Experiencing audio dropouts on Star Wars? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Audio or video issues with Star Wars? Please select your player and receiver.
Player: Panasonic 0 0%
Player: Pioneer 0 0%
Player: Samsung 0 0%
Player: Oppo 0 0%
Player: PS3 1 100.00%
Player: Other 0 0%
Receiver: Pioneer 0 0%
Receiver: Denon 0 0%
Receiver: Onkyo 0 0%
Receiver: Other 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 1. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-23-2011, 01:04 PM
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Are these all older model receivers having issues?

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:13 PM
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First few discs, I had no audio issues. Now I do. I wouldn't describe it as audio dropoff. It's more that I get very little rear content in bitstreaming mode.

Panasonic BDT110
Denon 2112ci
6.1 setup

We listened to IV and I without issues, and then I ran Audyssey for a speaker that was moved, and lost rear speaker sound. I fixed the Audyssey setting, and sound still appeared to be turned off. However, using IV as my test disc, I discovered that it was not a total loss of rear sound on bitstreaming mode. Rather, it was infrequent sound for brief intervals. Rear speaker sound doesn't start up when the movie does, there's no rear sound for the text scroll or opening scene. Rear speaker kicks in at chapter 3, approx times 1:57-2:12, 2:29-2:37, and 3:12-3:17. I skipped a few chapters and heard more rear speaker sounds, still infrequent and of short duration with Denon movie button on DTS-HD Mstr. If Denon movie setting is Multi Ch In, there's rear sound all the time, but it sounds like the front sound being sent the rear plus what came to rear speaker on DTS-HD Mstr. Switching to PCM sounds similar, more like an artificial mix rather than being surrounded by sound, as it felt the first viewing when everything seemed to be working. Maybe I still have a setting wrong, I'll be playing around more this weekend. I went through a lot of settings, and maybe I didn't write it down correctly, but at one point I thought full rear sound had returned. When I chapter skipped to the spot again, the rear speaker was quiet except for those few rear effects. A few people mentioned audio troubles after they used chapter skip, so I'll be doing more testing.

For those of you with rear speaker(s) and no audio issues bitstreaming, do you hear rear sound all the time, or just occasionally?
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

Gerry,
The Onkyo TX-NR905 had a bug in the TI DTS Decoder DSP programming. There was a firmware flash that was released a couple of years ago which flashed the new programming which fixed the bug. It was a .wav file which was installed by connecting a CD player to the optical port 1 and playing it.

Did you have this done? It might fix your problem. After getting the DTS bomb on Star Wars, I found out that my early production run of the TX-NR906 still had the faulty DSP and had to reflash it as well. I have not yet had the chance to test to see if the update fixed the Star Wars issue.

If you did not have the DSP updated, you will need to contact Onkyo as the update on the 906 is not the same as the 905. Hope this helps...

Hi Jon,

Yes, I very much recall doing that update when the DTS bomb was first discovered and I never had the bomb go off until the SW disc. I sent a trouble report online and just got an e-mail telling me to call them. I'm on hold with them right now - hopefully it won't take too long to talk to a human. I know they won't be able to do anything immediately but once enough people contact them maybe they'll have a firmware update like the first one which will correct the problem.

We shall see!!!

Gerry
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:33 PM
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I apologize if you took offense to my posts, I did not mean it as an attack towards you and I hope you did not perceive it as such.

Nah, no offense taken. Just a little frustrating to be told something one day only to have it reversed the next. But honestly, I think having the update available and managed here (on avsforum) as an unofficial "proceed at your own risk" type of thing is a good way to go. Those who don't want to take the receiver out of commission for the amount of time it takes to get the update installed from a service center will have another option. And hopefully avsforum readers are a bit more technically savvy than the average Joe and less likely to brick their receivers.

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Old 09-23-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

First few discs, I had no audio issues. Now I do. I wouldn't describe it as audio dropoff. It's more that I get very little rear content in bitstreaming mode.

