Pirates of the Caribbean On Stranger Tides - (2D) Blu-ray - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 62 Old 10-24-2011, 03:18 PM
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Yeah, I'l pick this up when the price gets reasonable....as a Completist, I have to.

Funny, I am the same way. Have a lot of really crappy part 3's...

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post #32 of 62 Old 10-24-2011, 03:25 PM
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Funny, I am the same way. Have a lot of really crappy part 3's...

So do I!

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post #33 of 62 Old 10-24-2011, 03:54 PM
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^^OCD not just for breakfast anymore..
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post #34 of 62 Old 10-24-2011, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ZebraMajor View Post

Elisabeth Swan IS the main character of the first three pirates movies (Jack Sparrow, while central to the story, is not the main character). She has a well-defined character arc that shows her rejecting the confining society life expected of her for the adventure and freedom of the pirate life. She has three suitors to choose from (Will, Jack and Norrington), each one representing a particular kind of life to pursue. By the end of the trilogy she's become a Pirate Queen who is directly responsible for deciding the future fate of all pirates. She also puts men in the seats.

I get that. My point was more related to carrying the movie so to speak. It's Johnny Depp's show (and Geoffrey Rush to an extent). As much as Elisabeth can be considered the main character, remove Jack from the whole affair and there's no POTC. Stranger Tides proved (at least financially!) that the franchise can very much work with new characters, but certainly not without Jack. Besides, who knows maybe we'll learn more from Angelica in POTC 5, thus expanding her own character arc to something a little more complex than Jack's hot ex.
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post #35 of 62 Old 10-24-2011, 06:26 PM
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Yeah that's like saying Transformers was about Sam Witwicky with Optimus Prime the "supporting" character. Sure he's the main human lead but take the robots out and it's a pretty crappy movie series. Well, more so than it already is.
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post #36 of 62 Old 10-24-2011, 07:01 PM
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Yeah that's like saying Transformers was about Sam Witwicky with Optimus Prime the "supporting" character.

And that's a completely accurate statement.
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post #37 of 62 Old 10-24-2011, 07:12 PM
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Yeah, 'cause everybody went to TF to see Shia.

I didn't think this film was all bad. I'll agree it's not as good as the first three, but it's okay for what it is. It didn't really aspire to be anything else.

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post #38 of 62 Old 10-24-2011, 08:31 PM
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Yeah, 'cause everybody went to TF to see Shia.

Doesn't matter, he was the main character of the story.
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post #39 of 62 Old 10-24-2011, 09:09 PM
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People must seperate the main star and the main character. They are not always the same. Indiana Jones is the main character and the main star. But Han Solo isnt the main character, but he is main star, a difference that got more clear for each movie.

You could argue that R2D2 and 3CPO are the main characters of EpIV, but Luke Skywalker is the main character of the trilogy and Darth Vader is the main character of the entire Saga.

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post #40 of 62 Old 10-24-2011, 10:23 PM
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I didn't think this film was all bad. I'll agree it's not as good as the first three, but it's okay for what it is. It didn't really aspire to be anything else.

And therein lies the problem. The first film was a fun adventure film, but it also took itself seriously. The first two sequels also did the same, and it shows. This one almost seemed like it was made with far less caring for the story or the characters. The whole film just felt uneven when I saw it, and most of the new roles didn't come across too well. Blackbeard was believable as a selfish and greedy murderer, but there was nothing deeper to him. Angelica's history with Jack felt forced, and everything else appeared to be included for next to no other reason except "looking cool". This could've been the best of them all, but it really missed the mark, IMO.

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post #41 of 62 Old 10-25-2011, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4 View Post

And therein lies the problem. The first film was a fun adventure film, but it also took itself seriously. The first two sequels also did the same, and it shows. This one almost seemed like it was made with far less caring for the story or the characters. The whole film just felt uneven when I saw it, and most of the new roles didn't come across too well. Blackbeard was believable as a selfish and greedy murderer, but there was nothing deeper to him. Angelica's history with Jack felt forced, and everything else appeared to be included for next to no other reason except "looking cool". This could've been the best of them all, but it really missed the mark, IMO.

The real secret to P1 was the CHARACTERS....everything else was secondary.

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post #42 of 62 Old 10-25-2011, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

The real secret to P1 was the CHARACTERS....everything else was secondary.

No. It was the attraction of the Disney ride with the same name & the performance of JS' character. Everything else was secondary.
They could have made Will and Eliz 2 stout pigmy trolls in love with the same story and it still would have done well as long as the climax, battle and sea creatures/ghosts remaind static.

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post #43 of 62 Old 10-25-2011, 07:10 AM
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No. It was the attraction of the Disney ride with the same name...

