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Transformers: Dark of the Moon comparison *PIX* and *VID*

18K views 119 replies 40 participants last post by  XxDeadlyxX 
#1 ·
#77 ·
I can't say that I noticed anything too strange about the brightness overall and I even watched it after reading this thread. Overall, the PQ was excellent.


I did notice that some scenes took take place in the late afternoon that were darker overall (such as when they were preparing for the shuttle launch with the sun low on the horizon) but that made sense given the time of day.


In the later chapters there was still plenty of punch to the whites and lights, though the scenes were generally dominated by shadows since everything seemed to take place between buildings with scenes dominated by a ton of grey robots. On my plasma, it all looked great and I noticed no clipping of the whites. Of course, this is subjective since eye was only using my eyes and I didn't do an A/B comparison between the 3D and 2D version, however... although frankly, an A/B comparison is tough since my TV amps up the settings in 3D mode.


This was on my Samsung PN63C8000 using Samsung active OEM 3D glasses.


By the way, why did Michael Bay have to decide to make every single Decepticon totally gray? It's a total mess in that regard since it felt like Han and Luke were shooting at random stormtroopers. In the cartoon (and animated movie), I always knew who was fighting whom and I actually cared!
Great visuals and AQ overall, but definitely lacking in story and characters. I won't spoil anything either, but damn... Optimus sure seemed angry and vengeful. Not quite the way I'd always thought of Optimus.
 
#79 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad /forum/post/21618189


Just curious -- there are about 40 screenshots on blu-ray.com within review of the 3D version... does anyone know if these are shots from the 2D version, or if they are the left-eye shots from the 3D.

They are all from the 2D version as per usual. If you notice the shot of Carly and Sam hiding behind cover it is the same as the 2D shot posted last page here of the 2D version. It is not the darkened shot from the 3D version.
 
#80 ·
Yeah, before getting it I asked that question on their forum and someone said the reviewer used shots of the 2D disc. I don't think their hardware capture setup allows them to set the player to 3D mode.
 
#81 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX /forum/post/21608317


I'm betting that what we see up until the 42 minute mark in the movie is what Bay assumes is on the whole disc since that is probably what he viewed and approved before the disc was made. Whoever did the final disc mastering though made a boo-boo.

I also think another reason a lot of people aren't noticing this when watching is because they are so engrossed in the 3D that they aren't paying attention to the more basic elements of the transfer, that would be very easy to spot if it was 2D. People probably have come to expect lower brightness when watching 3D these days anyway, but that should only be the fault of the equipment or 3D technology used, not the transfer itself!


It is still rather childish of Bay to pretty much attack anyone who says there may be anything wrong with the disc.....


EDIT: Whoops, I meant attack anyone's equipment

I think this is what happened with me. The first night I watched the movie (also first time I've seen it) I thought the 3D was excellent, especially during the last hour.


Then a couple of nights later I was popping in some new movies I got to check out the PQ (which I always do) and then I popped in Transformers again because I wanted to relive the awesome 3D and jumped right to the Chicago section. I couldn't believe how dark it looked, exactly like the screenshots.


In the intervening time since I first watched it I had upgraded my version of PowerDVD so I thought maybe that had caused the movie to look messed up. Clearly it's the transfer but it's amazing I totally didn't notice when I first watched it.
 
#82 ·
same here. it definitely gets darker, but since it's the whites that get lowered (and not the blacks) it's harder to notice especially in 3d.


if you put another disc in, and switch back to Transformers it's immediately obvious that it's too dark after the 40ish minute mark.
 
#84 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 /forum/post/21629930


Will Paramount & Michael Bay rectify this issue and offer free replacements?

judging by Bay's previously quoted comments about how he mastered the 3d version, i highly doubt anything will happen unless he sees something like the brightness graph that clearly shows the dip after the 40ish minute mark.


going to the exact timecode noted by another user earlier in the thread, i swear in the shot before it (where you see shia lebouf's face as he's sitting down in the office), you can see the brightness being dialed down during the actual shot!


all that being said, i looked at Pirates 3 and it looks about as dark as Transformers does on my setup, from beginning to end (even in daytime shots).
 
