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Old 04-08-2012, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

With three of the TT BRs, I got a refrigerator magnet that is a little bigger than a business card but has the cover art on it from the BR. The ones that came with the magnet were: The Egyptian, Picnic, and Bell, Book and Candle. The ones with no magnets are: Pal Joey and Swamp Water. I am wondering what the story is with the magnets, whether one is in the box or not. Or is it accidental that accompanies the TT BRs.

Mysterious Island had one, too.

Bite the Bullet did not.

-Bill
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Pal Joey and Fright Night had magnets.

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Old 04-08-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Hi_Def_Boss View Post

With an avalanche of content both old and new, short memory spans, a little bit of bitterness over the hd format war, along with overwhelming access to torrented/pirated material, I find it refreshing that there is still a collector's market at all. TT seems to be filling this niche nicely--

Agreed - kind of.

I'm grateful for companies like Criterion that put a ton of effort into their stuff (including, very often, a lot of extras) to release stuff that that we wouldn't normally get. They provide quality and features at a higher, but worthy price.

Whether TT becomes a similar quality source worthy of their price remains to be seen. Simply requiring a higher price by hawking their product with Home Shopping Network limits on quantity does not do that.

Releasing titles in an unrestricted way that fills a demand from those looking for the product at their price point is what makes me grateful.

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I'm just saddened that a high profile picture like as good as it gets is now considered a "niche" title.

It seems like the "new and now" has taken the place of "classic". As a society, we seem to only acknowledge things in 15 minute blocks of fame.

It's very sad to realize how many young people in the future will fail to appreciate some of the greatest music and films ever made, just because they're "old".
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Mysterious Island had one, too.

Bite the Bullet did not.

-Bill

I guess that I will have to call up SAE on Monday and see what the story is. Just imagine these magnets becoming collector's items.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

I guess that I will have to call up SAE on Monday and see what the story is. Just imagine these magnets becoming collector's items.

Insist on a certificate of authenticity. They look easy to counterfeit. I blame Twilight Time's business plan.

But seriously folks. Reading the interviews makes me more interested in some of the titles which were low priority for me. I'll probably get them. When will I have another chance?

These guys are obviously in it for the love of movies and music. That people give them grief for their efforts: no good deed goes unpunished.

-Bill
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

These guys are obviously in it for the love of movies and music. That people give them grief for their efforts: no good deed goes unpunished.

-Bill

No, they're in it to make money. They may like, or even love, the movies they sell, but the limit quantity aspect says they are more insterested in creating demand for what they have on hand, not in putting out hard to find titles that might not ordinarilly be released.

They're media brokers who take whatever transfer they're sold and pump out a set number of copies. It's little different from the likes of Good Times, except TT avoids using televsion tape masters for their transfers in an effort to put out a (in most cases) decent product.

But, that only says that the studio is providing them with a proper transfer in most cases. What would they do if sold the latest Universal Dracula transfer so many have complained about? Sell it with a 3K quantity limit and a $29.99 price tag or tell Universal it's not good enough? It's assumed Demitrious was released using the best source available, but what if there's a better source and the only transfer made available is sub-par?

Good Time released a dreadful version of "The Gate" years ago. The question is, would TT accept that transfer or hold out for the better one that eventually was released?

That will be the true test of their love of movies.

But, having said that, I'll welcome these guys at their price point well before I'd support the likes of Koch at any price. I'll never forgive those guys for Gulliver's Travels.
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

No, they're in it to make money.

Oh my god, what are they, Capitalists?

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They may like, or even love, the movies they sell, but the limit quantity aspect says they are more insterested in creating demand for what they have on hand, not in putting out hard to find titles that might not ordinarilly be released.

In the case of Fright Night, Twilight Time was contractually limited to a run of only 3,000 copies. When those sold out, don't you think they wanted to press more, so that they could make more money? Their contract with Sony prohibited that.

As far as I'm aware, Fright Night is the only title that Twilight Time has sold out of.

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Old 04-08-2012, 01:29 PM
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As Good As it Gets will sell out too.

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Old 04-08-2012, 01:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Oh my god, what are they, Capitalists?