Yeah... that's why the Haunted Mansion was received so well at the theaters...
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post #44 of 62 Old 10-25-2011, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

No. It was the attraction of the Disney ride with the same name & the performance of JS' character. Everything else was secondary.

The rest of the production must work aswell, there were a good cast that surrounded the JS character. JS isnt much if he hasnt anyone to integrate with. And the setting must be believable. Then there is also the issue of making the movie in the right time. There was a need in the market for a good piratemovie.

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post #45 of 62 Old 10-25-2011, 01:03 PM
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There was a need in the market for a good piratemovie.

A need?

Previous attempt at pirates/swashbuckling adventures weren't particularly successful if I'm not mistaken (Polanski's Pirates decades ago, Cutthroat Island...) I think Disney made a huge guess with POTC and it paid off, simply because it's a pretty good movie. Disney wasn't even fond of Johhny Depp's approach. I guess now they're fine with it
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post #46 of 62 Old 10-25-2011, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

A need?

Previous attempt at pirates/swashbuckling adventures weren't particularly successful if I'm not mistaken (Polanski's Pirates decades ago, Cutthroat Island...) I think Disney made a huge guess with POTC and it paid off, simply because it's a pretty good movie. Disney wasn't even fond of Johhny Depp's approach. I guess now they're fine with it

Cutthroat Island = pure poop.
Tried to watch it (again) the other day.
WOW, what an embarrassment for everyone involved.

No doubt after making a jillion bucks, it is a safe bet Disney absolutely LOVES Depp's approach to the character.

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post #47 of 62 Old 10-25-2011, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

A need?

Previous attempt at pirates/swashbuckling adventures weren't particularly successful if I'm not mistaken (Polanski's Pirates decades ago, Cutthroat Island...) I think Disney made a huge guess with POTC and it paid off, simply because it's a pretty good movie. Disney wasn't even fond of Johhny Depp's approach. I guess now they're fine with it

A need for a good pirate movie. That there were piratemovies before, didnt take away the need for a pirate movie like POTC.

POTC hit the mark in terms of its craftmanship. The tone of the movie was just right.

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post #48 of 62 Old 10-25-2011, 01:27 PM
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^^OCD not just for breakfast anymore..

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post #49 of 62 Old 10-25-2011, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

I get that. My point was more related to carrying the movie so to speak. It's Johnny Depp's show (and Geoffrey Rush to an extent). As much as Elisabeth can be considered the main character, remove Jack from the whole affair and there's no POTC. Stranger Tides proved (at least financially!) that the franchise can very much work with new characters, but certainly not without Jack. Besides, who knows maybe we'll learn more from Angelica in POTC 5, thus expanding her own character arc to something a little more complex than Jack's hot ex.

Remove Jack Sparrow from POTC and it certainly becomes a very different movie and probably a worse one but it doesn't mean a rejiggered story with Elisabeth and Will vs. Barbosa alone (no Jack) couldn't work. The focus would certainly shift more towards Rush and Will/Elisabeth would've been recast with higher wattage stars to balance it out.

That said, I'm not disagreeing with what you said above. Introducing Angelica as the recurring "old" flame" is a familiar story device that can serve the relaunching of the franchise very well. There wasn't a lot of meat on those bones in On Stanger Tides but they can certainly expand on it.
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post #50 of 62 Old 10-29-2011, 08:30 AM
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Stranger tides was the worst of the 4. Sparrow doesnt work as the lead character, some of his edge gets lost.

Yup. I commented, about 1/3 to half-way thru the movie, something along the lines of "Gee, this is kind of disappointing" and my wife replied "What happened to Depp's character?" None of the characters in IV seemed as sharply-defined, as charismatic, as present as those in I-III.

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I actually likes the third movie alot more since I saw the fourth one.

I had to laugh at that because the very same thought occurred to me. We did not expect II and III to be quite as good as I, and we were not disappointed. They weren't. But they were entertaining in their own right and we watched each of them again. We expected IV to be about as good as II and III.

Not. Even. Close.

But IV did accomplish one thing: We look back on II and III more favourably, now.

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What was Keira Knightley's character exact purpose then, besides making the overall story bigger and putting men in the seats?

The Keira Knightly character was far more interesting and, IMO, far hotter than the Penelope Cruz character. Not even in the same league. In fact...

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As I said above... the mermaid was one of the coolest characters of the bunch and they barely utilized that character to her fullest potential.

The mermaid kept me in my seat far more effectively than the Penelope Cruz character. I found the former fascinating and engaging. The latter was predictable, flat (hold the jokes) and thoroughly uninteresting.

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Yeah, I'l pick this up when the price gets reasonable....as a Completist, I have to.

One of the reasons we bought it, sight unseen. But had we known how bad it was, I think we could've resisted the urge. We basically feel cheated.

