Hammer restored classics coming to bluray - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 150 Old 08-09-2012, 03:05 PM
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Is it safe to buy Dracula- Prince of Darkness from Amazon Uk?

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
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post #92 of 150 Old 08-09-2012, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

Is it safe to buy Dracula- Prince of Darkness from Amazon Uk?

Yes. Amazon UK has only had the corrected version in stock for some time now. In fact, before the corrected copy was available, they had pulled all the initial versions.
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post #93 of 150 Old 08-09-2012, 09:45 PM
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nice.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
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post #94 of 150 Old 09-27-2012, 09:32 PM
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The Devil Rides Out has some redone special effects (with no option to see the originals). Hammer admits it on their Facebook page but disavows any comparisons to George Lucas because, uh, they say so.
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post #95 of 150 Old 09-27-2012, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Average View Post

The Devil Rides Out has some redone special effects (with no option to see the originals). Hammer admits it on their Facebook page but disavows any comparisons to George Lucas because, uh, they say so.

They are really dropping the ball on some of their key releases. The Dracula Prince Of Darkness DNR/audio sync debacle was bad but this is arguably worse. Every Hammer fan knows the effects for the scene in question are terrible but I don't think anyone would have complained if they simply had an option via seamless branching to watch either the (poorly) digitally corrected chapter or the original version. What are they thinking?

I am now more worried about how Curse of Frankenstein and Horror of Dracula are going to turn out.
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post #96 of 150 Old 10-01-2012, 10:08 AM
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BTW, here's an article that explains the "new" effects and includes some screen grab comparisons between the old dvd and new Blu-ray releases.

http://m.sfx.co.uk/2012/09/28/blog-enhanced-effects-restoration-or-desecration/

This is Hammer's reply to one persons' (not me) question about the re-do:

"Hammer Films - Hi Rick, in reply, it's about one film in particular, not multiple films. The reasoning behind the work is that key creatives who made the actual film were never happy with the finished result. The work we've done is about showing the film in the best possible way: fully restored and with some of the VFX shots enhanced. Nothing was re-shot and nothing was painted-out, which is why we use the word "enhanced" (not "replaced" or "re-created"). An early review compared the work with that of George Lucas on Star Wars and that comparison appears to have prompted very strong reactions from some fans. All we can do is repeat what we've always said: please watch the restored/enhanced version and make up your own mind. P.S. Enticing new audiences was definitely not our intent, though if the restoration brings a new audience to the film. surely that's a good thing?"
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post #97 of 150 Old 10-01-2012, 11:34 AM
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It would have been nice to include the original version, but I am not going to scream at Hammer for attempting to improve those horrible FX shots that were bad even when the movie was first released. The changes don't look that bad, simply going off the screenshots at the link above. This is one of my favorite Hammer movies and I am grateful it got released to Blu-ray at all.
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post #98 of 150 Old 10-01-2012, 11:59 AM
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"All we can do is repeat what we've always said: please watch the restored/enhanced version and make up your own mind."
They want us too buy it 1st, just too see how badd it is?!?!

"I wonder if any of the releases had slipcovers though."
"Are these comfirmed to have slipcovers?"
"They look nice in those slips."
"This slipcover looks too good to pass up."
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post #99 of 150 Old 10-01-2012, 07:29 PM
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"The reasoning behind the work is that key creatives who made the actual film are dead, so we can mess with it as much as we like."
I do not know how accurate the m.sfx.co.uk screenshots are, but first of all the 'new' caps are blasting bright. As for the 'fixes', the skull one is a joke.
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BTW, here's an article that explains the "new" effects and includes some screen grab comparisons between the old dvd and new Blu-ray releases.
http://m.sfx.co.uk/2012/09/28/blog-enhanced-effects-restoration-or-desecration/
This is Hammer's reply to one persons' (not me) question about the re-do:
"Hammer Films - Hi Rick, in reply, it's about one film in particular, not multiple films. The reasoning behind the work is that key creatives who made the actual film were never happy with the finished result. The work we've done is about showing the film in the best possible way: fully restored and with some of the VFX shots enhanced. Nothing was re-shot and nothing was painted-out, which is why we use the word "enhanced" (not "replaced" or "re-created"). An early review compared the work with that of George Lucas on Star Wars and that comparison appears to have prompted very strong reactions from some fans. All we can do is repeat what we've always said: please watch the restored/enhanced version and make up your own mind. P.S. Enticing new audiences was definitely not our intent, though if the restoration brings a new audience to the film. surely that's a good thing?"

