scan.

RAH
Robert Harris is offline  
post #169 of 284 Old 11-15-2011, 11:37 AM
Member
 
vincent89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The master of WWS is 4k. I read this in a article about FotoKem.
vincent89 is offline  
post #170 of 284 Old 11-15-2011, 08:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
PRO-630HD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,577
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Were there alot of color filters used in this film or is it faded source material?
PRO-630HD is offline  
post #171 of 284 Old 11-16-2011, 09:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
skibum5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

I will say that it should be mandatory to use little to no filtering when going down from higher resolutions for starters and then to go through the movie in question and look for scenes where selective filtering for that particular scene might be in order to avoid the artefacts mentioned. That way we would be getting the best of both worlds as obviously the results of the filtering and the subsequent sharpening in Baraka where not to everybodys liking either, certainly not to mine!


No, filtering is absolutely mandatory when down sampling otherwise you get an utter mess, it's bad enough for stills but 100x for movies. So using little to no filtering would be a horror story when going from say an 8k or 4k scan to 1920x1080. BTW, don't confuse the term filtering with digital noise reduction and making everyone look like waxface.

An ideal down sample is a tricky thing, usually a complicated filter combined with very modest sharpening at the right stage. Each combination has trade offs. I forgot offhand the full name of my favorite. I'm about to use it again in a still viewer and can post back in a bit.

But again, don't confuse the term filtering with DNR. People on this forum way too often go on about heaving filtering, which is very vague and could mean a ton of different things, when they are usually talking specifically about heavy DNR.

All that said, I haven't seen this yet, so I have no idea what the shimmering is, it could be from something else, who knows what, although poor downscaling can certainly cause it and is a common cause.
skibum5000 is offline  
post #172 of 284 Old 11-16-2011, 10:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Well, I've had my copy here for a while and I probably wont get a chance to watch it till Thanksgiving. So if anyone has their copy and has seen it, let us know!

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #173 of 284 Old 11-17-2011, 12:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mhafner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 189 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Thanks for the link, is the demo reel also available in higher resolutions than 720p?

Have not seen a >= 1080p version so far.
mhafner is offline  
post #174 of 284 Old 11-18-2011, 04:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Oliver Klohs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Posts: 2,540
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

Have not seen a >= 1080p version so far.

Too bad, it is very clear that 720p is not sufficient to display video with that amount of detail.
Oliver Klohs is offline  
post #175 of 284 Old 11-18-2011, 05:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Fanboyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 527 Post(s)
Liked: 162
Got the Target exclusive Digibook...

LG OLED65B6P. Klipsch: RF82, RC62, RS52, RB61, RP-140SA. SVS PB-U13. Denon 6300H. Oppo 103D. Oppo UPD 203.
Fanboyz is offline  
post #176 of 284 Old 11-19-2011, 08:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Of California
Posts: 5,505
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 285
FWIW, Fry's has this for $12.99

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is offline  
post #177 of 284 Old 11-19-2011, 08:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
smudge981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,796
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 207
Detectives are currently going over some "new" information concerning Natalie Woods' drowning back in 1981. Man, what some studios won't do to boost sales (and yes, there's a man on the grassy knoll, too.)

"I am NOT suffering from insanity... I happen to be enjoying myself!"

smudge981 is offline  
post #178 of 284 Old 11-19-2011, 11:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I'm getting the impression not too many people bought into this title like they did with "Ten Commandments" and "Ben Hur" or even "Sounds Like Music" simply because AFTER the Blu-rays were released, there were lots of posts about the quality and many comments about what was right or wrong about the quality of the transfer.


I simply don't see the same kind of action going on with WWS.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #179 of 284 Old 11-19-2011, 06:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
Strevlac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 552
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I'm watching this right now, about 45 minutes in. I have noticed hardly any shimmering/moire issues. Those of you who have reported these problems, can you make sure that your BD players are set to output 1080/24p and your monitors are set to 1:1 pixel mapping and report back?
Strevlac is offline  
post #180 of 284 Old 11-19-2011, 07:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strevlac View Post

I have noticed hardly any shimmering/moire issues.

Hardly or none?

If "Hardly," does it take away from the movie itself?

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Blu-ray Software

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off