MGM Hitchcock on Blu-ray - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 84 Old 01-18-2012, 04:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wuther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

Yes. Multiplicative chain.

Ok, but what in the images clues you in to this problem? For the King Kong (1933) BD it's rather apparent but I find it harder to see it in these titles, for all I know they could have been scanned several years ago.
wuther is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 84 Old 01-19-2012, 02:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mhafner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Ok, but what in the images clues you in to this problem? For the King Kong (1933) BD it's rather apparent but I find it harder to see it in these titles, for all I know they could have been scanned several years ago.

Just look at how sharp and well defined real word and grain detail is. And compare to other scans from other 35mm films of comparable age and style. There have been several restorations released on BD from camera negatives as a reference point of what is possible.
mhafner is offline  
post #33 of 84 Old 01-19-2012, 04:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wuther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 24
More:
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompare/notorious.htm
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompare/spellbound.htm

I know dvd is a poor thing to go by but the Criterion Spellbound grey levels and texture look very similar to the BD and the Criterion was released in 2002 making me suspect they are the same master. Don't get wrong, the BD looks great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

Just look at how sharp and well defined real word and grain detail is. And compare to other scans from other 35mm films of comparable age and style. There have been several restorations released on BD from camera negatives as a reference point of what is possible.

I have seen some raw footage of current film so I know it should be crisp like Wizard of Oz, too sharp for me is a red flag for automatic filtering. And that's the problem, so many catalog titles are processed, sometimes heavily or just plain done too long ago that judging generation copy issues is hard.
wuther is offline  
post #34 of 84 Old 01-23-2012, 08:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Rach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Price is too high to upgrade from DVD. Very surprising to me that these are not sub-$15.
Rach is offline  
post #35 of 84 Old 01-23-2012, 10:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
deltasun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Costco has these titles for $9.99 each.

You see me reaching for my f****** wallet?!?
deltasun is offline  
post #36 of 84 Old 01-23-2012, 10:42 AM
Senior Member
 
Bruce Patterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tropics
Posts: 498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltasun View Post

Costco has these titles for $9.99 each.

Wow great news thanks!

I'm not crazy!  My mother had me tested...

Bruce Patterson is offline  
post #37 of 84 Old 01-24-2012, 06:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Rach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltasun View Post

Costco has these titles for $9.99 each.

For $9.99, I'm there!!!!
Rach is offline  
post #38 of 84 Old 01-24-2012, 06:50 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 22,291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rach View Post

Price is too high to upgrade from DVD. Very surprising to me that these are not sub-$15.

The images look like some of the least SD to HD improvement I've seen.

Art

My HT


iRule rules my theater
 

"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

Bob Marley

Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #39 of 84 Old 01-24-2012, 03:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
egrady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Posts: 1,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I got all three at Costco today for $9.99. I'll give Notorious a look tonight on my RS35/Stewart Studiotek 130.
egrady is offline  
post #40 of 84 Old 01-24-2012, 04:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wuther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

The images look like some of the least SD to HD improvement I've seen.

As opposed to what BD of films from that era? Going to put a 65/70mm as an example?
wuther is offline  
post #41 of 84 Old 01-24-2012, 04:43 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 256
Just received mine. I'm so thrilled (even before watching them). I love the cinematography in these films!
R Harkness is offline  
post #42 of 84 Old 01-24-2012, 06:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Bruce Patterson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tropics
Posts: 498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by egrady View Post

I got all three at Costco today for $9.99 EACH.

Ditto.

I'm not crazy!  My mother had me tested...

Bruce Patterson is offline  
post #43 of 84 Old 01-25-2012, 08:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
egrady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Posts: 1,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I viewed selected scenes from Rebecca and Notorious. If there was any digital tampering with the image I couldn't see it. Both looked unfiltered. In fact, they resembled the raw, unprocessed look I've seen on the better Criterian B&W releases.

Rebecca looked very good. Good contrast, shadow detail and reasonably good detail. Notorious was disappointing. It looked like a decent DVD rather than HD. While I don't have the Criterian DVD, I suspect a direct comparison wouldn't show much additional detail. It's not that it was filtered away, it just looks like the elements don't have the detail they did in 1946.
egrady is offline  
post #44 of 84 Old 01-25-2012, 12:05 PM
Advanced Member
 
Flexx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: South Florida
Posts: 856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by egrady View Post

I got all three at Costco today for $9.99. I'll give Notorious a look tonight on my RS35/Stewart Studiotek 130.

+ 1.

