Indiana Jones Trilogy - Page 10 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-05-2012, 03:19 AM
Senior Member
 
amoergosum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

I agree that the cover art is terrible...they did not need to have 4 shots of Indy from the different movies...just 1 iconic shot of him would have been perfect

I like this one here >>>

amoergosum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-05-2012, 07:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Cam Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Tucson, AZ & Los Angeles,CA, USA
Posts: 2,547
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked: 109
Quote:
Over sentimentalizing a technical error that was easily missed in a time before large display video taps. Although I cannot recall at the moment whether they even had video tap on Raiders, assuming they did the display was rather tiny and easy to miss such errors, least of all through a viewfinder.

Interesting point. I don't know if the Panaflex of that day (quite early models) yet had a tap; and you are right that it would have been rather crude. Another factor is that Speilberg would sometimes operate shots himself...with various degrees of success and at risk of "missing" something that an experienced operator probably would not.
Cam Man is offline  
Old 03-05-2012, 07:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Evangelo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: LI, NY
Posts: 2,012
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I might make a custom one that takes off of this poster...

Evangelo2 is online now  
Old 03-05-2012, 07:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
spectator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,036
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
As far as the official cover goes, I think the indiscriminate combination of photographs and paintings looks very cheap and tacky (and not in a material-appropriate pulpy throwback way).

I don't feel special...
spectator is offline  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:32 AM
Senior Member
 
CatBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 464
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

...

If I can distill our disagreement down to its essential points...

1) Intent vs. tolerances. You believe that unintended errors are fair game for correction. I believe films are full of unintended errors and only the ones that are outside the tolerances of the time are fixed, and they are fixed at the time. So by my definition, no films contain errors worth fixing because if they made it onto the final print, they are, by definition, within tolerances. Neither point is provable, and my position probably seems as naïve to you as yours does to me.

2) Historical value of errors. This is actually derived from the first point. I think errors have historical value because they show what the tolerances for error used to be at various points in history. If you don't think it was within tolerances, of course there's not much historical value.

3) Public right to art in the public space. I think once a piece of art enters the public space, the public has a right to see that this piece of art is preserved in the state in which they saw it (e.g. Library of Congress, etc). I'm not sure you care one way or the other about this.
CatBus is offline  
Old 03-05-2012, 10:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
KMFDMvsEnya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 1,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

If I can distill our disagreement down to its essential points...
1) Intent vs. tolerances. You believe that unintended errors are fair game for correction.

Correct, for general public exhibition and consumption. Ideally those decisions would be supervised by the pertinent filmmakers; otherwise by individuals that have the appropriate appreciation for (the) film and understand the difference between scrubbing away film grain versus say unintended errors. Such as wires which more often than not were never intended to be visible to the audience.

Quote:


I believe films are full of unintended errors and only the ones that are outside the tolerances of the time are fixed, and they are fixed at the time.

This is a mistaken assumption that all errors were noted or observed at the time of the take and could be resolved by improving the next take. Even if reshoots are permitted and a particular mistake has been discovered, it may not be practical to get a better take or it is determined that it is tolerable enough to let slide and focus resources elsewhere.

Those who actually have worked on a film project, such as myself, know that errors occur and no one notices at the time but those mistake rear their heads down the road when it may not be feasible to redo. If the error is egregious enough then yes it would be a candidate for a reshoot.

Yet if you had an elaborate set and it has already been torn down and the hypothetical shot is fairly wide you go with the take that has the best performance, hopefully without any obvious issues. Especially before the advent of powerful digital tools.

Quote:


So by my definition, no films contain errors worth fixing because if they made it onto the final print, they are, by definition, within tolerances. Neither point is provable, and my position probably seems as naïve to you as yours does to me.

That is one assumption and can be correct periodically but I disagree that it is the rule rather than the exception. Coming from experience being on actual shoots and film school.

This is a flawed premise, although it does retain a fair amount of truth to it. Again mistakes actually can be missed until the film is released or when it is too late in post-production, it happens and in order to meet deadlines the filmmakers must resign themselves to that state and hope no one notices.