Panasonic BDT110
Denon 2112ci
6.1 setup

We listened to IV and I without issues, and then I ran Audyssey for a speaker that was moved, and lost rear speaker sound. I fixed the Audyssey setting, and sound still appeared to be turned off. However, using IV as my test disc, I discovered that it was not a total loss of rear sound on bitstreaming mode. Rather, it was infrequent sound for brief intervals. Rear speaker sound doesn't start up when the movie does, there's no rear sound for the text scroll or opening scene. Rear speaker kicks in at chapter 3, approx times 1:57-2:12, 2:29-2:37, and 3:12-3:17. I skipped a few chapters and heard more rear speaker sounds, still infrequent and of short duration with Denon movie button on DTS-HD Mstr. If Denon movie setting is Multi Ch In, there's rear sound all the time, but it sounds like the front sound being sent the rear plus what came to rear speaker on DTS-HD Mstr. Switching to PCM sounds similar, more like an artificial mix rather than being surrounded by sound, as it felt the first viewing when everything seemed to be working. Maybe I still have a setting wrong, I'll be playing around more this weekend. I went through a lot of settings, and maybe I didn't write it down correctly, but at one point I thought full rear sound had returned. When I chapter skipped to the spot again, the rear speaker was quiet except for those few rear effects. A few people mentioned audio troubles after they used chapter skip, so I'll be doing more testing.

For those of you with rear speaker(s) and no audio issues bitstreaming, do you hear rear sound all the time, or just occasionally?

I run a PS3 thru a Denon 3808ci bitstream HDMI. I believe I was the first one to bring up the dropout issue on ANH. Since then I've remained in bitstream (haven't even tried the PCM switch yet) and viewed ANH, ESB, ROTJ and just finished PM 15 min ago. Surround was going all the time. And the only movie dropout I've experienced (so far) was ANH. Beyond that the THX logos on all OT did it as well. Nothing on PM.

Not sure what's going on with your rig. Im running a 5.1 set up. Do you have more speakers? Maybe it relates to that somehow.
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

1-800-229-1687... ext 2639. Ignore the message to call support at the toll number. 2639 will transfer the call to support.

Hi Jon,

Dummy me, I went ahead and called that toll number and after waiting quite a while and looking at the Oknyo web site I realized that line was for Parts and Service, and NOT Product Support. Called the 800 number again and used the ext and eventually found my way into the Product Support queue. Still had to wait a while but after about 15 minutes got connected to a human who at least had heard of the original DTS bomb. I gave him some info and I was still in their database from the call I made for the original DTS bomb. I told him that I had successfully updated the firmware back then and never had the DTS bomb until the SW dics came out. Obviously he couldn't do anything right now but did assign me a ticket number and would forward the info up the support ladder.

At least this guy seemed to know about the type of problem associated with the DTS bomb. I asked him if he knew about AVS and he did so I gave him this thread telling him that a lot of people were having this problem in Onkyo and other brand AVRs.

So now we wait and see how long it will take for a firmware update to come out.

Again I URGE all people with problems, both drop outs and DTS bombs, to contact their player and AVR manufacturers and let them know that there are serious problems out there with the SW discs!! The more people who complain, the quicker we should get some solutions!

Gerry
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:43 PM
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^
As indicated, I'm running 6.1, which as I understand it, is more akin to 7.1 than 5.1. Front, surrounds, and sub are all fine, it's just the rear speaker. I could always go to 5.1 with AVR settings, but I was hoping to hear it as they made it.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:07 PM
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I am a bit confused about which is the problem.
I plan on buying the SW box set but not sure if I will have any issues.
I have my ps3 slim as my bluray player and I have an Onkyo nr709.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:34 PM
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Panasonic BDT 110
Pioneer VSX 919 AH-K
6.1 set to Bitstream

I experienced an audio drop out last night as I watched AOTC. Brief loss of volume right as credits began to roll.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:42 PM
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Let me get this straight...Denon is releasing a firmware update, but only through service centers and through JDSmoothie (who can send it to us AVS members), but is not going to release a downloadable update from their website for receivers like mine, a 3808ci, that can update through the internet?