Were is this Hammer reply? Their website has nothing on this.
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post #100 of 150 Old 10-15-2012, 12:42 PM
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On one of the Hammer Film's mailing lists, some very critical comments are starting to filter in about the quality of the just released UK "Curse Of Frankenstein" Blu-ray. Mostly about framing issues and mediocre image and washed out color leading some to say the older dvd version is actually superior.

Big debate here on Hammer's official blog:

http://blog.hammerfilms.com/?p=166#comments
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post #101 of 150 Old 10-15-2012, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partyslammer View Post

On one of the Hammer Film's mailing lists, some very critical comments are starting to filter in about the quality of the just released UK "Curse Of Frankenstein" Blu-ray. Mostly about framing issues and mediocre image and washed out color leading some to say the older dvd version is actually superior.
Big debate here on Hammer's official blog:
http://blog.hammerfilms.com/?p=166#comments

Mediocre image? You are not referring to the images in the matting examples are you? I doubt they represent what the BD looks like.
Myself, I am ok with 1:37 or 1:66 but not 1:77.
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post #102 of 150 Old 10-15-2012, 05:24 PM
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Mediocre image? You are not referring to the images in the matting examples are you? I doubt they represent what the BD looks like.
Myself, I am ok with 1:37 or 1:66 but not 1:77.

The 1:37 and 1:66 screen caps are from the just-released Blu-ray as noted in the article.

Having not seen the disc myself yet, I reserve judgement. Especially considering some of the comments seem ill-informed especially about supposed or preferred aspect ratios for this film. However, the print quality of those screen caps even if drastically compressed do not look encouraging.
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post #103 of 150 Old 10-15-2012, 07:40 PM
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Curse has long been cursed with a less-than-stellar presentation, going back to 16mm rental prints in the sixties. It's probably due to the Eastman Color, and there probably isn't much to be done about it frown.gif

CW Hinkle
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post #104 of 150 Old 10-16-2012, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partyslammer View Post

The 1:37 and 1:66 screen caps are from the just-released Blu-ray as noted in the article.
Having not seen the disc myself yet, I reserve judgement. Especially considering some of the comments seem ill-informed especially about supposed or preferred aspect ratios for this film. However, the print quality of those screen caps even if drastically compressed do not look encouraging.

The images in that article are far short of 1080p and not worth speculating on them as representing what the BD looks like, also I could not find any noting in the article that they are from the BD. The article also has images from other films not on BD.
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post #105 of 150 Old 10-16-2012, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wuther View Post

The images in that article are far short of 1080p and not worth speculating on them as representing what the BD looks like, also I could not find any noting in the article that they are from the BD. The article also has images from other films not on BD.

Where the CoF opening title cards are compared:

"Above can be seen the same main titles HOD (Heads Of Department) card at 1.37:1, 1.66:1 (both taken from our new Double Play release) and at 1.77:1 (taken from the WB DVD release)."

The "Double Play" release is the new Blu-ray/DVD set.
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post #106 of 150 Old 10-17-2012, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partyslammer View Post

Where the CoF opening title cards are compared:
"Above can be seen the same main titles HOD (Heads Of Department) card at 1.37:1, 1.66:1 (both taken from our new Double Play release) and at 1.77:1 (taken from the WB DVD release)."
The "Double Play" release is the new Blu-ray/DVD set.

