The Deer Hunter - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 114 Old 03-10-2012, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Alkaline View Post

In short, not at all. Based on what I've read it seems to fall between MPEG-2 and AVC as far as efficiency (closer to AVC). So in a "complex" or high grain/noise scenario, VC-1 would probably need a slightly higher bitrate than AVC to look just as good, all other factors/settings equal. Likewise on such material at an equal bitrate, VC-1 may look slightly weaker/not resolve everything as well in an A/B comparison (other times no difference, depending on the material). This is, again, what I've been led to believe just doing some reading around. It's not the codec at fault here - it's the dated master and mediocre bitrate. Even MPEG-2 can look superb in HD. All three can look top notch with quality source material + quality encode, but things are apparently "easiest" for AVC.

Interesting...thanx for that.

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post #92 of 114 Old 03-10-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InspectorToschi View Post

I see no loss in detail on Unis disc.

Not even in amoergosum's chosen crop?

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ss=1#vergleich

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post #93 of 114 Old 03-11-2012, 03:51 AM
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There's some marks on the road which are gone, too.
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post #94 of 114 Old 03-11-2012, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

Its also amazing how many times over sharpened grain and artifacts in the master get confused for actual natural film grain.

Yes, I admit that I am not very good at distinguishing between the two of them myself. Are there any resources available to help educate those who wish to do so? Perhaps a comparison between what grain looks like versus noise?
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post #95 of 114 Old 03-11-2012, 09:52 AM
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Watched this last night. There were some scenes with grain of the kind of splotchy DNR'd variety, and plenty of scenes that were just about totally smooth. Detail seemed OK. Not awful, but OK for Universal standards (which of course is a different standard than just about everyone else).

I was more concerned about the color though which seemed oversaturated, faces sometimes leaning to pink, red lips, etc. I could be wrong and my display is out of whack, I dunno but everything else looks ok on it.
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post #96 of 114 Old 03-11-2012, 10:08 AM
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I seem to remember that the colour didn't look consistently saturated on the HD DVD (slightly orange faces, red lips etc) and if that's been boosted for the BD then it must look quite odd at times.

Robert Harris has praised the Blu-ray over at the HTF, but it's the typically blunt remarks of haineshisway that I'm waiting for, to tell us whether we're right on the money or a bunch of clueless idiots.
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post #97 of 114 Old 03-11-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette View Post

Yes, I admit that I am not very good at distinguishing between the two of them myself. Are there any resources available to help educate those who wish to do so? Perhaps a comparison between what grain looks like versus noise?

I don't think there's just one variety of noise that happens on blu-rays so that's hard to say. But the granularity of the negative varies with the colors and exposure on the film. If a bright daytime sky looks like it's covered in gnats, or if the whole image seems to be overlaid with a homogenous layer of crud, I'm dubious that's what's on the negative.
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post #98 of 114 Old 03-11-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

If a bright daytime sky looks like it's covered in gnats, or if the whole image seems to be overlaid with a homogenous layer of crud, I'm dubious that's what's on the negative.

The problem is none of us on the forum can know what the source materials for a BD REALLY look like....
And of course, we bicker back and forth without any true knowledge of the facts.
But, hey....that's the internet.

Either we like the finished product or we don't.

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post #99 of 114 Old 03-11-2012, 11:50 PM
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Just watched the BD.

Firstly, although oversaturated, the video looked fairly good IMO.

Secondly, the audio is lousy...flat flat flat, dialog often hard to understand.

Thirdly, in spite of some great cinematography, this movie is just too damn long.
In spite of a relatively simple story, the movie is unnecessarily drawn out.

I hadn't seen in it in many years and it was fun to see it again.

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post #100 of 114 Old 03-11-2012, 11:53 PM
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Just watched the BD.

Firstly, although oversaturated, the video looked fairly good IMO.

Secondly, the audio is lousy...flat flat flat, dialog often not understood.

Thirdly, in spite of some great cinematography, this movie is just too damn long.
In spite of a story that is a relatively simple one, the movie is unnecessarily drawn out.

I hadn't seen in it in many years and was fun to see again.

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post #101 of 114 Old 03-12-2012, 04:21 PM
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post #102 of 114 Old 03-12-2012, 04:46 PM
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Big difference.
And you reminded me of how Melancholia was denied a BP nomination...

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post #103 of 114 Old 03-12-2012, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

The problem is none of us on the forum can know what the source materials for a BD REALLY look like....

