Star Wars comparison *PIX* and *VID* - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 03:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Watch in 1080p fullscreen playback.

The number of frames between the TE DVD and blu-ray in the opening scene does not match so I have to spend more time for them to sync. The workflow in working on video is a lot harder than I thought. I did this to stop the whinings about the static images posted is not "accurate" because its not moving.

Pictures and video say a thousand words better than a 1000 word review











Alterations is not *all* that bad

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post #2 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 03:45 AM - Thread Starter
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The 1989 Special Widescreen Edition laserdisc . . . .

The 1993 Definitive Collection laserdisc . . . .

The 1994 "THX" VHS release . . . .

The 1995 "THX" "Faces" Widescreen Edition laserdisc . . . .

The 1997 "THX" Laserdisc Special Edition Trilogy . . . .

The 2004 "THX" Star Wars Trilogy DVD . . . .

The 2006 Original Theatrical version DVD . . . .

The 2011 latest version blu-ray . . . .

I own all this home video releases and in the future I will buy another version probably a rescanned, remastered 4K release. I do agree to some degree that constant tinkering by George Lucas has made this movies a "trainwreck". Personally it is a dissappointment that he wont give us a choice to watch the original theatrical version in HD. There is lot more to say but lets just concentrate on the overall PQ of the 1977 film in blu-ray. It is a substantial upgrade in PQ and AQ. Everything just looks so much better. I have never seen Star Wars this sharp and detailed. The DVD and Laserdisc looks so bad that I wonder why would you even consider buying them now. It's true some of them have the TE version but can you really enjoy watching them after seing the movie in HD?
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post #3 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I will only post thumbnails temporarily to control bandwidth.

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post #4 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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post #7 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 03:47 AM - Thread Starter
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post #8 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 03:47 AM - Thread Starter
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How did R2D2 get out of that hiding spot this time?
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post #9 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 03:47 AM - Thread Starter
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post #10 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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DVD TE 2006

DVD 2004

Cinemax Mpeg-2

File size: 8.12 GB

Bitrate: 8.63 Mbps


Code:
Sequence Summary:

File Size Processed: 8.12 GB, Play Time: 02h:04m:41s
1920 x 1080, 29.97 fps (24.36 fps Telecine), 14.00 Mbps (8.63 Mbps Average).
Average Video Quality: 43.24 KB/Frame, 0.17 Bits/Pixel.
AC3 Audio: 3/2 Channels (L, C, R, SL, SR) + LFE, 48.0 kHz, 384 kbps.
Dialog Normalization: -27.0 dB, Center Mix Level: -3.0 dB, Surround Mix Level: -3.0 dB
0 of 182223 video frames found with errors.
0 of 233808 audio frames found with errors.
0 corrupted video bytes in file.
0.000000 seconds of video timestamp gaps.
0.000000 seconds of audio timestamp gaps.

End of Log
Blu-ray file size: 40 GB

Bitrate: 33.50 mbps AVC


Code:
                                                                                 

                               Total   Video                                     

        
Title                                                           Codec   Length  

Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                 

         Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- 

--------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------               

         ---------------------
00800.MPLS                                                      AVC     2:04:44 

41,562,218,496  48,684,405,713  44.42   33.50   DTS-HD Master 6.1 4069Kbps 

(48kHz/24-bit) DD AC3 5.1 448Kbps


DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     A_NEW_HOPE
Disc Size:      48,684,405,713 bytes
Protection:     BD+
BD-Java:        Yes
BDInfo:         0.5.6

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00800.MPLS
Length:                 2:04:44 (h:m:s)
Size:                   41,562,218,496 bytes
Total Bitrate:          44.42 Mbps

Angle 1 Length:         0:02:26 (h:m:s) / 2:04:44 (h:m:s)
Angle 1 Size:           780,091,392 bytes / 41,534,613,504 bytes
Angle 1 Total Bitrate:  42.48 Mbps / 44.39 Mbps

Angle 2 Length:         0:02:26 (h:m:s) / 2:04:44 (h:m:s)
Angle 2 Size:           778,137,600 bytes / 41,532,659,712 bytes
Angle 2 Total Bitrate:  42.38 Mbps / 44.39 Mbps