If true that kinda sucks, because there's no way I'm disconnecting my receiver and hauling it to a service center, and based on what I've read about updating the firmware yourself, it does seem that I need a computer that runs Windows, and this method of updating has the potential of bricking our receivers, especially if you aren't as tech savy as some here.

I can live with the audio glitches, as I will just use PCM mode. Hopefully the video issues that I've heard of will be dealt with by Panny (in my case) through an internet update.
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Are these all older model receivers having issues?

Seems to be the case. Although being only 3 years-of-age, I don't like to think of mine (a Denon 3808ci) as being all that old.

Oh, this fast moving age of technology seems to be leaving me in dust.
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Old 09-23-2011, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boylan13 View Post

Curious as to whether you have the base firmware or your receiver is connected to the internet and you have done the firmware upgrades that have been delivered after the 3311 first shipped.



-CB

Its def not stock firmware, I upgraded to the latest, unless theres been one in the last month (my nic died last month).

But i watched a new hope last night with no dropouts.
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Old 09-23-2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaKane View Post

it does seem that I need a computer that runs Windows, and this method of updating has the potential of bricking our receivers, especially if you aren't as tech savy as some here.

I may be off base here but, I take the statements about bricking a receiver more as a CYOA statement. I updated my receiver a few years ago using this method and had no problems at all. If you follow the instructions to the T and turn off any anti-virus programs and make sure your laptop is not set to go to sleep or turn a screen saver on, I think the chances of bricking are pretty slim.

Look, there is a chance that you could bricking any piece of equipment when updating firmware, whether it is a receiver or BD player, even if you are using a network update. Plus, the service center is probably going to use this same method to update it and there is a chance they could brick it as well (of course they'd replace if that happened). I'm just saying that I don't think the chance of you bricking your unit is any great compared to updating any thing else, if you follow the instructions.

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Old 09-23-2011, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

I'm just saying that I don't think the chance of you bricking your unit is any great compared to updating any thing else, if you follow the instructions.

For me, it's significantly easier to just press "enter" when prompted for a firmware update over the internet. I don't have to follow any more instructions than that.

And as I mentioned in my previous post, the firmware update available to us AVSers through JDSmoothie is for Windows based operating systems, which is not what I'm running.
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:18 PM
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Player: PS3
AVR: denon 591

So far so good on iv and v, no audio/video issues. Have mine to PCM since its the older fat console. 5.1 set up.

Hoping the rest don't have issues.

Bit by the upgrade bug, limited by the WAF
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by boylan13 View Post

And hopefully avsforum readers are a bit more technically savvy than the average Joe and less likely to brick their receivers.

Rolltide, this is the quote that, even if I were running Windows, put a chill into my blood.

JDSmoothie even mentioned something about if you're not comfortable with an update through RS232 (an unfamiliar term to me) you can take your receiver to a service center.

So, clearly, this update, while it can be administered properly, is a tad bit more involved than pressing "enter" when prompted through the internet (and I agree with you, this too can cause problems).
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:54 PM
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Hi Jon,

Dummy me, I went ahead and called that toll number and after waiting quite a while and looking at the Oknyo web site I realized that line was for Parts and Service, and NOT Product Support. Called the 800 number again and used the ext and eventually found my way into the Product Support queue. Still had to wait a while but after about 15 minutes got connected to a human who at least had heard of the original DTS bomb. I gave him some info and I was still in their database from the call I made for the original DTS bomb. I told him that I had successfully updated the firmware back then and never had the DTS bomb until the SW dics came out. Obviously he couldn't do anything right now but did assign me a ticket number and would forward the info up the support ladder.

