Transformers: Dark of the Moon comparison *PIX* and *VID* - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Reference PQ and AQ.





Revenge of the Fallen comparison *PIX*

Transformers comparison *PIX*

Transformers HD DVD versus Blu-ray

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post #2 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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post #6 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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post #7 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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post #8 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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post #9 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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post #10 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Blu-ray file size: 42.4 GB

Bit-rate: 27.67 mbps AVC


Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00800.MPLS                                                      AVC     2:34:23 45,614,217,216  46,277,655,168  39.39   27.67   Dolby TrueHD 7.1 4301Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)  DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps
Code:
DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     TRANSFORMERS_3_AC
Disc Size:      46,277,655,168 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        Yes
BDInfo:         0.5.6

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00800.MPLS
Length:                 2:34:23 (h:m:s)
Size:                   45,614,217,216 bytes
Total Bitrate:          39.39 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        27665 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Dolby TrueHD Audio              English         4301 kbps       7.1 / 48 kHz / 4301 kbps / 24-bit (AC3 Embedded: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps / DN -4dB)
Dolby Digital Audio             English         640 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps / DN -4dB
Dolby Digital Audio             English         224 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 224 kbps / DN -4dB / Dolby Surround
Dolby Digital Audio             French          640 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps / DN -4dB
Dolby Digital Audio             Spanish         640 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps / DN -4dB
Dolby Digital Audio             Portuguese      640 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps / DN -4dB
Dolby Digital Audio             English         640 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps / DN -4dB