It's not that much of a mystery; film tends to look like film until Universal has their way with it A quick google for interviews with the DP will also tell you that the Vietnam parts are heavily pushed for a gritty documentary look, so they should be grainy and contrasty.
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post #104 of 114 Old 03-13-2012, 08:16 AM
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Ah yes, I'd forgotten about Zsigmond's predilection for flashing and push processing. That means grain, desaturated colours and reduced contrast, all of which are enemies to be destroyed by the good ship Universal.
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post #105 of 114 Old 03-13-2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:

Thanks for the High Def Digest review. Despite the mostly high marks the reviewer gave The Deer Hunter BD, I will pass. I am not terribly concerned about Universal's transfer but the review reminded me of the film's legendarily impenetrable dialog, which has always made me CRAZY. I was hoping that HD audio might have cleaned it up but I guess not. Here is the money quote from the High Def Digest review:
Quote:


The track's main negative remains the muffled dialogue that has always been 'The Deer Hunter's Achilles heel. Overlapping conversations or those that try and compete with street, party, or battle sounds are almost impossible to comprehend, as are hushed exchanges. When Michael and Nick plot to ambush their captors in the river cage, I could barely make out a word, and the talk at the wedding and in the bar, though not essential, was often obscured. Boosting the volume, unfortunately, doesn't help.

Just so! I still remember unsuccessfully trying to figure out what was being said at the wedding and in the bar
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post #106 of 114 Old 03-13-2012, 10:10 AM
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The US Blu is smoother.
Anyone that thinks that "smoother" is more "filmlike"...

"I wonder if any of the releases had slipcovers though."
"Are these comfirmed to have slipcovers?"
"They look nice in those slips."
"This slipcover looks too good to pass up."
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post #107 of 114 Old 03-13-2012, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Thanks for the High Def Digest review. Despite the mostly high marks the reviewer gave The Deer Hunter BD, I will pass. I am not terribly concerned about Universal's transfer but the review reminded me of the film's legendarily impenetrable dialog, which has always made me CRAZY. I was hoping that HD audio might have cleaned it up but I guess not

Heavens Gate had a similar problem only it was even harder to hear what was being said by virtually everyone, makes you wonder if Cimino had some sort of hearing disability.
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post #108 of 114 Old 03-13-2012, 04:07 PM
 
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Heavens Gate had a similar problem only it was even harder to hear what was being said by virtually everyone, makes you wonder if Cimino had some sort of hearing disability.

He had a few problems, the best directors do
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post #109 of 114 Old 03-13-2012, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Thanks for the High Def Digest review. Despite the mostly high marks the reviewer gave The Deer Hunter BD, I will pass. I am not terribly concerned about Universal's transfer but the review reminded me of the film's legendarily impenetrable dialog, which has always made me CRAZY. I was hoping that HD audio might have cleaned it up but I guess not. Here is the money quote from the High Def Digest review:

Just so! I still remember unsuccessfully trying to figure out what was being said at the wedding and in the bar

The review is spot on in regards to the audio.
It is amazingly poor....and NOT just the dialog.

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post #110 of 114 Old 03-14-2012, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

He had a few problems, the best directors do

With their hearing ?
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post #111 of 114 Old 03-14-2012, 02:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by stwrt22 View Post


With their hearing ?

Issues in general
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post #112 of 114 Old 03-14-2012, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Thanks for the High Def Digest review. Despite the mostly high marks the reviewer gave The Deer Hunter BD, I will pass. I am not terribly concerned about Universal's transfer but the review reminded me of the film's legendarily impenetrable dialog, which has always made me CRAZY. I was hoping that HD audio might have cleaned it up but I guess not. Here is the money quote from the High Def Digest review:

Just so! I still remember unsuccessfully trying to figure out what was being said at the wedding and in the bar

I just watched this for the first time (on HD DVD) and enjoyed it very much. I hadn't noticed the muffled dialogue as much since I habitually watch most movies with subtitles turned on. It always drove me crazy whenever I didn't understand everything that was being said, so I just starting leaving them on. I guess it's easier for me to strain my eyes than my ears, lol.
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post #113 of 114 Old 08-05-2012, 12:55 AM
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Listening to the Studio Canal 2.0 soundtrack, in the scene where they have just arrived at the hunting spot, and Stan has just pulled out his hand gun (fooling around) and asks Mike if he can borrow his shoes, and the audio suddenly gets REAL tinny and echoey.

I had it on some sort of surround mix from the receiver so I changed the receiver to output at a proper 2.0 and the echo problem disappeared, but still at that point there is a real shift in the audio - Stan's voice seems to suddenly get more loud/dominant and the background noises noticeably drop off (although still present). I compared this to my DVD and there was no such change in voice and background levels.

Anyone else noticed this? It is not really that significant, and had I not been correcting the echo problem and re-testing that scene, I might have not even thought twice about it.
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post #114 of 114 Old 08-10-2012, 07:56 AM
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Updating the audio info - I also tried it on my PC with just 2 cheap stereo speakers and the louder voice/quieter background effect was replicated.

Regarding my main system (PS3 and amp) where I first noticed it, I had cheapie speakers hooked up at the time. I have now hooked up my quality speakers to the amp - and the echo/tinny effect is still there in surround mode, but playing on true 2 channel output the louder voice/quieter background effect is either barely noticeable or completely gone.... So on my good speakers this plays like a charm.




I am actually blown away by the PQ. At 100 inches it is INCREDIBLE - Fine detail is AMAZING. BETTER IMO than many super popular titles.
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