Yeah, but we're the screenshots taken from the BD or the DVD of that Double Play release?
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post #107 of 150 Old 10-19-2012, 12:13 PM
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Hammer goes on the defensive regarding complaints about their Curse Of Frankenstein release.

http://blog.hammerfilms.com/?p=321#comments
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post #108 of 150 Old 10-19-2012, 12:36 PM
 
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They can go on the defensive all they like - it didn't have to be like this. And yes, Mr. Wuther, it is substandard with washed-out color and little detail. Other than that, I suppose it's fine. And it didn't have to be like this.
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post #109 of 150 Old 10-19-2012, 08:19 PM
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They can go on the defensive all they like - it didn't have to be like this. And yes, Mr. Wuther, it is substandard with washed-out color and little detail. Other than that, I suppose it's fine. And it didn't have to be like this.

It could look precisely as it did in 1957. Whomever is representing Hammer in their blog seems to be receiving incorrect information.

RAH
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post #110 of 150 Old 10-19-2012, 09:07 PM
 
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Well, if anyone there had a brain in their head they would talk to Mr. Harris and figure this thing out. What we don't need is a washed-out soft faded version of The Curse of Frankenstein, a gloriously garish color movie.
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post #111 of 150 Old 10-19-2012, 11:58 PM
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It could look precisely as it did in 1957. Whomever is representing Hammer in their blog seems to be receiving incorrect information.
RAH

Please elaborate.

One on hand, I can appreciate Hammer's attempts to do what they "think" is right by their catalog of films and their relative openness especially when it comes to criticism. However, it's almost like due to a combination of inexperienced people in charge of the "restorations,' the obvious technical issues with damaged or poor condition film archives and just bad luck, they are suffering a constant chain of mishaps that is quickly tarnishing expectations for current and future product..
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post #112 of 150 Old 10-20-2012, 09:31 AM
 
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Please elaborate.
One on hand, I can appreciate Hammer's attempts to do what they "think" is right by their catalog of films and their relative openness especially when it comes to criticism. However, it's almost like due to a combination of inexperienced people in charge of the "restorations,' the obvious technical issues with damaged or poor condition film archives and just bad luck, they are suffering a constant chain of mishaps that is quickly tarnishing expectations for current and future product..

There are two ways to approach a problem: Listen and learn from those who know what they are talking about and who know about elements, or be obstinate and act like you know what you're talking about when you clearly don't (rather like the Internet in certain ways). Hammer has chosen the latter when they really need to choose the former and people deserve Curse to be redone and to get the transfer that not only we deserve, but that the makers of Curse deserve.
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post #113 of 150 Old 10-20-2012, 10:29 AM
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There are two ways to approach a problem: Listen and learn from those who know what they are talking about and who know about elements, or be obstinate and act like you know what you're talking about when you clearly don't (rather like the Internet in certain ways). Hammer has chosen the latter when they really need to choose the former and people deserve Curse to be redone and to get the transfer that not only we deserve, but that the makers of Curse deserve.

I guess that would lead to what seems to be the basic question - what if the best film elements they have (for this film for example) are pretty mediocre? I think it's a safe guess that those currently fronting Hammer don't have a ton of money to spend doing a high end digital restoration and it's not like you can blame the current owners for the conditions of archived prints considering Hammer has switched owners numerous times since they went through bankruptcy in the late 70's, not to mention the studio suffered a fire during that time as well.

I'm not defending Hammer as I think they've made some avoidable mistakes on several previous Blu-ray releases. My biggest complaint is they should be offering (honest and accurate) explanations for questionable transfers *before* they street, not after when people start complaining.
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post #114 of 150 Old 10-20-2012, 12:31 PM
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The problem for Hammer is they should have tackled some lesser titles out the gate to get their feet wet. They didn't. And the results have been disastrous.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...
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post #115 of 150 Old 10-20-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partyslammer View Post

I guess that would lead to what seems to be the basic question - what if the best film elements they have (for this film for example) are pretty mediocre? I think it's a safe guess that those currently fronting Hammer don't have a ton of money to spend doing a high end digital restoration and it's not like you can blame the current owners for the conditions of archived prints considering Hammer has switched owners numerous times since they went through bankruptcy in the late 70's, not to mention the studio suffered a fire during that time as well.
I'm not defending Hammer as I think they've made some avoidable mistakes on several previous Blu-ray releases. My biggest complaint is they should be offering (honest and accurate) explanations for questionable transfers *before* they street, not after when people start complaining.