Quote:


2) Historical value of errors. This is actually derived from the first point. I think errors have historical value because they show what the tolerances for error used to be at various points in history.
If you don't think it was within tolerances, of course there's not much historical value.

In respects to archival copies I fully endorse retaining the highest quality versions possible, including errors. What I disagree with is retaining certain issues for home theater consumption.

Quote:


3) Public right to art in the public space. I think once a piece of art enters the public space, the public has a right to see that this piece of art is preserved in the state in which they saw it (e.g. Library of Congress, etc). I'm not sure you care one way or the other about this.

A different animal but I agree with you partly here. As mentioned prior in this response and earlier in the thread. The highest quality archival copies should be retained for the sake of posterity, with the inclusion of various errors. I believe Library of Congress attempts to retain various versions of works that have been revised. Books that have been changed by the author for example or Star Wars where I believe they do have several versions.

I feel that for general public consumption certain issues can and should be addressed so long as they are subtle, organic, congruent, unintrusive, and complimentary to the suspension of disbelief. I do understand why some feel that corrections are inappropriate revisions. Although I believe the heighten sensitivity has more to do with the imprudent, incongruent, superfluous, inconsistent, and obnoxious changes Lucas applied to Star Wars.

I hope this provides clearer common ground.

Best Regards
KvE

PS I love those alternate cover suggestions, amoergosum and Evangelo2. Perfectly depicts the spirit of the series.
Why subtlety and simplicity escapes Lucasfilms these days is perplexing.

Politics is like a corral, no matter where you are you'll always be shovelling it.

KMFDMvsEnya is offline  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:13 AM
Senior Member
 
CatBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 464
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

Those who actually have worked on a film project, such as myself, know that errors occur and no one notices at the time but those mistake rear their heads down the road when it may not be feasible to redo. If the error is egregious enough then yes it would be a candidate for a reshoot.

I think if someone sees the error, really wishes they could fix it, but budget, time, and logistical restrictions make it infeasible so they let it pass, then they've just made the call that it's within tolerances. And if they failed to see it at all, then it's within tolerances too. It's a subjective terminology disagreement at this point is what I'm saying, your terms and mine are not in accord, and I'm not sure there's much to be done about changing that.
CatBus is offline  
Old 03-05-2012, 12:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,486
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post

As far as the official cover goes, I think the indiscriminate combination of photographs and paintings looks very cheap and tacky (and not in a material-appropriate pulpy throwback way).

What photos do ye speak of? That's all drawn poster art on the official cover.

Edit: Just double checked, yep, it's all drawn. Crystal Skull and Last Crusade are from Drew Struzan's posters, Temple of Doom is by Bruce Wolfe (got that one on my wall, it's badass) and Raiders is Richard Amsel's poster.
Geoff D is online now  
Old 03-05-2012, 12:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spectator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,036
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

What photos do ye speak of? That's all drawn poster art on the official cover.

The bottom left corner (Last Crusade?) image is either a photo or looks substantially more photo-realistic than the other images.

I don't feel special...
spectator is offline  
Old 03-05-2012, 12:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,486
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post

The bottom left corner (Last Crusade?) image is either a photo or looks substantially more photo-realistic than the other images.

Such is the power of Drew Struzan.

http://www.impawards.com/1989/indian...sade_ver1.html
Geoff D is online now  
Old 03-05-2012, 01:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spectator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,036
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

Such is the power of Drew Struzan.

http://www.impawards.com/1989/indian...sade_ver1.html

Look again. The image on the cover mock-up is the photograph on which that Struzan art is based.

I don't feel special...
spectator is offline  
Old 03-05-2012, 01:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,486
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Hmmm. It's not Struzan's art, you're right, but it still doesn't look like a photograph to me, neither does this one which I presume is the same base image of Indy: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00147AK76
Actually, that larger Last Crusade cover kinda looks like a stylised head has been 'shopped onto the real torso from the photograph.
Geoff D is online now  
Old 03-05-2012, 02:59 PM
Newbie
 
ZGibbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's Stuzan's work, it's just been touched up for the cover.
ZGibbs is offline  
Old 03-05-2012, 03:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spectator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,036
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZGibbs View Post

It's Stuzan's work, it's just been touched up for the cover.