Angle 3 Length:         0:02:26 (h:m:s) / 2:04:44 (h:m:s)
Angle 3 Size:           778,254,336 bytes / 41,532,776,448 bytes
Angle 3 Total Bitrate:  42.38 Mbps / 44.39 Mbps

Angle 4 Length:         0:02:26 (h:m:s) / 2:04:44 (h:m:s)
Angle 4 Size:           779,175,936 bytes / 41,533,698,048 bytes
Angle 4 Total Bitrate:  42.43 Mbps / 44.39 Mbps

Angle 5 Length:         0:02:26 (h:m:s) / 2:04:44 (h:m:s)
Angle 5 Size:           760,264,704 bytes / 41,514,786,816 bytes
Angle 5 Total Bitrate:  41.40 Mbps / 44.37 Mbps

Angle 6 Length:         0:02:26 (h:m:s) / 2:04:44 (h:m:s)
Angle 6 Size:           761,481,216 bytes / 41,516,003,328 bytes
Angle 6 Total Bitrate:  41.47 Mbps / 44.37 Mbps

Angle 7 Length:         0:02:26 (h:m:s) / 2:04:44 (h:m:s)
Angle 7 Size:           760,664,064 bytes / 41,515,186,176 bytes
Angle 7 Total Bitrate:  41.43 Mbps / 44.37 Mbps

Angle 8 Length:         0:02:26 (h:m:s) / 2:04:44 (h:m:s)
Angle 8 Size:           749,672,448 bytes / 41,504,194,560 bytes
Angle 8 Total Bitrate:  40.83 Mbps / 44.36 Mbps

All Angles Length:      2:24:19 (h:m:s)
All Angles Size:        47,709,960,192 bytes
All Angles Bitrate:     44.07 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        33502 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High 

Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 AVC Video (1)    625 (31864) kbps    1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High 

Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 AVC Video (2)    623 (31763) kbps    1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High 

Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 AVC Video (3)    623 (31769) kbps    1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High 

Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 AVC Video (4)    624 (31817) kbps    1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High 

Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 AVC Video (5)    605 (30829) kbps    1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High 

Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 AVC Video (6)    606 (30893) kbps    1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High 

Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 AVC Video (7)    605 (30850) kbps    1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High 

Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 AVC Video (8)    594 (30277) kbps    1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High 

Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         4069 kbps       6.1 / 48 kHz / 

4069 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 6.1-ES / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             English         448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 

448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             Spanish         448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 

448 kbps
DTS Audio                       French          768 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 

768 kbps / 24-bit
Dolby Digital Audio             Portuguese      448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 

448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         224 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 

224 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         224 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 

224 kbps
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post #11 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 04:12 AM
 
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Return of the avs Jedi, welcome back sir.
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post #12 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 06:49 AM
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Thanks Xylon! Was waiting for these!!!!!
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post #13 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 06:56 AM
 
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No MPEG 4 TV version? I love how comprehensive this comparison is.
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post #14 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 07:00 AM
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Any laserdisc comparisons?
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post #15 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 07:01 AM
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Thanks for your time and effort xylon. always appreciated.
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post #16 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I did 10 *VID* comparisons for YouTube.

I can't feel my arms
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post #17 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

How did R2D2 get out of that hiding spot this time?

How did he get into it?
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post #18 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 07:10 AM
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Very nice, do you have the premierehd caps for comparison as it is very close to the blu-ray.
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post #19 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 07:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

I did 10 *VID* comparisons for YouTube.

I can't feel my arms

The nasty blue green tint on the doomed video is appalling
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post #20 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 07:57 AM
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How glad am I Xylon is on AVS...

BIG thanks!

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post #21 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post
There is lot more to say but lets just concentrate on the overall PQ of the 1977 film in blu-ray. It is a substantial upgrade in PQ and AQ. Everything just looks so much better. I have never seen Star Wars this sharp and detailed.
I can't agree with you here at all! These are hardly a massive upgrade in PQ! These are 1.9K scans done 7 years ago. I would call them moderate upgrades at best. Kind of like bluray when it first launched and they are using 2004 HD scans here. I own a ton of blurays that have far more detail in the frame. The dvd's which are some of the most stunning the format has ever released and hold up far better then they should when comparing them to the blurays.

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ess=#vergleich

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ess=#vergleich

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ess=#vergleich

This is a massive upgrade in PQ!