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         40.463 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           English         44.768 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           French          39.808 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         34.679 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Portuguese      32.999 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00800.M2TS      0:00:00.000     2:34:23.295     45,614,217,216  39,394          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:08:52.573     27,358 kbps     35,273 kbps     00:08:39.477    33,294 kbps     00:00:02.002    33,111 kbps     00:00:01.001    142,618 bytes   402,618 bytes   00:03:07.562    
2               0:08:52.573     0:05:34.042     27,386 kbps     31,589 kbps     00:08:52.615    29,783 kbps     00:08:52.573    28,663 kbps     00:11:32.942    142,779 bytes   343,661 bytes   00:13:00.946    
3               0:14:26.615     0:05:54.312     27,598 kbps     34,688 kbps     00:20:13.170    33,104 kbps     00:20:09.207    30,532 kbps     00:20:04.203    143,885 bytes   318,112 bytes   00:16:08.509    
4               0:20:20.928     0:08:27.215     27,727 kbps     35,464 kbps     00:26:31.965    33,876 kbps     00:27:09.461    31,792 kbps     00:26:27.335    144,556 bytes   353,180 bytes   00:28:24.744    
5               0:28:48.143     0:07:30.491     27,360 kbps     36,575 kbps     00:36:16.924    33,523 kbps     00:34:40.995    32,708 kbps     00:34:40.495    142,643 bytes   545,536 bytes   00:35:43.432    
6               0:36:18.634     0:08:59.914     27,392 kbps     35,954 kbps     00:45:12.918    32,027 kbps     00:45:13.001    30,859 kbps     00:45:07.996    142,808 bytes   305,569 bytes   00:37:42.551    
7               0:45:18.549     0:06:34.477     27,550 kbps     34,085 kbps     00:46:46.303    33,163 kbps     00:46:42.299    31,469 kbps     00:46:42.132    143,631 bytes   355,091 bytes   00:49:43.939    
8               0:51:53.026     0:04:41.197     27,367 kbps     36,800 kbps     00:56:22.587    30,691 kbps     00:55:34.622    29,199 kbps     00:55:31.619    142,681 bytes   378,735 bytes   00:56:08.698    
9               0:56:34.224     0:07:39.083     27,770 kbps     34,226 kbps     00:57:39.456    32,749 kbps     00:56:35.183    30,781 kbps     01:03:50.326    144,780 bytes   374,004 bytes   01:01:32.772    
10              1:04:13.307     0:08:43.397     27,752 kbps     36,866 kbps     01:08:05.122    34,150 kbps     01:11:58.272    33,375 kbps     01:07:52.526    144,687 bytes   340,226 bytes   01:04:21.315    
11              1:12:56.705     0:06:12.372     27,721 kbps     35,934 kbps     01:18:54.855    33,613 kbps     01:18:50.851    32,276 kbps     01:18:49.599    144,524 bytes   312,645 bytes   01:14:29.506    
12              1:19:09.077     0:04:32.313     27,681 kbps     34,146 kbps     01:22:28.652    33,779 kbps     01:22:45.460    33,596 kbps     01:22:28.151    144,315 bytes   299,999 bytes   01:21:38.518    
13              1:23:41.391     0:05:03.428     26,642 kbps     34,835 kbps     01:28:17.792    34,002 kbps     01:28:13.788    33,871 kbps     01:24:03.163    138,899 bytes   444,445 bytes   01:27:34.582    
14              1:28:44.819     0:06:28.262     27,285 kbps     37,602 kbps     01:35:00.027    33,747 kbps     01:33:34.775    32,736 kbps     01:34:47.765    142,251 bytes   637,014 bytes   01:34:05.681    
15              1:35:13.082     0:07:31.075     27,336 kbps     37,484 kbps     01:38:51.926    34,085 kbps     01:40:36.196    33,006 kbps     01:40:35.237    142,516 bytes   445,706 bytes   01:39:52.319    
16              1:42:44.158     0:06:28.179     27,081 kbps     37,852 kbps     01:48:19.367    33,983 kbps     01:46:46.024    32,380 kbps     01:45:12.764    141,189 bytes   326,551 bytes   01:42:48.162    
17              1:49:12.337     0:07:30.575     27,809 kbps     35,570 kbps     01:50:14.941    33,948 kbps     01:55:27.670    33,431 kbps     01:55:22.790    144,985 bytes   344,015 bytes   01:56:41.411    
18              1:56:42.912     0:08:16.204     29,893 kbps     36,408 kbps     01:58:29.102    34,075 kbps     02:04:31.797    33,918 kbps     02:01:57.393    155,849 bytes   380,326 bytes   02:04:28.878    
19              2:04:59.116     0:06:30.473     32,322 kbps     37,137 kbps     02:10:34.034    34,539 kbps     02:09:08.907    33,965 kbps     02:05:11.295    168,510 bytes   436,979 bytes   02:07:55.584    
20              2:11:29.590     0:07:41.294     32,162 kbps     36,058 kbps     02:13:51.815    34,274 kbps     02:13:47.769    33,805 kbps     02:13:08.855    167,680 bytes   412,443 bytes   02:16:53.330    
21              2:19:10.884     0:06:26.636     30,770 kbps     38,095 kbps     02:21:43.620    34,189 kbps     02:21:27.812    33,917 kbps     02:19:34.574    160,420 bytes   420,175 bytes   02:19:16.264    
22              2:25:37.520     0:08:45.775     18,377 kbps     36,405 kbps     02:34:18.791    33,244 kbps     02:25:38.354    29,390 kbps     02:25:37.520    95,815 bytes    472,106 bytes   02:31:33.959    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00800.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     9263.129                27,666                  32,034,006,306  174,227,596     
00800.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x83            TrueHD          eng (English)           9263.129                4,942                   5,721,806,336   38,498,932      
00800.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x81            AC3             eng (English)           9263.129                640                     741,063,680     4,342,170       
00800.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x81            AC3             eng (English)           9263.129                224                     259,372,288     1,447,390       
00800.M2TS      4355 (0x1103)   0x81            AC3             fra (French)            9263.129                640                     741,063,680     4,342,170       
00800.M2TS      4356 (0x1104)   0x81            AC3             spa (Spanish)           9263.129                640                     741,063,680     4,342,170       
00800.M2TS      4357 (0x1105)   0x81            AC3             por (Portuguese)        9263.129                640                     741,063,680     4,342,170       
00800.M2TS      4358 (0x1106)   0x81            AC3             eng (English)           9263.129                640                     741,063,680     4,342,170       
00800.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           9263.129                40                      46,852,841      268,388         
00800.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           9263.129                45                      51,836,854      297,256         
00800.M2TS      4610 (0x1202)   0x90            PGS             fra (French)            9263.129                40                      46,093,613      264,351         
00800.M2TS      4611 (0x1203)   0x90            PGS             spa (Spanish)           9263.129                35                      40,154,924      230,492         
00800.M2TS      4612 (0x1204)   0x90            PGS             por (Portuguese)        9263.129                33                      38,209,461      219,930
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post #11 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 05:30 PM
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Is it me, or is the DVD unusually soft?

