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post #91 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Hiya Rob!

I should have been a bit more clear. I meant as a mainstream software delivery format. I still know so many people who own HDTVs and have no interest in Blu Ray. Many of them have 32-46" sets and sit 10 feet or so away so they don't notice much difference. They DO notice a big difference between 4x3 stretched letterboxed SD tv though.

Also having to deal with firmware upgrades, hooking it up to the Internet is too much and not worth it for them.
My sister's family has a nice 46" panny 1080p plasma. I bought them a Sony bd player and a 25' HDMI cable so my brother in law could hook it up from across the room and 20 months later they still haven't hooked it up!
DVD is dying too. Unfortunately streaming and on demand are the future. Netflix knows this. Thats why they are killing off their DVD business.

Sucks but true

Hey, don't misunderstand me. I am old school and love discs but most people I meet under 30 don't care

Yep, I've had similar experience unfortunately.
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post #92 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

What was wrong with Raging Bull to begin with? Very good transfer. The more recent Warner stuff is fine.

Well, there is an odd artifact through most of the movie, a fairly wide vertical band that's a bit brighter than the rest of the image. But it was mostly just an example of a re-release where they didn't improve anything on the actual movie, only added a few extras.
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post #93 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by buddywhite View Post

So, from a technical view, you can have 4k on blu-ray, if you have enough disc space available? You don't need a whole new format for the next generation of home cinema?

Obviously you would need a whole new player and I would think 200gb discs at a minimum.
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post #94 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

Obviously you would need a whole new player and I would think 200gb discs at a minimum.

I can see it now: Blu-ray 4K or BD4K.

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post #95 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 10:10 AM
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post #96 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 10:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post


Obviously you would need a whole new player and I would think 200gb discs at a minimum.

Not at all, you could use the 100gb discs available now.
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post #97 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Not at all, you could use the 100gb discs available now.

... but, in marketing terms, there's no point in doing it (and, actually some pretty good reasons not to).

I don't feel special...
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post #98 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Not at all, you could use the 100gb discs available now.

Just curious....would the avg BD player available commercially today play a 100 GB disc properly? Would FW updates be required?

Money does not buy happiness. It can, however, buy you a giant boat that you can pull up alongside happiness. - David Lee Roth

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post #99 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

Just curious....would the avg BD player available commercially today play a 100 GB disc properly? Would FW updates be required?

Even if they could address the additional data on the disc, existing players can't output the higher-than-Blu-ray data-rates that would be required.

I don't feel special...
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post #100 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 10:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post


Just curious....would the avg BD player available commercially today play a 100 GB disc properly? Would FW updates be required?

The ones you can buy right now? Some do some don't, the newer the player the more chance there is.
If you are talking the 4k standard, problem would be the codec used.
AVC and VC-1 may be too bloated.
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post #101 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

If you are talking the 4k standard, problem would be the codec used.

The problem would be throughput (or, rather, lack thereof).

I don't feel special...
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post #102 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 10:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by spectator View Post


The problem would be throughput (or, rather, lack thereof).

Again depends on the player, but yes.

This is interesting, it is something that needs to be done with a better source:

http://www.hardbat.com/puggo/grandePics.html
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post #103 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by spectator View Post

Even if they could address the additional data on the disc, existing players can't output the higher-than-Blu-ray data-rates that would be required.

Your right, 40 mbps for video isn't going to cut it. I would easily think north of 100 mbps.
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post #104 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

I would easily think north of 100 mbps.

Yeah, but you also think 200GB would be necessary. Just like 1080p doesn't require six times the bandwidth of 480p, 4K does not require four times the bandwidth of 1080p.

This is all kind of silly talk, though, because unless I'm really overestimating them, I don't think the CE companies are foolish enough to release a 4K consumer disc format any time soon.

I don't feel special...
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post #105 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 02:34 PM
 
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"There will only be one. And it won't be what I would call the "rough cut", it'll be the "final cut". The other one will be some sort of interesting artifact that people will look at and say, "There was an earlier draft of this." The same thing happens with plays and earlier drafts of books. In essence, films never get finished, they get abandoned. At some point, you're dragged off the picture kicking and screaming while somebody says, "Okay, it's done." That isn't really the way it should work. Occasionally, [you can] go back and get your cut of the video out there, which I did on both American Graffiti and THX 1138; that's the place where it will live forever. So what ends up being important in my mind is what the DVD version is going to look like, because that's what everybody is going to remember. The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won't last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you'll be able to project it on a 20' by 40' screen with perfect quality. I think it's the director's prerogative, not the studio's to go back and reinvent a movie."

George Lucas, "An Expanded Universe", American Cinematographer magazine, February 1997.
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post #106 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 03:07 PM
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Glad to know that Xylon is still alive.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #107 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 03:20 PM
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I don't object to Lucas' tinkering with films he co-wrote, produced, and co-directed.
And for the purposed of a 1080p disc these transfers were fine. However the OT needs to be rescanned to 4k or better if Lucas wants to theatrically present them again in any capacity.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
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post #108 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post

Yeah, but you also think 200GB would be necessary. Just like 1080p doesn't require six times the bandwidth of 480p, 4K does not require four times the bandwidth of 1080p.

This is all kind of silly talk, though, because unless I'm really overestimating them, I don't think the CE companies are foolish enough to release a 4K consumer disc format any time soon.