What does "high-end" digital restoration mean anyway? They spent money for a modern scan and digital color correction and cleanup. Is there something more high-end that I'm unaware of?

It's pretty obvious the problems with this BD aren't the result of funds but rather specific choices made in the mastering process. If Mr Harris says it can look exactly as it did in 1957, I believe him.
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post #116 of 150 Old 10-20-2012, 01:39 PM
 
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What does "high-end" digital restoration mean anyway? They spent money for a modern scan and digital color correction and cleanup. Is there something more high-end that I'm unaware of?
It's pretty obvious the problems with this BD aren't the result of funds but rather specific choices made in the mastering process. If Mr Harris says it can look exactly as it did in 1957, I believe him.

And you should believe him. And Hammer has stated quite blatantly they did NO color correction. They used a transfer made from a faded IP - they didn't have to, but they did. It's shoddy and silly and fans of the film (save for those who are drinking the Hammer Kool-Aid) suffer.
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post #117 of 150 Old 10-20-2012, 04:22 PM
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What does "high-end" digital restoration mean anyway? They spent money for a modern scan and digital color correction and cleanup. Is there something more high-end that I'm unaware of? (snip)

Well, I'm using the term loosely, but I would consider (well done) so-called high end restorations for Blu-ray release films such as The Wizard Of Oz, Jaws and Ben Hur. A *lot* of time and money by the respective studios were spent tracking down the best sources and meticulously going through virtually frame-by-frame to clean up or correct flaws for those films. I am a bit surprised and I do applaud the fact Hammer did a 4K scan but perhaps that cost and effort was wasted on a mediocre source print. And from their own account the didn't do any "clean-up" and apparently no color correction. This would be great if the source they used was pristine but it clearly wasn't. I really support the *attitude* behind Hammer's efforts but the results have been wildly inconsistent.
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post #118 of 150 Old 10-20-2012, 04:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partyslammer View Post

Well, I'm using the term loosely, but I would consider (well done) so-called high end restorations for Blu-ray release films such as The Wizard Of Oz, Jaws and Ben Hur. A *lot* of time and money by the respective studios were spent tracking down the best sources and meticulously going through virtually frame-by-frame to clean up or correct flaws for those films. I am a bit surprised and I do applaud the fact Hammer did a 4K scan but perhaps that cost and effort was wasted on a mediocre source print. And from their own account the didn't do any "clean-up" and apparently no color correction. This would be great if the source they used was pristine but it clearly wasn't. I really support the *attitude* behind Hammer's efforts but the results have been wildly inconsistent.

That 4K scan may be of little value. They were scanning an Interpostive made from the B & W protection masters. When you take into account MTF, you can have as much as a 40% loss in resolution or more depending on the condition of the protection masters.
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post #119 of 150 Old 10-20-2012, 06:00 PM
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The problem I believe is that the Hammer fanbase hasn't been very demanding of these releases. The BDs are largely immune to criticism because they will sell regardless of what is discussed here or elsewhere. I'm so desperate to see them all released on Blu-ray I will buy Curse no matter what the problem. The older Hammer DVDs are really showing their age by now.
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post #120 of 150 Old 10-23-2012, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Partyslammer View Post

Well, I'm using the term loosely, but I would consider (well done) so-called high end restorations for Blu-ray release films such as The Wizard Of Oz, Jaws and Ben Hur. A *lot* of time and money by the respective studios were spent tracking down the best sources and meticulously going through virtually frame-by-frame to clean up or correct flaws for those films. I am a bit surprised and I do applaud the fact Hammer did a 4K scan but perhaps that cost and effort was wasted on a mediocre source print. And from their own account the didn't do any "clean-up" and apparently no color correction. This would be great if the source they used was pristine but it clearly wasn't. I really support the *attitude* behind Hammer's efforts but the results have been wildly inconsistent.

Hand-by-hand is rare though. Plus I doubt anything Universal does counts as high-end.
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