Welcome to Rivendell, Mister Anderson.
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post #12 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

Is it me, or is the DVD unusually soft?

It's a DVD? 1/6 the resolution...

I actually think this looks pretty good for a DVD.

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post #13 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post

It's a DVD? 1/6 the resolution...

I actually think this looks pretty good for a DVD.

Yeh exactly - I see people mentioning this all the time lately.... DVD is ooooooold technology and apart from some rare standout DVDs like Tron and Star Wars 2004's, most DVD's look like crap by today's standards.

But who cares what the DVD's of things look like these days anyway - the only point of putting them here is for a reference to show how good or bad the Blu-ray is - who seriously watches DVD's anymore? Especially when there is a Blu-ray available?
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post #14 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX View Post

who seriously watches DVD's anymore? Especially when there is a Blu-ray available?

1. If I am paying for it I want it to be the best quality possible for that medium.

2. Convenience, there are far more DVD capable playback devices than there are BR players. Be it for travel, for kids, lending, quick and easy rips for portable formats, etc.

3. DVD is far more useful and frequently better quality than Digital Copies, ugh despise those with a passion.

Whenever possible in my home theater BR is the primary format of choice but if a title is not available then a quality DVD will be sufficient.

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post #15 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 07:59 PM
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Yeh when i said 'seriously' watching DVDs i meant in a home theater environment.
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post #16 of 120 Old 10-01-2011, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX View Post

DVD is ooooooold technology and apart from some rare standout DVDs like Tron and Star Wars 2004's, most DVD's look like crap by today's standards.

But who cares what the DVD's of things look like these days anyway - the only point of putting them here is for a reference to show how good or bad the Blu-ray is - who seriously watches DVD's anymore? Especially when there is a Blu-ray available?

DVDs never leveraged the full capability of the format and were filtered to reduce artifacting on the interlaced displays of the time: if they had been encoded progressive 24p and maximised the bitrate (which would have been technically possible), I think such a DVD would give some Bluray titles a run for their money with a good upscaler.

I predict Bluray will never leverage the full potential of the format for many titles, because the studios will simply re-use existing masters generated for 1080i or even DVD to save money.

I care about DVD, because I doubt everything will make it to Bluray before they foist a new format onto the public: in which case DVD may be the best we will get for certain titles. There are likely still many titles that only exist on VHS and may never make it even to DVD.

Personally, I want the studios to call a halt to new formats and ensure that all existing material is converted to Bluray with the highest quality possible before adding another small increment format to dilute and confuse the market.

I feel the studios have and will continue to treat the enthusiast consumer with contempt.
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post #17 of 120 Old 10-02-2011, 03:44 PM
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Most corporations treat consumers (and their employees, the environment, etc.) with contempt as long as huge, pharaoh-like profits are all they care about. That won't change any time soon.

Sony has been trying to push for 4k-lite Blu-ray's using their larger capacity discs and the people behind the RED digital HD video camera claim to have a new, virtually transparent to the master compression algorithm to help save space (TDK has touted a 400 GB disc).

However, I bet if it ever comes to that, there'll be another BR vs. HD-DVD debacle that will also cripple adoption. Some other company won't want to share in the intellectual property rights payouts and say their media is 10x better than the new Blu-ray format. Yadda Yadda Yadda.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #18 of 120 Old 10-02-2011, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Most corporations treat consumers (and their employees, the environment, etc.) with contempt as long as huge, pharaoh-like profits are all they care about. That won't change any time soon.

Sony has been trying to push for 4k-lite Blu-ray's using their larger capacity discs and the people behind the RED digital HD video camera claim to have a new, virtually transparent to the master compression algorithm to help save space (TDK has touted a 400 GB disc).