At least this guy seemed to know about the type of problem associated with the DTS bomb. I asked him if he knew about AVS and he did so I gave him this thread telling him that a lot of people were having this problem in Onkyo and other brand AVRs.

So now we wait and see how long it will take for a firmware update to come out.

Again I URGE all people with problems, both drop outs and DTS bombs, to contact their player and AVR manufacturers and let them know that there are serious problems out there with the SW discs!! The more people who complain, the quicker we should get some solutions!

Gerry

Gerry,
After flashing the Onkyo TX-NR906B with the latest DSP firmware, I am still getting the DTS bomb issue. The bomb can be replicated by skipping to chapter 16 on Star Wars IV: A New Hope. If I change the output of the Pioneer BDP-05FD to LPCM, the issue goes away. That means the DTS decoding DSP either still has a programming bug or it is not compatible with the latest DTS Master Audio stream. CAUTION: I had my receiver set at 20dB on the volume control which renders the soundtrack almost silent (I normally watch my movies set at 70dB levels so that means the volume is 50dB lower than normal. Even at that reduced setting, the bomb was about the same sound level as a firecracker. Otherwise it would sound like a shotgun went off in the room at the 70dB volume level....

Also, my Sony BDP-S58 does not have the issue because it only streams LPCM out, I cannot stream the native signal from the player.

This is why I hate DTS Master Audio. They always seem to have incompatible issues here and there. I think Dolby Digital True HD or LPCM are better codecs.

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Old 09-23-2011, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaKane View Post

So, clearly, this update, while it can be administered properly, is a tad bit more involved than pressing "enter" when prompted through the internet (and I agree with you, this too can cause problems).

I concede that point, it is more involved then just hitting enter.

Just FYI, RS232 is just the name of the connection port that is more commonly known as a serial port or connection. More accurately, it is the name of the standard (Recommend Standard 232) that defines how serial ports work. Very common back in the day, USB basically displaced it. I know, you probably didn't care and I probably just bored everyone to death but, now you know.

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Old 09-24-2011, 12:35 AM
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I know, you probably didn't care and I probably just bored everyone to death but, now you know.

I always love to learn. That's why I'm here! Thanks!
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaKane View Post

Let me get this straight...Denon is releasing a firmware update, but only through service centers and through JDSmoothie (who can send it to us AVS members), but is not going to release a downloadable update from their website for receivers like mine, a 3808ci, that can update through the internet?

Denon network models (eg. 3808) will of course receive the update as all updates are received ... via the Denon network.

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Old 09-24-2011, 07:34 AM
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Viewed AOTC last night and not a single audio or video issue. Just a reminder, I'm running bitstream from a PS3 to a 3808ci via HDMI.

I'll be watching ROTS today or tomorrow and I'm quite curious as to whether or not I'll have an issue. And I'm really wondering if there isn't more going on here than the need for an AVR firmware update. It seems to me that if I have the dropouts starting with ANH then I would have them in common form among the other discs. And would be an even further certainty among us Denon owners. I don't know, something's not adding up here. B

By the way, why can't firmware updates be done via disc or USB?
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:56 AM
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Player: Oppo BDP-83
Receiver: Dennon 1910
Episode(s) affected: IV (so far)
Player set to: Bitstream

Lots of small audio drop outs. Very annoying! It's fairly obvious that the Disk should fit the design of electronics not the other way around. I hate Lucas.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:36 AM
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I see audio dropouts and decoding noise in quite a few products. I suspect it is a lack of DSP horsepower in some products. Many players decode better than receivers or preamplifier processors.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by hedliniv View Post

Player: Oppo BDP-83
Receiver: Dennon 1910
Episode(s) affected: IV (so far)
Player set to: Bitstream

Lots of small audio drop outs. Very annoying! It's fairly obvious that the Disk should fit the design of electronics not the other way around. I hate Lucas.