In the case of Fright Night, Twilight Time was contractually limited to a run of only 3,000 copies. When those sold out, don't you think they wanted to press more, so that they could make more money? Their contract with Sony prohibited that.

As far as I'm aware, Fright Night is the only title that Twilight Time has sold out of.

Correct - one title. And it, from the time of pre-release orders, took over eight weeks.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

As Good As it Gets will sell out too.

That's a given. I wonder what the actual demand is: 10K, 20K units? 50K? 100K? 3K sounds like a ridiculously limited run for this title.
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

No, they're in it to make money. They may like, or even love, the movies they sell, but the limit quantity aspect says they are more insterested in creating demand for what they have on hand, not in putting out hard to find titles that might not ordinarilly be released.

They're media brokers who take whatever transfer they're sold and pump out a set number of copies. It's little different from the likes of Good Times, except TT avoids using televsion tape masters for their transfers in an effort to put out a (in most cases) decent product.

But, that only says that the studio is providing them with a proper transfer in most cases. What would they do if sold the latest Universal Dracula transfer so many have complained about? Sell it with a 3K quantity limit and a $29.99 price tag or tell Universal it's not good enough? It's assumed Demitrious was released using the best source available, but what if there's a better source and the only transfer made available is sub-par?

Good Time released a dreadful version of "The Gate" years ago. The question is, would TT accept that transfer or hold out for the better one that eventually was released?

That will be the true test of their love of movies.

But, having said that, I'll welcome these guys at their price point well before I'd support the likes of Koch at any price. I'll never forgive those guys for Gulliver's Travels.


From all indications Demetrius was the first title TT released that wasn't up to snuf. I won't purchase the disc because of all the negative publicity. In any case Demetruis was a test cast and that they (TT) will be more selective in what they release. The first review of the new Desiree is more promising!
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hi_Def_Boss View Post

That's a given. I wonder what the actual demand is: 10K, 20K units? 50K? 100K? 3K sounds like a ridiculously limited run for this title.

You "think" that - the reality may be completely other. We'll all have to wait and see, but I don't think it's going to sell out immediately. And history would prove you wrong on your "actual demand" figures. There have been many releases of like titles from the catalog that haven't done anywhere near the figures you mention - starting with the lowest. The posters on this board are, I'm sure, all well meaning and very nice folks, but you are not smarter than Sony, who knows what they've sold of what - they're doing what they think is best.
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:54 PM
 
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Sony announced losses of $2.3 billion in their tv division alone. They are expecting at least 11 straight years of losses. I wonder how much intelligence it required to pull that off.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Whether TT becomes a similar quality source worthy of their price remains to be seen. Simply requiring a higher price by hawking their product with Home Shopping Network limits on quantity does not do that.

Agreed... and if Twilight Time grows as a company and expands their model over time, then I could look back at these times as forgivable growing pains for a new company.

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It seems like the "new and now" has taken the place of "classic". As a society, we seem to only acknowledge things in 15 minute blocks of fame.

It's very sad to realize how many young people in the future will fail to appreciate some of the greatest music and films ever made, just because they're "old".

With you 100% here. I don't automatically like old movies because they are old... but there is a chunk of the current population that refuses to accept quality existed before they were born.

Good film is good film, no matter when it was produced. Some of the crap that churns out of hollywood these days really saddens me when compared to some very under-appreciated classics.

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I guess that I will have to call up SAE on Monday and see what the story is. Just imagine these magnets becoming collector's items.

Too late. Some of the magnets have gone for $15 on eBay! Seriously... People were selling magnets not too long ago when Fright Night came out and some people didn't get magnets.

That fun poked... to be honest, I wish Twilight Time would do more of that kind of unique thing and make sure every order came with a limited collectible like that. It would go a long way to me towards building value into their limited runs.

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In the case of Fright Night, Twilight Time was contractually limited to a run of only 3,000 copies. When those sold out, don't you think they wanted to press more, so that they could make more money? Their contract with Sony prohibited that.

You do know that saying "Sony prohibited that" is completely misleading. Read the interviews with the Twilight guys... they are the ones (for various reasons, some of which I even agree with) who decided on the 3000 copy limit.