However, I bet if it ever comes to that, there'll be another BR vs. HD-DVD debacle that will also cripple adoption. Some other company won't want to share in the intellectual property rights payouts and say their media is 10x better than the new Blu-ray format. Yadda Yadda Yadda.

Yup.

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post #19 of 120 Old 10-02-2011, 04:30 PM
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Quote:


Most corporations treat consumers (and their employees, the environment, etc.) with contempt as long as huge, pharaoh-like profits are all they care about. That won't change any time soon.

Well, thats kind of their job. If their consumers demanded higher quality (and their employees demanded higher wages) they might make less profits. Though then all their stockholders (who are also their employees and their consumers) would make less.
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post #20 of 120 Old 10-02-2011, 05:12 PM
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But now they don't listen to either... if you've seen a few of the leaked boardroom meetings from some top companies between the top brass and their shareholders and/or employees. We know what's best for profits... trust us... keep giving us salaries that would make God blush and the rewards will trickle down to you eventually...

Now there's a huge push around the country to bust what's left of the unions and collective bargaining. Plus the average take home pay has either stagnated or declined for years now, whilst mega-corporations are collectively sitting on trillions of assets and they pay either no taxes and/or get taxpayer bailouts for causing a world-wide financial meltdown.

It's getting really bad, like Industrial Revolution/Robber Baron bad, and only getting worse...

But now back to home theater stuff.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #21 of 120 Old 10-02-2011, 05:31 PM
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Now there's a huge push around the country to bust what's left of the unions and collective bargaining. Plus the average take home pay has either stagnated or declined for years now, whilst mega-corporations are collectively sitting on trillions of assets and they pay either no taxes and/or get taxpayer bailouts.

Manufacturing pay has stagnated. Skilled labor has increased. Mega-corporations are sitting on trillions of assets? Maybe the banks are, but that is because they are afraid of going under if they don't. Companies are responsible to their shareholders, thus their prime duty is to ensure the continued growth of their stock's prices. They cannot hold on to assets unless it maximizes the (risk adjusted) expected growth of their stock. Pay no taxes? Corporate income taxes in the US are 35 percent, the highest in the western world with the exception of ireland iirc. Tax payers paying for bailouts? Most (all?) of the bailout money was created by the Federal Reserve. It might cause inflation eventually, but it is not directly payed for by taxes.

If you are truly pissed off at the big corporations, buy their stock. Then you get to take their profits.

and yes, back to HT.
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post #22 of 120 Old 10-02-2011, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound dropouts View Post

Manufacturing pay has stagnated. Skilled labor has increased. Mega-corporations are sitting on trillions of assets? Maybe the banks are, but that is because they are afraid of going under if they don't. Companies are responsible to their shareholders, thus their prime duty is to ensure the continued growth of their stock's prices. They cannot hold on to assets unless it maximizes the (risk adjusted) expected growth of their stock. Pay no taxes? Corporate income taxes in the US are 35 percent, the highest in the western world with the exception of ireland iirc. Tax payers paying for bailouts? Most (all?) of the bailout money was created by the Federal Reserve. It might cause inflation eventually, but it is not directly payed for by taxes.

If you are truly pissed off at the big corporations, buy their stock. Then you get to take their profits.

and yes, back to HT.

"Officially" it's 35 percent. For many well connected companies it's either zero or less than zero. And they want a lower tax burden??

And you just wait on the coming inflation rates... they can't keep printing money to hide our problems forever. It's made of denim, so it grows on bushes, not trees.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #23 of 120 Old 10-02-2011, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

But now they don't listen to either... if you've seen a few of the leaked boardroom meetings from some top companies between the top brass and their shareholders and/or employees. We know what's best for profits... trust us... keep giving us salaries that would make God blush and the rewards will trickle down to you eventually...

Now there's a huge push around the country to bust what's left of the unions and collective bargaining. Plus the average take home pay has either stagnated or declined for years now, whilst mega-corporations are collectively sitting on trillions of assets and they pay either no taxes and/or get taxpayer bailouts for causing a world-wide financial meltdown.

It's getting really bad, like Industrial Revolution/Robber Baron bad, and only getting worse...

But now back to home theater stuff.