Kind of in shock. Great price, and I was already there. Talk about an impulse buy...

However, I am replacing the horrid studio-designed covers with these gorgeous ones:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/5713718-post9092.html
Flexx is offline  
post #45 of 84 Old 01-25-2012, 12:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
deltasun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexx View Post

+ 1.

Kind of in shock. Great price, and I was already there. Talk about an impulse buy...

However, I am replacing the horrid studio-designed covers with these gorgeous ones:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/5713718-post9092.html

Wow, gorgeous covers.

You see me reaching for my f****** wallet?!?
deltasun is offline  
post #46 of 84 Old 01-25-2012, 12:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spectator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,036
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltasun View Post

Wow, gorgeous covers.

It always amazes me how little some of these fantastic original promotional images (posters, etc.) are used. The design work is already done- and beautifully- but they pay some Photoshop jock to spit out a half-hour's turd, instead.

I don't feel special...
spectator is offline  
post #47 of 84 Old 01-25-2012, 12:28 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post


It always amazes me how little some of these fantastic original promotional images (posters, etc.) are used. The design work is already done- and beautifully- but they pay some Photoshop jock to spit out a half-hour's turd, instead.

That's why we have the customs thread
dvdmike007 is offline  
post #48 of 84 Old 01-25-2012, 12:47 PM
CHG
Advanced Member
 
CHG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltasun View Post

Costco has these titles for $9.99 each.

After having no luck yesterday at Costco, I found them today at another Costco near me. Picked all three up.
CHG is offline  
post #49 of 84 Old 01-26-2012, 07:52 AM
Advanced Member
 
Strevlac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Watched Notorious last night. I couldn't be more happy with how it turned out. Miles better than the Criterion DVD.
Strevlac is offline  
post #50 of 84 Old 01-27-2012, 09:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Rach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
For those of you without a Costco card, WalMart has each movie for 13.99. Reasonable!
Rach is offline  
post #51 of 84 Old 01-30-2012, 03:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Leterface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Finally watched all these. I found Rebecca to have the best PQ. Notorious is ok. Spellbound is a very mixed bag - I'd say they did use very very different looking source material, but luckily the affected scenes seemed quite a few. I didn't really watch for the PQ's, but the films, but still did notice the PQ varieties in Spellbound.
Leterface is offline  
post #52 of 84 Old 01-31-2012, 05:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
egrady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Posts: 1,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by leterface View Post

finally watched all these. I found rebecca to have the best pq. Notorious is ok. Spellbound is a very mixed bag - i'd say they did use very very different looking source material, but luckily the affected scenes seemed quite a few. I didn't really watch for the pq's, but the films, but still did notice the pq varieties in spellbound.

+1
egrady is offline  
post #53 of 84 Old 01-31-2012, 10:38 AM
 
haineshisway's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 581
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leterface View Post

Finally watched all these. I found Rebecca to have the best PQ. Notorious is ok. Spellbound is a very mixed bag - I'd say they did use very very different looking source material, but luckily the affected scenes seemed quite a few. I didn't really watch for the PQ's, but the films, but still did notice the PQ varieties in Spellbound.

Okay, let's get specific, because reading this thread is more than a little frustrating. What specifically are YOUR problems with the PQ of Spellbound? What are these transfer "vagaries" you speak of. Once we know the specifics then a discussion can take place. One cannot have any sort of discussion based on generalities.
haineshisway is offline  
post #54 of 84 Old 01-31-2012, 11:54 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 22,291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 44
I watched Spellbound on Sunday evening. I really like this film anyway but the overall quality of the video is very very good IMO. The grain was quite variable but the images were generally quite clean.

I'd say if you enjoy films of this era as I do very much you will like what you see.

Be sure to watch High Anxiety to see professor Littleoldman.

Art

My HT


iRule rules my theater
 

"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

Bob Marley

Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #55 of 84 Old 01-31-2012, 01:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Leterface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by haineshisway View Post

Okay, let's get specific, because reading this thread is more than a little frustrating. What specifically are YOUR problems with the PQ of Spellbound? What are these transfer "vagaries" you speak of. Once we know the specifics then a discussion can take place. One cannot have any sort of discussion based on generalities.

This about sums what I meant:
" Where damage and other age-related issues of wear and tear make their presence felt, they do so without any untoward level of distraction.