Twilight Time approached Sony, in this case, and only asked to make 3000 copies. Twilight Time could have contracted with Sony to make more in that original contract. It isn't like Sony said yes only to 3000 copies. Twilight Time only asked for 3000 copies. That's why the contract is locked... because that's the limit Twilight Time wanted... not a limit Sony mandated.

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From all indications Demetrius was the first title TT released that wasn't up to snuf. I won't purchase the disc because of all the negative publicity. In any case Demetruis was a test cast and that they (TT) will be more selective in what they release. The first review of the new Desiree is more promising!

That's my impression as well. I've seen glowing reviews of many of the other Twilight Time releases. I can't recall reading a bad review of the transfer except for Demetrius. That's why it was kind of surprising to see people jump to defend Twilight Time for putting out a poor release.

Twilight Time is setting themselves up as a place for "people who love movies"... so one expects them to be choosy about the transfers they pick up.

As an alternative, Twilight Time could offer refunds to people who are unhappy with the quality of the transfer and in the future be more choosy OR they could put out advance review copies before people are locked into pre-orders for a product sight-unseen.

This could be a blip on the radar OR could be a sign of things to come. When building a reputation, Twilight Time should want people to think "quality" rather than "I'll wait and see"...

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Sony announced losses of $2.3 billion in their tv division alone. They are expecting at least 11 straight years of losses. I wonder how much intelligence it required to pull that off.

Shhhhh... even implying that a multibillion dollar company sometimes makes mistakes flies in the face of those who think we mere consumers have no right to question companies' decisions!

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Old 04-08-2012, 11:16 PM
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Too late. Some of the magnets have gone for $15 on eBay! Seriously... People were selling magnets not too long ago when Fright Night came out and some people didn't get magnets.

That fun poked... to be honest, I wish Twilight Time would do more of that kind of unique thing and make sure every order came with a limited collectible like that. It would go a long way to me towards building value into their limited runs.

I can just see it now, for sale TT's________(fill in the BR film), but it won't come with the extremely limited edition magnet.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:11 AM
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In the end, it falls on the studio to figure out how to make it at a cost that lets them sell it at a price most of the potential audience for the product will pay.

$30-$35 ain't it.

This reminds me of my father's old chestnut about the Great Depression era guy selling apples on the street corner for $10,000 each. When asked why he was charging so much when everybody else sold theirs for so little his response was, "I only have to sell one and I'm done!"

The market decides what a product is worth. A niche market will always pay more. A Ferrari will never be as cheap as a Camry. But neither should a Camry be produced in artificially short supply so they can charge more. No one has been able to convince me that any of Sony's or Fox's titles are worth more just because they can only sell so few of them.

Criterion has long been accepted as a vendor that deserves its premium based on what is delivered in return. With TT doing very little (if any) of the heavy lifting to produce a quality high-definition experience I don't see the need for any of the studios to introduce another reason to charge more than the going rate.

Others may feel differently, and they are welcome to vote to keep the inflated price high with their purchases. I am not calling for a boycott or a cessation of niche marketing. Just don't expect everyone to cow-tow and shell out if the movies they want aren't priced similarly to other titles on the market.

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Old 04-09-2012, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Hi_Def_Boss View Post

That's a given. I wonder what the actual demand is: 10K, 20K units? 50K? 100K? 3K sounds like a ridiculously limited run for this title.

I think you vastly overestimate the pent-up demand for a mostly-forgotten drama film from 15 years ago.

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Old 04-09-2012, 10:20 AM
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I would pay 49.99 for quality releases of niche titles easily, just to have the opportunity to get some true classics and gems on blu-ray that will never never see the light of day due to demand. Laser disc comparisons are valid...I will gladly save up my money for quality limited releases than shell out the petty cash for the mundane crapola that saturates the Tuesday releases weekly.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:34 AM
 
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This reminds me of my father's old chestnut about the Great Depression era guy selling apples on the street corner for $10,000 each. When asked why he was charging so much when everybody else sold theirs for so little his response was, "I only have to sell one and I'm done!"