Set the player to output PCM and that should fix the issue.

Yeah...like this small hiccup for a select few people is really Lucas' fault.
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:26 AM
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Set the player to output PCM and that should fix the issue.

Yeah...like this small hiccup for a select few people is really Lucas' fault.

Switching to PCM isn't a fix. It's a compromise.
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:41 AM
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So far, I have counted two reports of a Denon 2311CI AVR being unaffected, as well as several 3311CI units. Granted, the 3311CI units were most likely not on the base firmware, but the 2311's probably were (I could not find any indication that there are any FW updates for the 2311 beyond the base). Could this be an issue where the firmware of the 11 and 12 units were tweaked to support the HDMI 1.4 standard, thus (inadvertently?) fixing the problem...? What we need are more people with 11 or 12 units to chime in...

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Old 09-24-2011, 10:43 AM
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FWIW, I had *no* dropouts of any kind when viewing all movies and the extra discs. I'm using a Panasonic BD55 player (w/2GB memory card) going into a older Pioneer Elite VSX-59Txi reciever via Toslink optical (also switched to coaxl digital for comparison on AOTC and ANH). Video goes out direct from BD player to Pioneer Elite Plasma.

I will say all discs are easily the slowest loading Blu-rays I've ever played. Even moving back and forth to various menu screens on the bonus discs is a slow moving chore.
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:56 AM
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Player: Pioneer BDP-320, PS3 Slim 160gb
Receiver: Denon AVR-790
Episode: II - Attack of the Clones, IV - A New Hope
Player set to: Bitstream

Video appears to be fine but I am experiencing drop outs, the small hiccup variety, when playing AOTC and ANH. The problem does go away if I change my 320 or PS3 to PCM, however I loose my pretty blue light. I am able to bitstream the remaining discs without problems, why ? Shouldn't they behave the same? I have come to the conclusion that GL hates blue lights, however he is very fond of flashing magenta lasers .

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Old 09-24-2011, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon S View Post

Gerry,
After flashing the Onkyo TX-NR906B with the latest DSP firmware, I am still getting the DTS bomb issue. The bomb can be replicated by skipping to chapter 16 on Star Wars IV: A New Hope. If I change the output of the Pioneer BDP-05FD to LPCM, the issue goes away. That means the DTS decoding DSP either still has a programming bug or it is not compatible with the latest DTS Master Audio stream. CAUTION: I had my receiver set at 20dB on the volume control which renders the soundtrack almost silent (I normally watch my movies set at 70dB levels so that means the volume is 50dB lower than normal. Even at that reduced setting, the bomb was about the same sound level as a firecracker. Otherwise it would sound like a shotgun went off in the room at the 70dB volume level....

Also, my Sony BDP-S58 does not have the issue because it only streams LPCM out, I cannot stream the native signal from the player.

This is why I hate DTS Master Audio. They always seem to have incompatible issues here and there. I think Dolby Digital True HD or LPCM are better codecs.

Hi Jon,

Thanks for the info. For now I'm still going to keep my player at bitstream as I'm not really sure if it does a true decode when set to PCM. Until a firmware update comes out I'll avoid skipping to chapters, which I usually don't do much of anyway, and if I have to pause it I'll put it on mute and wait several seconds after resuming before I un-mute it.

At least I was able to speak to a human at both Panasonic (player) and Onkyo. And the Onkyo guy at least knew about the existance of the DTS bomb even though it was news to him that its back now for the SW discs.

We shall see what we shall see!!!

Gerry

P. S. I'm glad you found a way to replicate the bomb and if I have to talk to Onkyo again I will relay the info. I would suggest you do the same if you have additional contact with them.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Denon network models (eg. 3808) will of course receive the update as all updates are received ... via the Denon network.

Sweet music to my ears!

Thank you, jdsmoothie! Thank you, Denon!

P.S. If possible, could you post in this forum when said update is available to us? I would greatly appreciate it.
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