Whatever the case, it looks incongruous with the other, more figural/representational images. It makes the cover look sloppy and thrown together, IMO.

I don't feel special...
spectator is offline  
Old 03-05-2012, 04:01 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Worlds biggest Struzan fan here, but never loved his original Raiders work.
dvdmike007 is offline  
Old 03-05-2012, 04:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,486
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Worlds biggest Struzan fan here, but never loved his original Raiders work.

The art he did for the Japanese poster was awesome.
Geoff D is online now  
Old 03-05-2012, 04:34 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

The art he did for the Japanese poster was awesome.

It was good, but the original one sheet was iconic
dvdmike007 is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 10:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr.G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,565
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Liked: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

It was good, but the original one sheet was iconic

Classic. Richard Amsel. Bought a used folded poster a few months after the movie came out through a Canadian seller. In the 80's you bought posters from seller ads in publications, magazines, etc.


All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Movies

Mr.G is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 02:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
KBMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Mr.G,
your pic is not showing up.....

Terrence
"Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?...."No, have you?" -ALIENS

KBMAN is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 04:09 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

Classic. Richard Amsel. Bought a used folded poster a few months after the movie came out through a Canadian seller. In the 80's you bought posters from seller ads in publications, magazines, etc.


This one?

dvdmike007 is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 06:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
IanD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Just as we have the Hippocratic oath popularised as "first do no harm", I think we need an equivalent one for film "first ensure the original is preserved".
IanD is offline  
Old 03-11-2012, 07:32 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,513
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 451
To me, that is the classic Raiders art and what I remember growing up around.^^^

DavidHir is online now  
Old 03-11-2012, 07:33 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

To me, that is the classic Raiders art and what I remember growing up around.^^^

One of the very best one sheets ever produced
dvdmike007 is offline  
Old 03-12-2012, 07:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nick_danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidhir View Post

to me, that is the classic raiders art and what i remember growing up around.^^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

one of the very best one sheets ever produced

+1
nick_danger is offline  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:23 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Mark Booth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Beautiful California
Posts: 1,503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 25
That one-sheet has been hanging on display in our home theater room since 1989! It still looks great! And I agree it's one of the best one-sheets of all time!

Mark
Mark Booth is offline  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:49 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Struzan got way better with raiders the more he tried, I am not a fan of the wind swept first version.
I own all the book collections of his work and a couple of original one sheets, but his later Raiders and the other movies became and embodied Jones as a series.
dvdmike007 is offline  
Old 03-18-2012, 01:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Waboman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Terraforming Planet Wabo
Posts: 7,237
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Liked: 767
Blu-ray trailer.



__________________________________________

When life gives you limes, make margaritas
Waboman is online now  
Old 03-18-2012, 08:39 PM
CIH USER
 
Franin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 17,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Blu-ray trailer.


Good stuff looking forward to it.

_________________________

Frank
Franin is offline  
Old 03-18-2012, 09:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
inspector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Menifee, CA , USA
Posts: 961
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I could care less what's on the front, I only see the spine when it's in my collection. Now LDs had some beautiful covers and those you could frame and hang. I have 2 framed, both autographed. Ann Robinson "War of the Worlds" and Paul Manti "Robinson Crusoe on Mars."

Never seen a BD cover hung on a wall...who'd want to?

...finally retired and spending time in my HT!!!

My equipment consists of: Epson 9500 UB Projector(Avical ISFd); 110" JKP Affinity Screen; Panny BD30 Player, Tosh HDA1 Player; Definitive Speakers (Center, Towers, Rear); Onkyo 608 A/V Receiver; Nevo Q50 Remote; TWC DVR-HD Cable Box; 5 Bello chairs.
inspector is online now  
Old 03-19-2012, 09:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Shaded Dogfood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Terminus and the Lake of Light
Posts: 4,855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Are we arguing that the poster in post #290 is the original one-sheet?

The original (cropped) is the one in post #271.

CW Hinkle
Shaded Dogfood is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off