#85 ·
So, I just watched the 3D version (UK platter) and I'm still reeling, 'cause it was awesome. Whether the brightness thing y'all have uncovered is intentional or not, I can't say that it affected my viewing experience in the slightest.


I don't have the 2D version running on another TV next to this one, nor did I immediately put in the 2D version afterwards and shout out 'what the f*** happened to the brightness?'. I simply topped up my JD & coke, pressed play and zoned out.


With the stunning audio and superlative 3D video, this disc is home cinema heaven.
 
#86 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D /forum/post/0


So, I just watched the 3D version (UK platter) and I'm still reeling, 'cause it was awesome. Whether the brightness thing y'all have uncovered is intentional or not, I can't say that it affected my viewing experience in the slightest.


I don't have the 2D version running on another TV next to this one, nor did I immediately put in the 2D version afterwards and shout out 'what the f*** happened to the brightness?'. I simply topped up my JD & coke, pressed play and zoned out.


With the stunning audio and superlative 3D video, this disc is home cinema heaven.

Qft
 
#87 ·
If this title was say... DNR'd, I think a lot of you would not be quite as forgiving.


A fault of the transfer is a fault of the transfer. This brightness issue is clearly a fault. Why accept this fault but not others? It implies a double standard. If you ask me, this issue is possibly just as bad if not worse than DNR/EE.


This disc needs a recall, enough said. I see exchange programs done by Disney etc for almost insignificant fixes like the POTC framing issue in one scene, yet such a significant issue like this is accepeted even by some of you hardcore enthusiasts? I don't get it.


Just because Michael Bay has come out defending the Blu-ray disc means everything is OK?
 
#88 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX /forum/post/21631798


If this title was say... DNR'd, I think a lot of you would not be quite as forgiving.


A fault of the transfer is a fault of the transfer. This brightness issue is clearly a fault. Why accept this fault but not others? It implies a double standard. If you ask me, this issue is possibly just as bad if not worse than DNR/EE.


This disc needs a recall, enough said. I see exchange programs done by Disney etc for almost insignificant fixes like the POTC framing issue in one scene, yet such a significant issue like this is accepeted even by some of you hardcore enthusiasts? I don't get it.


Just because Michael Bay has come out defending the Blu-ray disc means everything is OK?

Agreed. The disc is messed up, period. Nobody should be defending this error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D /forum/post/21631636


So, I just watched the 3D version (UK platter) and I'm still reeling, 'cause it was awesome. Whether the brightness thing y'all have uncovered is intentional or not, I can't say that it affected my viewing experience in the slightest.


I don't have the 2D version running on another TV next to this one, nor did I immediately put in the 2D version afterwards and shout out 'what the f*** happened to the brightness?'. I simply topped up my JD & coke, pressed play and zoned out.


With the stunning audio and superlative 3D video, this disc is home cinema heaven.


I did not pop in the 2d disc right after and I was drinking beer (
), but the brightness drop was obvious to me and cant be anything but an error as it makes no sense. No matter if you noticed it or not, its there and the presentation is not as good as it should be.


I agree with you on the audio.......no issues there!


Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 /forum/post/21629930


Will Paramount & Michael Bay rectify this issue and offer free replacements?

They absolutely should, but I am not holding my breath.
 
#89 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX /forum/post/21631798


If this title was say... DNR'd, I think a lot of you would not be quite as forgiving.


A fault of the transfer is a fault of the transfer. This brightness issue is clearly a fault. Why accept this fault but not others? It implies a double standard. If you ask me, this issue is possibly just as bad if not worse than DNR/EE.


This disc needs a recall, enough said. I see exchange programs done by Disney etc for almost insignificant fixes like the POTC framing issue in one scene, yet such a significant issue like this is accepeted even by some of you hardcore enthusiasts? I don't get it.


Just because Michael Bay has come out defending the Blu-ray disc means everything is OK?