The market decides what a product is worth. A niche market will always pay more. A Ferrari will never be as cheap as a Camry. But neither should a Camry be produced in artificially short supply so they can charge more. No one has been able to convince me that any of Sony's or Fox's titles are worth more just because they can only sell so few of them.

Criterion has long been accepted as a vendor that deserves its premium based on what is delivered in return. With TT doing very little (if any) of the heavy lifting to produce a quality high-definition experience I don't see the need for any of the studios to introduce another reason to charge more than the going rate.

Others may feel differently, and they are welcome to vote to keep the inflated price high with their purchases. I am not calling for a boycott or a cessation of niche marketing. Just don't expect everyone to cow-tow and shell out if the movies they want aren't priced similarly to other titles on the market.

Ah, but you see no one is expecting anyone to do anything. All anyone has really been saying to these endless complaints is buy it or don't. Post about it once. Everyone gets what is being said from all parties. It would really be nice if this thread could go back to being positive and about the releases, otherwise it's just endless regurgitation of the same old same old.
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:36 PM
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I have no problem with $30 for a movie I want. The only problem I have with TT is that they have yet to release or schedule anything I would consider paying that price for.

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Old 04-09-2012, 01:46 PM
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Shhhhh... even implying that a multibillion dollar company sometimes makes mistakes flies in the face of those who think we mere consumers have no right to question companies' decisions!

But of course, your solution is for them to spend more money throwing product at retail that isn't going to sell. The fact they continue to operate at a loss for years on end goes directly to what we're saying -- not to mention how much money they've thrown into Blu-Ray that hasn't reaped benefits yet...at least not enough to off-set their losses. At some point you have to acknowledge the marketplace -- the home video business, especially at retail and particularly when it comes to catalog titles, is dying. There's no debate about that.

I agree with Haineshisway that this thread ought to go back to a discussion of TT's releases -- good bad or indifferent, that's really what the thread ought to be about by now. The bickering from the same group of posters over WHY they are releasing these titles has gone on in an endless loop. Whether those posters who dislike/disagree with the process have understood the rationale, or simply chose not to acknowledge it, it's all there -- in interviews conducted online, other posts, other threads. The how and the why has been spelled out time and time again. It is not a constructive debate at this point.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:23 PM
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But of course, your solution is for them to spend more money throwing product at retail that isn't going to sell.

No... clearly you don't read my posts.

I also said that if retail is too expensive (given some of the numbers presented in this thread by someone who actually backed up his thoughts with some facts)... then Sony and FOX can sell direct to the customer at their already existing Web sites.

The only additional money they would have to spend are the paltry replication costs. Every other expense from their perspective is already spent (the transfer itself) or minor deltas (they already manage and run a Web site and customer fulfillment system).

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The fact they continue to operate at a loss for years on end goes directly to what we're saying -- not to mention how much money they've thrown into Blu-Ray that hasn't reaped benefits yet...

So... by your logic then, Sony and other big studios should stop supporting Blu-ray entirely... I mean, they aren't a profitable company right now and have lost a lot of money on Blu-ray... so they should let smaller companies make $1000+ Blu-ray players instead of making the <$100 ones they now make.

Right?

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at least not enough to off-set their losses. At some point you have to acknowledge the marketplace -- the home video business, especially at retail and particularly when it comes to catalog titles, is dying. There's no debate about that.

Sure there is. We are in a sagging economy right now. EVERYTHING appears to be dying. The housing market, for example, is down... but I don't see anyone concluding that the housing market is done forever, that people no longer want to live in homes again... No, most recognize it is a part of the current state of the economy.

When the economy comes back, and people have more disposable income... that's when we will find out what things are still popular and what things have gone out of style.

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I agree with Haineshisway that this thread ought to go back to a discussion of TT's releases -- good bad or indifferent, that's really what the thread ought to be about by now.

To be fair... the poster who started the thread is fine with all topics being discussed, so I don't know who any of us are to question what the thread "should be about" when the thread starter is ok with the current thread.

