Transformers: Dark of the Moon comparison *PIX* and *VID* - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 120 Old 02-13-2012, 08:41 PM
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It is starting to make me wonder if all of the discs have the problem, or if it is only some. There are users here that can plainly see the problem, and the screenshots posted here confirm it. So the problem certainly does exist.

But those of you who say you can't notice the lower brightness after the 40 minute mark, if your discs possibly do not have the issue well that would explain it. But as far as I know, if one disc has it, they all will. Just like FOTR EE (assuming that was a mistake and not intentional).

If you are saying you can't even see the green and teal look, well look at the screenshots, on any display. It is there. In post 30 with the screenshots, look at screenshots 4 and 5.

2D = white background.
3D = green background.
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post #92 of 120 Old 02-14-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieb187 View Post

I had already watched the 3D version. And I watched the Wingsuit and battle scenes at the end a few times. The Wingsuit jump from the copter is absolutely awesome in 3D. After reading in this thread about the brightness I decided to watched the last half of both 2D & 3D versions. I flipped back and forth between the two and I'm not seeing the big difference in brightness described here. I'm certainly not seeing the horrible green and teal look that someone mentioned. Better check your display.
2D in the Oppo BDP 83 and 3D in the Panasonic BDT110. Connected through an Onkyo 709 and then to an Epson 5010 3D projector and displayed on a 106" screen.
I know that the Epson compensates for brightness in 3D mode. Maybe that's why I'm not seeing much brightness difference? Maybe the 2D seems a little brighter because you don't have to where the glasses? Anyway, I'm not seeing that much of a difference. I would much rather watch the 3D version. Way better experience, especially the battle at the end. I gotta tell you the image looks pretty damn good to me for both versions.
Except for Avatar I think this title is by far the best use of 3D in movie so far.

No, no and no I have watched countless 3d blus and played quite a few 3d games and I have never seen anything do what this disc does. The brightness simply drops down a few notches (enough to be noticeable) at ~42 minutes in and stays this way for the rest of the disc. This is definitely not a display issue as there is clearly something wrong with the encode. If this somehow was intentional, it makes absolutely no sense to me which is why I am leaning toward error. The first 42 minutes look like what I would expect the 3d version to look like, then the brightness takes a bit of a dive........it is not consistent and that is the problem. I feel strongly that the first ~42 minutes are correct and something happened at that point with the brightness and dulled the rest of the presentation which is a shame.

As far as people not noticing it, well that could be happening for a variety of reasons. I really doubt there is a bad batch of discs though as I would think they either all have it or dont.

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post #93 of 120 Old 02-14-2012, 03:13 PM
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Is there a defective batch of 3D discs or different encodes for different countries? I just got the movie in Australia and while I did feel the 2nd half of the movie felt very dim compared to the 3D Blu-rays I currently have I don't get the horrible green tint. I even disabled the 3D through my TV while the 3D disc was in and has the scene where Sam meets Carly boss because it has loads of white and the whites looked correct to me on my display when in 2D and the 3DTV has been ISF calibrated both for 2D and 3D. Anyone else try bringing up that scene with the 3D disc and disabling the 3D through their TV or BD player?
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post #94 of 120 Old 02-14-2012, 11:30 PM
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I have not watched the movie yet, but I did the following:
1) Output 2d version to PS3
2) output 3D version to Sony S470

Both of them going to my receiver which is going to my HMZ-T1 3D headset. Reason I used this - no loss of brightness with 3D since it displays each image to each eye... If I close one eye, I'll see the same frame in 2D.

I switched between several different scenes and I did notice that the 3D version has different color and overall is a bit darker... it did not look as dramatic as some of the shots -- most notable #3 with shia in the car -- bright white background on 2D, greenish background in 3D. This was very easy for me to tell the difference between 2d and 3d, but it did not look quite as different as the pics...

Now the margin for error is that I'm switching between inputs which takes about 2 seconds...the pics are very easy to spot difference(open each in 2 tabs, look at one, close your eyes for 2 seconds while clicking on the other one). I do the same on HMZ, and I do notice difference but not as much.

The scenes past 42 minutes didn't really seem any darker relative to the scenes prior , but I haven't done a LOT of sampling. I'm going to do more testing tomorrow to see what's going on... I'll try to look at some of the pictures here that show dramatic diffs and see if the difference is just as noticeable...