The next night we decided to watch a movie from the library. I asked my wife "What do you feel like?" and she responded "Something good!"

Jim
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post #51 of 62 Old 10-29-2011, 02:21 PM
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The Keira Knightly character was far more interesting and, IMO, far hotter than the Penelope Cruz character. Not even in the same league. In fact...

I agree, but yet I think it's kinda promising that we get to know a real, genuine old flame of Jack, and not just an obscure tortuga chick; it could make for an interesting development in future movies. But well, I'm biased, even the weakest POTC remains very enjoyable to me.
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post #52 of 62 Old 10-29-2011, 05:07 PM
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and not just an obscure tortuga chick

But that's the best kind.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #53 of 62 Old 11-02-2011, 08:57 AM
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Well, I enjoyed the movie. Blackbeard and his daughter was an interesting dynamic. I was hoping that maybe they would have him grow as a character though, and have him sacrifice himself for his daughter, but that didn't happen. What was up with his ability to control ropes with his sword?

Angelica Teach had some interesting potential, and I hope that they build on that. I was a little disappointed with Jack's solution for her, but the scene after the credits makes me think that she will be back.

My favorite of the new characters were the missionary and the mermaid. Their whole story was compelling and interesting. However, I wonder if we will ever see them again. For some reason, I thought that Astrid Berges-Frisbey was Anna Popplewell for the Narnia movies.

Kieth Richards and Richard Griffiths were great in this film for their cameo scenes. While Barbossa and Gibbs were a bit of a letdown this film, especially Barbossa. Maybe they were just trying to portray him as a sadder older man after losing the Black Pearl between films, but it seems like he has aged ten to fifteen years between the films.

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post #54 of 62 Old 11-02-2011, 09:36 AM
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, but it seems like he has aged ten to fifteen years between the films.

Its REDs fault.

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post #55 of 62 Old 11-02-2011, 10:36 AM
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she responded "Something good!"

Jim

Well, I guess that says it all.

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post #56 of 62 Old 04-18-2012, 04:58 AM
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Film wouldn't have helped this movie one bit. The cinematography sucked, period.

You have got to be joking? And to think it is April 2012 and no one else here has called you up on it is astonishing. I want you to think about what you said because it is so untrue for one and a blatant insult to a great cinematographer.

The cinematography was brilliant. And to say it sucked considering that Ridley Scott is using Dariusz Wolski on Prometheus says it all!

Dariusz Wolski is one of the best Cinematographers in the industry and has worked with the greatest directors.

Do people just criticise for the sake of it?

Very sad! No wonder forums get a bad name. Unqualified opinions straight from the...
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post #57 of 62 Old 04-18-2012, 05:09 AM
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Incidentally, On Stranger Tides was so enjoyable and had a good sense of humour.

Ian McShane as Blackbeard was fantastic and had a lot of weight in his performance as well as presence. The comparisson to Bill Nighly is unfounded.
He is a great actor and added to the lore of the series no question.

But the film flows well from beginning to end. I personally liked it as much as the first film. A lot of work went into this production and the casting was fantastic.

Penelope Cruz was an inspired choice and I so hope she is in the next film. Very beautiful and talented. In fact the whole cast worked so well and the mermaid inclusion was interesting.

Sometimes we make up our minds about a film from what critics observe and stick to that. But the reality is that Pirates 4 is a strong addition to the series and in no way is it a bad movie.
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post #58 of 62 Old 04-18-2012, 09:23 PM
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When I saw this in a theater I was like hmmm. After watching it on blue (3D) I like it much much more. Knowing how I'm like that I give movies that I didn't like first time another chance. Now, there is nothing I don't like about it. There are no dull scenes and it does flow very well. The mermaids were a very good addition. I I'm looking forward to the next installment.
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post #59 of 62 Old 04-20-2012, 05:56 AM
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When I saw this in a theater I was like hmmm. After watching it on blue (3D) I like it much much more. Knowing how I'm like that I give movies that I didn't like first time another chance. Now, there is nothing I don't like about it. There are no dull scenes and it does flow very well. The mermaids were a very good addition. I I'm looking forward to the next installment.


Exactly the same for me. I was able to watch it beginning to end and be totally immersed in the story. And the photogtraphy was stunning.

One franchise that so far has been consistently of a high quality and not a cheap cash in.
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post #60 of 62 Old 04-20-2012, 06:12 AM
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Hmmm. I thought the movie was a disposable bit of fluff, but I've started to enjoy it a bit more on subsequent viewings. Now that I've got a 3D display, I'm wondering if I should get the 3D version. If I'm gonna own it (although it was a retail copy supplied for review, so I didn't have to actually pay money for it) then I may as well get the stereo version.
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