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The bickering from the same group of posters over WHY they are releasing these titles has gone on in an endless loop. Whether those posters who dislike/disagree with the process have understood the rationale, or simply chose not to acknowledge it, it's all there -- in interviews conducted online, other posts, other threads. The how and the why has been spelled out time and time again. It is not a constructive debate at this point.

It's not a constructive debate because some post opinion masquerading as fact without support for those "Facts." At least one poster specifically said he would not post facts to support his claims. That makes no sense at all.

Again, the most recent round of debate started when someone dared question the quality of the recent release of Demetrius, and some of us were told essentially to "like it or lump it" as if it wasn't even right to complain about a poor transfer from Twilight Time.

And that kicked off another round of why their model is poor, because when they stumble and release a poor transfer it is going to hurt their business model much more than it would a company with a bigger goal.

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Old 04-09-2012, 03:51 PM
 
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No... clearly you don't read my posts.

I also said that if retail is too expensive (given some of the numbers presented in this thread by someone who actually backed up his thoughts with some facts)... then Sony and FOX can sell direct to the customer at their already existing Web sites.

The only additional money they would have to spend are the paltry replication costs. Every other expense from their perspective is already spent (the transfer itself) or minor deltas (they already manage and run a Web site and customer fulfillment system).



So... by your logic then, Sony and other big studios should stop supporting Blu-ray entirely... I mean, they aren't a profitable company right now and have lost a lot of money on Blu-ray... so they should let smaller companies make $1000+ Blu-ray players instead of making the <$100 ones they now make.

Right?



Sure there is. We are in a sagging economy right now. EVERYTHING appears to be dying. The housing market, for example, is down... but I don't see anyone concluding that the housing market is done forever, that people no longer want to live in homes again... No, most recognize it is a part of the current state of the economy.

When the economy comes back, and people have more disposable income... that's when we will find out what things are still popular and what things have gone out of style.



To be fair... the poster who started the thread is fine with all topics being discussed, so I don't know who any of us are to question what the thread "should be about" when the thread starter is ok with the current thread.



It's not a constructive debate because some post opinion masquerading as fact without support for those "Facts." At least one poster specifically said he would not post facts to support his claims. That makes no sense at all.

Again, the most recent round of debate started when someone dared question the quality of the recent release of Demetrius, and some of us were told essentially to "like it or lump it" as if it wasn't even right to complain about a poor transfer from Twilight Time.

And that kicked off another round of why their model is poor, because when they stumble and release a poor transfer it is going to hurt their business model much more than it would a company with a bigger goal.

Since you are referring to me, the information you're asking me to post is privileged, i.e. if I posted it here, no one would ever trust me with information again. And since neither your pushing me to do so or this board or this thread is worth that you can go on ignoring ALL the information that's been posted here. It's pretty clear that some people get it, and some don't want to get it. Those who know what the market is like at this point in time know exactly which posts to ignore. The point which you are still ignoring is that whether the original poster is okay with this or not, there is no more to say on this subject. It's the same five posts over and over again and frankly it's a complete bore. Every possible piece of the puzzle is in this thread - the fact that some folks can't let it go and just keep posting the same thing over and over again - well, that's the issue.

And you know that. As do others. So, the question would be, why do you all keep on doing it? To what purpose? Because when you continue to beat a dead horse long after the horse has gone to its maker, then one begins to question the motivations for the continual beating of a horse that is no more.

As to Demetrius, it is hardly the unmitigated be all and end all of bad transfers. It is not a great transfer. It is serviceable and MUCH better than the DVD. You want a BAD transfer (words do have meanings, and bad is a word with a meaning) try Who's Minding the Store from Olive - same situation - they must release what they are given by the studio. In the case of Who's Minding the Store, it is a travesty - an ancient transfer with completely brown, awful color, soft verging on out of focus for the entirety of its running time - should they have released it? I don't have the answer to that question, other than to say I put the disc on my trade pile instantly. Demetrius is nowhere near that kind of awfulness. While the color isn't perfect, it's very much at least in the ballpark. And it's a hundred times sharper than Who's Minding the Store. Again, Twilight Time is not going to do a transfer like that again, specifically because even though many of the people who bought it are truly happy to have it and find it meets their needs, the ten-percent or less that post on these boards make it really unappetizing to ever go down that road again. Unfortunately, as I've said before, that will mean some films simply will not be released, even though the transfer may likely please eighty-percent of the buyers.