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post #95 of 120 Old 02-15-2012, 05:13 AM
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The easiest way me to spot the brightness difference when just skipping through scenes is comparing the scene outdoors in Chernobyl to the scene in Chicago where Sam is rescuing Carly. Both in very bright settings featuring outdoor shots.
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post #96 of 120 Old 02-15-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX View Post

If you are saying you can't even see the green and teal look, well look at the screenshots, on any display. It is there. In post 30 with the screenshots, look at screenshots 4 and 5.

2D = white background.
3D = green background.

Unfortunately, the problem for me is that all of my 3D movies are greener than the 2D versions, but it's because of the stupid active shutter glasses and their green-ish tint. I can't tell because of that.
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post #97 of 120 Old 02-15-2012, 01:52 PM
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If you can try adjusting the colour temperature when your TV is in 3D mode to fix that.

EDIT: I just contacted Paramount Australia about the brightness issue lets hope they get back to me soon on what they think. If you notice the issue contact your countries Paramount and let them know about the issue and if you can do e-mails link to the comparison posts in this thread.
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post #98 of 120 Old 02-15-2012, 02:42 PM
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For those comparing the versions, you're not wearing glasses when viewing the 3D, right?

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post #99 of 120 Old 02-16-2012, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieb187 View Post

I'm certainly not seeing the horrible green and teal look that someone mentioned. Better check your display.

Michael Bay is the biggest offender of the "teal and orange" color fad in all of Hollywood. He practically invented it. If you don't see teal skies and bright orange flesh tones in this movie, then it's your display that's miscalibrated.

As for the brightness issue, I watched a good chunk of the disc the other night, and the second half is certainly dimmer than the first half. However, the complaints seem pretty overblown to me (at least on my screen).

Here's my question: Is the last half of the movie actually darker than other 3D discs? Or is it just that the first half has been brightened higher than normal, and the second half seems dim in comparison? Because that's what it looks like to me.

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post #100 of 120 Old 02-16-2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Michael Bay is the biggest offender of the "teal and orange" color fad in all of Hollywood. He practically invented it. If you don't see teal skies and bright orange flesh tones in this movie, then it's your display that's miscalibrated.

As for the brightness issue, I watched a good chunk of the disc the other night, and the second half is certainly dimmer than the first half. However, the complaints seem pretty overblown to me (at least on my screen).

Here's my question: Is the last half of the movie actually darker than other 3D discs? Or is it just that the first half has been brightened higher than normal, and the second half seems dim in comparison? Because that's what it looks like to me.

josh - on my setup, i thought indeed that the first part seemed boosted and that the second half looked dim mostly by comparison. the screenshots in this thread sure look a lot dimmer than I am seeing, but regardless there is no doubt that it is dimmer than the first 40 minutes.

there is definitely no issue with black crush which would be a huge issue in 3d. so the subdued whites could possibly be intentional as the film gets darker in tone, but it still seems like an error imho
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post #101 of 120 Old 02-16-2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post


Here's my question: Is the last half of the movie actually darker than other 3D discs? Or is it just that the first half has been brightened higher than normal, and the second half seems dim in comparison? Because that's what it looks like to me.

The other question is -- does the 2D also become dimmer -- it would definitely be less noticeable, but if it were graphed out the same way as the 3D would we see something similar?

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post #102 of 120 Old 02-16-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

The other question is -- does the 2D also become dimmer -- it would definitely be less noticeable, but if it were graphed out the same way as the 3D would we see something similar?

i don't think the 2d gets dimmer.
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post #103 of 120 Old 02-17-2012, 09:52 AM
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I did more searching and the problem is definitely there. I think it appears more dramatic on my computer monitor (not calibrated) than it does in actual viewing, but it exists. So I don't think there was a bad batch of discs and a good batch, etc... All the 3D probably have this issue

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post #104 of 120 Old 02-17-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

The other question is -- does the 2D also become dimmer -- it would definitely be less noticeable, but if it were graphed out the same way as the 3D would we see something similar?

We know that Michael Bay made adjustments to the movie's color timing and brightness for the 3D theatrical release, in order to compensate for the dimming effect of 3D glasses. Perhaps he only did that for the first 40 minutes, then got bored and let his attention wander to something else?

Did anyone who saw this theatrically in 3D notice the movie getting darker in the second half?

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post #105 of 120 Old 02-17-2012, 12:18 PM
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Saw it twice in 3D at different cinemas, I remember no brightness problems beyond the usual dim 3D look. That said, I didn't notice anything wrong with the 3D Blu-ray either.
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post #106 of 120 Old 02-17-2012, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Michael Bay is the biggest offender of the "teal and orange" color fad in all of Hollywood. He practically invented it. If you don't see teal skies and bright orange flesh tones in this movie, then it's your display that's miscalibrated.