Well said. Fully support the above comments.
 
#90 ·
I had already watched the 3D version. And I watched the Wingsuit and battle scenes at the end a few times. The Wingsuit jump from the copter is absolutely awesome in 3D. After reading in this thread about the brightness I decided to watched the last half of both 2D & 3D versions. I flipped back and forth between the two and I'm not seeing the big difference in brightness described here. I'm certainly not seeing the horrible green and teal look that someone mentioned. Better check your display.

2D in the Oppo BDP 83 and 3D in the Panasonic BDT110. Connected through an Onkyo 709 and then to an Epson 5010 3D projector and displayed on a 106" screen.

I know that the Epson compensates for brightness in 3D mode. Maybe that's why I'm not seeing much brightness difference? Maybe the 2D seems a little brighter because you don't have to where the glasses? Anyway, I'm not seeing that much of a difference. I would much rather watch the 3D version. Way better experience, especially the battle at the end. I gotta tell you the image looks pretty damn good to me for both versions.

Except for Avatar I think this title is by far the best use of 3D in movie so far.
 
#91 ·
It is starting to make me wonder if all of the discs have the problem, or if it is only some. There are users here that can plainly see the problem, and the screenshots posted here confirm it. So the problem certainly does exist.


But those of you who say you can't notice the lower brightness after the 40 minute mark, if your discs possibly do not have the issue well that would explain it. But as far as I know, if one disc has it, they all will. Just like FOTR EE (assuming that was a mistake and not intentional).


If you are saying you can't even see the green and teal look, well look at the screenshots, on any display. It is there. In post 30 with the screenshots, look at screenshots 4 and 5.


2D = white background.

3D = green background.
 
#92 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieb187 /forum/post/21642008


I had already watched the 3D version. And I watched the Wingsuit and battle scenes at the end a few times. The Wingsuit jump from the copter is absolutely awesome in 3D. After reading in this thread about the brightness I decided to watched the last half of both 2D & 3D versions. I flipped back and forth between the two and I'm not seeing the big difference in brightness described here. I'm certainly not seeing the horrible green and teal look that someone mentioned. Better check your display.

2D in the Oppo BDP 83 and 3D in the Panasonic BDT110. Connected through an Onkyo 709 and then to an Epson 5010 3D projector and displayed on a 106" screen.

I know that the Epson compensates for brightness in 3D mode. Maybe that's why I'm not seeing much brightness difference? Maybe the 2D seems a little brighter because you don't have to where the glasses? Anyway, I'm not seeing that much of a difference. I would much rather watch the 3D version. Way better experience, especially the battle at the end. I gotta tell you the image looks pretty damn good to me for both versions.

Except for Avatar I think this title is by far the best use of 3D in movie so far.

No, no and no
I have watched countless 3d blus and played quite a few 3d games and I have never seen anything do what this disc does. The brightness simply drops down a few notches (enough to be noticeable) at ~42 minutes in and stays this way for the rest of the disc. This is definitely not a display issue as there is clearly something wrong with the encode. If this somehow was intentional, it makes absolutely no sense to me which is why I am leaning toward error. The first 42 minutes look like what I would expect the 3d version to look like, then the brightness takes a bit of a dive........it is not consistent and that is the problem. I feel strongly that the first ~42 minutes are correct and something happened at that point with the brightness and dulled the rest of the presentation which is a shame.


As far as people not noticing it, well that could be happening for a variety of reasons. I really doubt there is a bad batch of discs though as I would think they either all have it or dont.
 
#93 ·
Is there a defective batch of 3D discs or different encodes for different countries? I just got the movie in Australia and while I did feel the 2nd half of the movie felt very dim compared to the 3D Blu-rays I currently have I don't get the horrible green tint. I even disabled the 3D through my TV while the 3D disc was in and has the scene where Sam meets Carly boss because it has loads of white and the whites looked correct to me on my display when in 2D and the 3DTV has been ISF calibrated both for 2D and 3D. Anyone else try bringing up that scene with the 3D disc and disabling the 3D through their TV or BD player?
 