Ironically, there are instances of vertical lines appearing on the frame, conjuring-up thoughts of the effect seeing these would have upon Peck's character if he caught sight of them.*"
Leterface is offline  
post #56 of 84 Old 01-31-2012, 03:07 PM
 
haineshisway's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 581
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leterface View Post

This about sums what I meant:
" Where damage and other age-related issues of wear and tear make their presence felt, they do so without any untoward level of distraction.

Ironically, there are instances of vertical lines appearing on the frame, conjuring-up thoughts of the effect seeing these would have upon Peck's character if he caught sight of them.*"

I'm not looking for general comments - I'm looking for specific instances of what you consider "vagaries." Because I have to tell you, there really aren't any. This film looks as good as it's ever looked, and I've seen it many times, from original 35mm release prints to 16mm - I believe the "vagaries" you speak of are inherent to the source material and not a transfer issue. There are a lot of opticals in this film - those look exactly like opticals. There is work with diffusion filters and that looks like it should. There is no wear and tear other than some very light scratches during the first few minutes.

What I'm trying to do here is point out a rather flawless transfer. Transfers get blamed all the time for what turns out to be the way the film was made, photographed, etc. Those are not transfer issues. Spellbound looks great on Blu-ray, but the only people who'd really know that for sure are people who are well acquainted with the look of the film from seeing it ON film, not home video.
haineshisway is offline  
post #57 of 84 Old 01-31-2012, 04:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
egrady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Posts: 1,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by haineshisway View Post

I'm not looking for general comments - I'm looking for specific instances of what you consider "vagaries." Because I have to tell you, there really aren't any. This film looks as good as it's ever looked, and I've seen it many times, from original 35mm release prints to 16mm - I believe the "vagaries" you speak of are inherent to the source material and not a transfer issue. There are a lot of opticals in this film - those look exactly like opticals. There is work with diffusion filters and that looks like it should. There is no wear and tear other than some very light scratches during the first few minutes.

What I'm trying to do here is point out a rather flawless transfer. Transfers get blamed all the time for what turns out to be the way the film was made, photographed, etc. Those are not transfer issues. Spellbound looks great on Blu-ray, but the only people who'd really know that for sure are people who are well acquainted with the look of the film from seeing it ON film, not home video.

This illustrates a difficult issue. Something can look as good as it possibly can and still look average. Or worse. Of the three, Rebecca looks the best. Whether it simply had the best elements or not I don't know. Notorious looks much more like SD, but I'm sure it wasn't the transfer. Regardless, I'm not sure I agree that the transfer is always blamed for poor results.

Unless it's a catalog title from Universal.
egrady is offline  
post #58 of 84 Old 01-31-2012, 05:02 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 22,291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by haineshisway View Post

I'm not looking for general comments - I'm looking for specific instances of what you consider "vagaries." Because I have to tell you, there really aren't any. This film looks as good as it's ever looked, and I've seen it many times, from original 35mm release prints to 16mm - I believe the "vagaries" you speak of are inherent to the source material and not a transfer issue. There are a lot of opticals in this film - those look exactly like opticals. There is work with diffusion filters and that looks like it should. There is no wear and tear other than some very light scratches during the first few minutes.

What I'm trying to do here is point out a rather flawless transfer. Transfers get blamed all the time for what turns out to be the way the film was made, photographed, etc. Those are not transfer issues. Spellbound looks great on Blu-ray, but the only people who'd really know that for sure are people who are well acquainted with the look of the film from seeing it ON film, not home video.

Nice post ! Unfortunately it's black and white ,academy AR, and has visible grain.


Art

My HT


iRule rules my theater
 

"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

Bob Marley

Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #59 of 84 Old 01-31-2012, 05:44 PM
Advanced Member
 
Strevlac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by egrady View Post

Notorious looks much more like SD

My copy of Notorious looks nothing like standard definition.
Strevlac is offline  
post #60 of 84 Old 01-31-2012, 05:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wuther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leterface View Post

Ironically, there are instances of vertical lines appearing on the frame, conjuring-up thoughts of the effect seeing these would have upon Peck's character if he caught sight of them.*"

Maybe I am misreading you, are you saying sometimes the print damage enhances the mood of a certain shots? A technique some directors have done although I not saying that about Spellbound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haineshisway View Post

What I'm trying to do here is point out a rather flawless transfer. Transfers get blamed all the time for what turns out to be the way the film was made, photographed, etc. Those are not transfer issues. Spellbound looks great on Blu-ray, but the only people who'd really know that for sure are people who are well acquainted with the look of the film from seeing it ON film, not home video.

But that leaves out so many dvd reviewers and experts.
wuther is offline  
Reply Blu-ray Software

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off