I, for one, cannot wait to get my mitts on The Big Heat. And since I know what's coming down the road, I'm salivating for titles that I must be patient for.
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:02 PM
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Spoke with SAE today, the magnets are limited and unpredictable if it will come with a TT BR. It is dependent upon the cover art and someone's judgement whether or not to run off 1000 magnets. SAE in future posts on their website may indicate when a magnet will accompany a TT BR and probably limit their distribution to the first 1000 buyers.
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:51 PM
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Spoke with SAE today, the magnets are limited and unpredictable if it will come with a TT BR. It is dependent upon the cover art and someone's judgement whether or not to run off 1000 magnets. SAE in future posts on their website may indicate when a magnet will accompany a TT BR and probably limit their distribution to the first 1000 buyers.

That's a shame. I think it would help if they included such a unique item with every copy. I mean, if they are only making 3000 copies of a title anyway, why not make 3000 magnets and then everyone who orders a Blu-ray from them gets a corresponding magnet.

At least as far as I can think of, Twilight Time is the only place you can get such a magnet... I'm not aware of any other studios giving magnets away... so it could kind of be their "thing" that sets them apart from other limited releases.

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Old 04-09-2012, 09:49 PM
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That's a shame. I think it would help if they included such a unique item with every copy. I mean, if they are only making 3000 copies of a title anyway, why not make 3000 magnets and then everyone who orders a Blu-ray from them gets a corresponding magnet.

At least as far as I can think of, Twilight Time is the only place you can get such a magnet... I'm not aware of any other studios giving magnets away... so it could kind of be their "thing" that sets them apart from other limited releases.

Twilight Time is actually not involved with the magnets at all. SAE, the website they sell through, has done that in the past for CD releases, and decided to do the same for some of TT's Blu-ray releases. SAE chooses which titles get magnets, SAE decides how many to manufacture, and SAE decides the "algorithm" so to speak for deciding which orders get them.

TT mentioned on their Facebook that, due to customer comments, they've requested that SAE either include them in all orders, or stop the practice altogether. I've no idea how SAE has responded to this, or if any changes are planned.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:00 PM
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Looks like they will be more rare than the actual TT BRs. Anyway, they look neat on the refrigerator door.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:47 PM
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Twilight Time is actually not involved with the magnets at all. SAE, the website they sell through, has done that in the past for CD releases, and decided to do the same for some of TT's Blu-ray releases. SAE chooses which titles get magnets, SAE decides how many to manufacture, and SAE decides the "algorithm" so to speak for deciding which orders get them.

TT mentioned on their Facebook that, due to customer comments, they've requested that SAE either include them in all orders, or stop the practice altogether. I've no idea how SAE has responded to this, or if any changes are planned.

Interesting... I did not know it was SAE doing it and not Twilight Time. That does raise an interesting question though... Does SAE actually have the rights to manufacture and distribute these magnets?

I'm not looking to start another argument... it's a real question. I had thought Twilight Time licensed to make the magnets as well... but if it is an SAE thing, then are they licensed to make them or is it something the studios could complain about?

Meanwhile... knowing that, it is good that Twilight Time has asked SAE to change the practice. It will be interesting to see what happens going forward. I know on some other forums some people were mad that they didn't get magnets while others did. There was about as much stir about trying to find the magnets as some of the titles for a week or so there.

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Old 04-09-2012, 11:14 PM
 
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I'm salivating for The Big Heat. As to magnets, who gives a flying Wallenda?
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:41 PM
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I'm salivating for The Big Heat. As to magnets, who gives a flying Wallenda?

Yeah, but if it comes with one you aren't going to toss it into the trash, are you? Notification for The Big Heat BR should come up on SAE's website this Friday around 4pm e.s.t. or so I was told. You better drink a lot of water because a month is a long time to be salivating. I just hope it looks as good as TT's Swamp Water BR.
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