Good grief this drivel is just nauseating
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post #24 of 120 Old 10-02-2011, 06:11 PM
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Thanks for the screen caps xylon. Can't wait to check this out!
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post #25 of 120 Old 10-02-2011, 10:11 PM
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the dvd version on the 1st video has better color than the blu ray

SONY 32XBR6
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BD 40
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post #26 of 120 Old 10-02-2011, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

whilst mega-corporations are collectively sitting on trillions of assets and they pay either no taxes and/or get taxpayer bailouts for causing a world-wide financial meltdown.

This is ridiculously off-topic, so I apologize, but someone made a point to me that, despite my being pretty smart (IMO), I hadn't considered before:

Corporations will never pay taxes.

If you tax a corporation, they'll simply pass those taxes on in the prices of their product or services for consumers/businesses. We'll simply end up paying their taxes for them.

The correct way to deal with this is likely through heavy income taxes on those earning greater than $250,000/year (and I'd posit, additional tiers at $100,000 and $1,000,000), and ending the tax loopholes on income derived from savings/investments (those that Warren Buffet has talked about recently).

Anyways...

I've watched DOTM twice now, and I've gotta say it's an exceptional disc. I'm also glad they have that coupon in there to soften the blow when their real release comes out in another month or two. :P

Fight mediocrity: Insist on BD50 discs for all movies longer than 100 minutes, optimized video encodes that fully utilize the available space, lossless audio track, and new masters for catalog titles!
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post #27 of 120 Old 10-03-2011, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Corporations will never pay taxes.

If you tax a corporation, they'll simply pass those taxes on in the prices of their product or services for consumers/businesses. We'll simply end up paying their taxes for them.

The correct way to deal with this is likely through heavy income taxes on those earning greater than $250,000/year (and I'd posit, additional tiers at $100,000 and $1,000,000), and ending the tax loopholes on income derived from savings/investments (those that Warren Buffet has talked about recently).

Corporations do pay taxes. They pass some of the taxes on to the consumer, but unless there is inelastic demand for their product, they still end up paying some taxes. Of course, paying taxes means that there is less money with which to employ people and less money for stockholders. So I guess in a sense the consumer (who is also the employer and stockholder) still hurts from corporate taxes.

To keep this on topic, I am looking forward to seeing this disk for the pq and aq alone. I just hope the story is serviceable enough not to distract too much from the audio and video spectacle.
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post #28 of 120 Old 01-01-2012, 04:43 PM
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Xylon, you think you can capture some up close faces?

There also a scene where the bird transformer transforms in the garden. Very detailed scene with amazing high frequency information. Its transfers like these that make me question how much of difference will 4K be

home theater addict
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post #29 of 120 Old 01-03-2012, 04:48 AM
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Orange and Teal aside, it is a fantastic transfer, and one of the more immersive (seamless, 360°) soundtracks I've heard.
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post #30 of 120 Old 02-02-2012, 06:40 PM
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Marvel at the amazing disappearing and reappearing facial blemishes of Shia LaBeouf.



I posted in the main discussion thread mocking Michael Bay for saying the 3D version was "remastered" but I take it back.

I was hoping this release would correct the poor horizontal resolution on certain effects shots. It is a little better on some scenes (still worse than Vudu) but for the most part they just lowered it even more, along with vertical. On the plus side, there's no reason to worry about passive 3DTVs having lowered resolution when it's already been nuked at the source.

Weird thing I noticed: the 3D movie gets dimmer the longer it goes on. I exported the maximum luma values of every frame into a CSV and graphed it using Veusz (which was the only program I could find that would plot a graph from a data set of 220k values).

Code:
DirectShowSource("Y:\\BDMV\\STREAM\\00800.m2ts",audio=false)
WriteFile("Dark of the Moon luma.csv", "current_frame", """ "," """, "YPlaneMax")


Again, these are the maximums for each frame, not averages. It starts off with brightness slightly clamped but gets crazy low later on.



The last frame with brightness values that reach anywhere close to normal levels is at 42:08. At a point later in the movie, even frames that are almost entirely composed of flashes, sparks, and explosions top out at 150 on the 16-235 scale.

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