#94 ·
I have not watched the movie yet, but I did the following:

1) Output 2d version to PS3

2) output 3D version to Sony S470


Both of them going to my receiver which is going to my HMZ-T1 3D headset. Reason I used this - no loss of brightness with 3D since it displays each image to each eye... If I close one eye, I'll see the same frame in 2D.


I switched between several different scenes and I did notice that the 3D version has different color and overall is a bit darker... it did not look as dramatic as some of the shots -- most notable #3 with shia in the car -- bright white background on 2D, greenish background in 3D. This was very easy for me to tell the difference between 2d and 3d, but it did not look quite as different as the pics...


Now the margin for error is that I'm switching between inputs which takes about 2 seconds...the pics are very easy to spot difference(open each in 2 tabs, look at one, close your eyes for 2 seconds while clicking on the other one). I do the same on HMZ, and I do notice difference but not as much.


The scenes past 42 minutes didn't really seem any darker relative to the scenes prior , but I haven't done a LOT of sampling. I'm going to do more testing tomorrow to see what's going on... I'll try to look at some of the pictures here that show dramatic diffs and see if the difference is just as noticeable...
 
#96 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX /forum/post/21642298


If you are saying you can't even see the green and teal look, well look at the screenshots, on any display. It is there. In post 30 with the screenshots, look at screenshots 4 and 5.


2D = white background.

3D = green background.

Unfortunately, the problem for me is that all of my 3D movies are greener than the 2D versions, but it's because of the stupid active shutter glasses and their green-ish tint. I can't tell because of that.
 
#97 ·
If you can try adjusting the colour temperature when your TV is in 3D mode to fix that.


EDIT: I just contacted Paramount Australia about the brightness issue lets hope they get back to me soon on what they think. If you notice the issue contact your countries Paramount and let them know about the issue and if you can do e-mails link to the comparison posts in this thread.
 
#99 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieb187 /forum/post/21642008


I'm certainly not seeing the horrible green and teal look that someone mentioned. Better check your display.

Michael Bay is the biggest offender of the "teal and orange" color fad in all of Hollywood. He practically invented it. If you don't see teal skies and bright orange flesh tones in this movie, then it's your display that's miscalibrated.


As for the brightness issue, I watched a good chunk of the disc the other night, and the second half is certainly dimmer than the first half. However, the complaints seem pretty overblown to me (at least on my screen).


Here's my question: Is the last half of the movie actually darker than other 3D discs? Or is it just that the first half has been brightened higher than normal, and the second half seems dim in comparison? Because that's what it looks like to me.
 
#100 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z /forum/post/21654572


Michael Bay is the biggest offender of the "teal and orange" color fad in all of Hollywood. He practically invented it. If you don't see teal skies and bright orange flesh tones in this movie, then it's your display that's miscalibrated.


As for the brightness issue, I watched a good chunk of the disc the other night, and the second half is certainly dimmer than the first half. However, the complaints seem pretty overblown to me (at least on my screen).


Here's my question: Is the last half of the movie actually darker than other 3D discs? Or is it just that the first half has been brightened higher than normal, and the second half seems dim in comparison? Because that's what it looks like to me.

josh - on my setup, i thought indeed that the first part seemed boosted and that the second half looked dim mostly by comparison. the screenshots in this thread sure look a lot dimmer than I am seeing, but regardless there is no doubt that it is dimmer than the first 40 minutes.


there is definitely no issue with black crush which would be a huge issue in 3d. so the subdued whites could possibly be intentional as the film gets darker in tone, but it still seems like an error imho
 
#101 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z /forum/post/21654572



Here's my question: Is the last half of the movie actually darker than other 3D discs? Or is it just that the first half has been brightened higher than normal, and the second half seems dim in comparison? Because that's what it looks like to me.

The other question is -- does the 2D also become dimmer -- it would definitely be less noticeable, but if it were graphed out the same way as the 3D would we see something similar?
 
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