To make money they would and that would mean profits for future 4K restorations.
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post #109 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 03:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz
I don't object to Lucas' tinkering with films he co-wrote, produced, and co-directed.
And for the purposed of a 1080p disc these transfers were fine. However the OT needs to be rescanned to 4k or better if Lucas wants to theatrically present them again in any capacity.
He needed to master the discs again and he didn't, he spends less to make more.
Don't forget Pepsi and others paid for a lot of the 90's star wars stuff
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post #110 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

I don't object to Lucas' tinkering with films he co-wrote, produced, and co-directed.
And for the purposed of a 1080p disc these transfers were fine. However the OT needs to be rescanned to 4k or better if Lucas wants to theatrically present them again in any capacity.

Agreed and the CGI still sticks out like a sore thumb. It needs to be redone in 4K. I really question whether people will see these in the theater again being the prequel trilogy simply doesn't have the following or impact the originals did. I wouldn't be surprised if next Feb. episode 1 tanks in the theater.
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post #111 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by spectator View Post

Yeah, but you also think 200GB would be necessary. Just like 1080p doesn't require six times the bandwidth of 480p, 4K does not require four times the bandwidth of 1080p.

This is all kind of silly talk, though, because unless I'm really overestimating them, I don't think the CE companies are foolish enough to release a 4K consumer disc format any time soon.

My new minimum specs are a 100gb - 200gb discs and 110 mbps max for video at a minimum.
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post #112 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 03:54 PM
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Are any of the 3-D bluray discs 100gb or are they all BD-50's?
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post #113 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 04:47 PM
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The DVD SE looks pretty good! I think I'll stick with those. "Yeeeeeeessssssssss".

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post #114 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 05:53 PM
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I want these on BD but I won't accept what he's done to them. It's either the theatrical releases or nothing for me. Sucks but when I look at Bladerunner I can't accept that he won't give us the option of watching these films they way they were originally presented, sans SE and later nonsense.

On topic thanks Xylon, the comparisons are at least interesting in that while the films look better than they ever have there definitely is room for improvement.
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post #115 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

To make money they would and that would mean profits for future 4K restorations.

No, to make money, they would need to not.

There's barely a 4K pipeline in Hollywood for production, let alone home video.

Now... show me the number of people who can even tell the difference between a 4K image and a well-produced Blu-ray (which, for a large proportion of Hollywood's catalog will only ever be a negligible difference, at best).

Within that group, show me the people who care enough about that relatively minuscule difference to invest lots of money in it.

Within that group, show me the people who have the money to invest and have space enough to install equipment which would be able to take advantage of that difference (we're pretty much talking 10' + screens here).

That's your near-term market for 4K media.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the scale, you've got lots of column inches in the popular press about how "You just spent all your money to upgrade to fancy new Blu-ray and now they want you to upgrade again!" and the kind of consumer-enthusiasm-killing potential confusion in the marketplace that stalled HD media a few years ago and CE companies are too wise to want to risk again.

What's the incentive?

I don't feel special...
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post #116 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 06:58 PM
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Are any of the 3-D bluray discs 100gb or are they all BD-50's?

Everything currently available including all BD 3D's are 50GB.
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post #117 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 08:31 PM
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So can machines even read a 100gb disc?

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
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post #118 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post

Now... show me the number of people who can even tell the difference between a 4K image and a well-produced Blu-ray (which, for a large proportion of Hollywood's catalog will only ever be a negligible difference, at best).

Within that group, show me the people who care enough about that relatively minuscule difference to invest lots of money in it.

Within that group, show me the people who have the money to invest and have space enough to install equipment which would be able to take advantage of that difference (we're pretty much talking 10' + screens here).

A physical 4K home video format in the near future would not stand a chance at success. If given the choice, most people would prefer to have an edge-enhanced image without grain that (most importantly of all) fills the screen .
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post #119 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post

No, to make money, they would need to not.

There's barely a 4K pipeline in Hollywood for production, let alone home video.

Now... show me the number of people who can even tell the difference between a 4K image and a well-produced Blu-ray (which, for a large proportion of Hollywood's catalog will only ever be a negligible difference, at best).

Within that group, show me the people who care enough about that relatively minuscule difference to invest lots of money in it.

Within that group, show me the people who have the money to invest and have space enough to install equipment which would be able to take advantage of that difference (we're pretty much talking 10' + screens here).

That's your near-term market for 4K media.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the scale, you've got lots of column inches in the popular press about how "You just spent all your money to upgrade to fancy new Blu-ray and now they want you to upgrade again!" and the kind of consumer-enthusiasm-killing potential confusion in the marketplace that stalled HD media a few years ago and CE companies are too wise to want to risk again.

What's the incentive?

Toshiba will have a 4K 55in. display in Europe out by xmas. http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/tvs/toshib...view-50005001/
Onkyo products already all have 4K converters. The Olympics will be shot in 8K. 4K displays eliminate the need for glasses with 3-D!!! There are a ton of films mastered in 4K already! To be clear there are far more 4K mastered films than 3-D bluray titles companies are trying to launch. 4K scans are getting cheaper as the days go by and since 35mm film is native 4K this is obviously where the future of film restorations is going. There are already a few 6K masters out there. Many of them done back in the days of dvd. Warner started doing 4K before hddvd even came out. With the exception of Lionsgate and possibly Universal all major films and classics are getting 4K masters.

4K bluray will be a niche product no different than laserdisc. It will never be a mass marketed product like bluray. 4K displays will easily happen as companies need to make money on product and 1080p displays are already ridiculously cheap. The economy more than anything will push 4K display so companies can make money again.

Go to post 186 to read more.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post20904526
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post #120 of 282 Old 09-20-2011, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you'll be able to project it on a 20' by 40' screen with perfect quality.

Jesus. Lucas is such a nincompoop. This guy is an active and hostile enemy of cinema, IMO.
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