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

Lowry titles
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

Lowry Bond titles done at the same time as Star Wars in 2004-5. The difference in detail is pretty staggering.
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

Few would argue how much better Bond women look in 4K
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

Look at how clear the detail in the rugs on the wall becomes.
http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=0#vergleich

I guess some of my greatest frustration is that for a dvd set that made $100 million in it's first day of release dunbass Lucas was too cheap to do 4K scans and he redid the vast majority of effects work from the 97 SE's anyway in 2004. If he had done this I would be very satisfied right now. I rented episodes 4-6 on dvd and compared them to the blurays with audio synched switching back and forth and the difference should have been far greater especially considering films of this importance and profit margin.
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post #22 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 01:12 PM
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Even downscaled to 720p, the opening video's comparison shows more detail from the BD (as it should).

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post #23 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 01:25 PM
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I'm not enthusiastic about the color grading on the 2004 transfers and it doesn't appear they've done much with them, but I think the detail is fine. The lenses back then were not as sharp as they are now. But next time around they should keep it away from Lowry (Lucas should get Spielberg's guys to do it) and their phoney grain, something horribly digital is going on in that Tatooine shot with the droids.
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post #24 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
I can't agree with you here at all! These are hardly a missive upgrade in PQ! These are 1.9K scans done 7 years ago. I would call them moderate upgrades at best. Kind of like bluray when it first launched and they are using 2004 HD scans here. I own a ton of blurays that have far more detail in the frame. The dvd's which are some of the most stunning the format has ever released and hold up far better then they should when comparing them to the blurays.
The Star Wars comparisons are of the same masters while the others are comparing to different masters so yes there will be a bigger difference. All in all I think the Star Wars films look great and there is a lot of finer detail even in the comparisons posted above. I would like to see the same comparisons of the other movies shown above against an SD version from the same masters used for the Bluray releases then that would be telling.

Later everyone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041
I'm not enthusiastic about the color grading on the 2004 transfers and it doesn't appear they've done much with them, but I think the detail is fine. The lenses back then were not as sharp as they are now. But next time around they should keep it away from Lowry (Lucas should get Spielberg's guys to do it) and their phoney grain, something horribly digital is going on in that Tatooine shot with the droids.
Laserpacific should do every remaster, them or Sony
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post #26 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Laserpacific should do every remaster, them or Sony

Did Laserpacific also do Close Encounters or was that Sony?

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post #27 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianSallot View Post

The Star Wars comparisons are of the same masters while the others are comparing to different masters so yes there will be a bigger difference. All in all I think the Star Wars films look great and there is a lot of finer detail even in the comparisons posted above. I would like to see the same comparisons of the other movies shown above against an SD version from the same masters used for the Bluray releases then that would be telling.

Later everyone

The Bond titles are using the same 4K scans used for the UE dvd's in 2005 done by Lowry or the same master. Thunderball bluray got a pumped up color pallette to match the theatrical prints, but the scan is the same so the master was tweaked with improved colors. Dr. No and FRWL are the identical master on dvd and bluray as shown in the comparisons.
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post #28 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 02:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post


Did Laserpacific also do Close Encounters or was that Sony?

Good question, Laserpacific did Hook and that is a Sony title
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post #29 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

No MPEG 4 TV version? I love how comprehensive this comparison is.

I will probably include the H.264 version later. Its just taking way too much time for me to work on the videos too.
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post #30 of 282 Old 09-18-2011, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

I can't agree with you here at all! These are hardly a massive upgrade in PQ! These are 1.9K scans done 7 years ago. I would call them moderate upgrades at best. Kind of like bluray when it first launched and they are using 2004 HD scans here. I own a ton of blurays that have far more detail in the frame. The dvd's which are some of the most stunning the format has ever released and hold up far better then they should when comparing them to the blurays.



I guess some of my greatest frustration is that for a dvd set that made $100 million in it's first day of release dunbass Lucas was too cheap to do 4K scans and he redid the vast majority of effects work from the 97 SE's anyway in 2004. If he had done this I would be very satisfied right now. I rented episodes 4-6 on dvd and compared them to the blurays with audio synched switching back and forth and the difference should have been far greater especially considering films of this importance and profit margin.

I understand where you coming from. I am comparing basically what PQ upgrade the blu-ray is from the non-anamorphic original theatrical DVD that some claiming that these are the preferred version and that playing them on a upscaling DVD will make it look "not that bad".
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