As for the brightness issue, I watched a good chunk of the disc the other night, and the second half is certainly dimmer than the first half. However, the complaints seem pretty overblown to me (at least on my screen).

Here's my question: Is the last half of the movie actually darker than other 3D discs? Or is it just that the first half has been brightened higher than normal, and the second half seems dim in comparison? Because that's what it looks like to me.

I thought the first ~42 minutes looked "normal" as far as what I see with 3d in general on my screen while the 2nd half seemed a bit more dim than usual.

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post #107 of 120 Old 02-17-2012, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

The other question is -- does the 2D also become dimmer -- it would definitely be less noticeable, but if it were graphed out the same way as the 3D would we see something similar?

2D vs 3D


Last scene of the 2D movie before the credits start, with BTB highlighted in red and WTW highlighted in green. Timecode is 2:25:56.
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post #108 of 120 Old 02-17-2012, 08:23 PM
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Exchange program.

Now.
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post #109 of 120 Old 02-17-2012, 10:07 PM
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So where do we write to complain?

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post #110 of 120 Old 02-17-2012, 11:31 PM
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So where do we write to complain?

Here
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post #111 of 120 Old 02-18-2012, 07:27 AM
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someone needs to send those graphs to paramount.

the worst part of this is that at 42 minutes, there is still almost 2 hours of movie left!!!
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post #112 of 120 Old 02-21-2012, 04:03 PM
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Watched the entire movie in 3D, and my eyes definately agree the the graphs posted above. I'm glad Toe mentioned this to me, because I would have been fiddling with the settings on my PJ endlessly not knowing if my lamp was going to explode. Those with larger screens, that need all the brightness in 3D we can get, will notice this dimming very clearly. Yep, exchange program needs to happen to fix this.
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post #113 of 120 Old 02-21-2012, 04:14 PM
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Yep anyone who cannot notice this is not paying enough attention, which is odd considering this is AVS.....
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post #114 of 120 Old 02-24-2012, 04:51 AM
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here is a manual way to fix it: re-encode the disk with increased contrast and saturation after 42m
or just do it in your player...

I'm doing it second way, at least it would not let the dimming problem ruin my viewing experience
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post #115 of 120 Old 03-05-2012, 07:44 AM
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finally watched it all the way through last night.

i know the graph shows that it's consistently dark after 40ish minutes but to be it starts looking even more dark than it should during the final battle sequences. to me it also diminished the overall 3d effect, during these scenes which should have had plenty of depth (which was not an issue earlier in the disc).

i hope someone at paramount at least takes a look at this...
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post #116 of 120 Old 03-12-2012, 06:07 AM
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Why don't you guys just actually do something and contact Paramounts home video division? I called them up in Australia and they have had my 3D disc for about 2 weeks now being checked out by the QA department but with it most likely just being me complaining nothing will be done about it.
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post #117 of 120 Old 03-12-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiseDarthVader View Post

Why don't you guys just actually do something and contact Paramounts home video division? I called them up in Australia and they have had my 3D disc for about 2 weeks now being checked out by the QA department but with it most likely just being me complaining nothing will be done about it.

When you mention something like this to someone in technical support, the first goal is for them to prove that it's your player or your tv settings causing the issue. This is definitely understandable, but sometimes you get someone who just blows you off and assumes it's your fault even after you tell them that it's not a player issue, etc.. This can make it very difficult to prove there's a problem.

If you want to be the one to call them up and explain, see if you can get a ticket number or something and share it on here, then we can all call up and reference that ticket number to add to it so they see there are multiple people who know about it and are complaining...

I have no idea if there's an easier way or not...

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post #118 of 120 Old 03-12-2012, 08:02 PM
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I can provide the e-mail for the Paramount Australia Home Division but he would only be useful for Australian customers like me. In case anyone is Australian here is the e-mail: Trevor_Cross@Paramount.com perhaps you can ask him for the guy in charge of US Paramount Home Video's e-mail.
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post #119 of 120 Old 04-25-2012, 10:14 PM
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This 3d disc should be recalled, by the time it gets to the last parts the image is SO FREAKING DARK. the 2d version obviously displays no dimming of any kind.
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post #120 of 120 Old 04-25-2012, 11:15 PM
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Yeh it's just amazing that Paramount's QA department has not picked this up... even after all this time.
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