Brainstorm (1983) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 106 Old 07-04-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

This is of course the same rationale that all black bar haters use to demand that scope movies should be cropped to fill their screens.
The "Original Aspect Ratio" of Brainstorm is a 1.66:1 image pillarboxed in the center of a wider scope image. That is how it should be presented, regardless of what shape your TV is. If you want to alter that, then you should also crop all movies to fill your TV screen

Who is asking for anything to be altered? I'm glad Brainstorm is presented the way it is. Whatever you're reading into it, it's wrong.
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How was it cheating to do specifically what was instructed in the poll, which was to get people actually affected by the issue to vote? You're still bitter that you couldn't convince (or "recruit") anyone to vote for your side, because once people looked at the issue logically and dispassionately, they realized that I was right and you were just being petty. Pure sour grapes.

No, it was cheating. Skewing the demographic for your own ends. The poll was for actual BD.com members. You just can't stand the fact that as a population of the community you're in a tiny niche of a niche. Until you brought in everyone you knew on your side, you were losing. You'd lose today if it was held again.
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I'm well aware of the Penton-Man scandal. Frankly, I think it was obvious all along that he didn't work for Sony, and that his being "outed" was inevitable. However, whatever his real identity or agenda, he did have connections to executives in the company, and the survey did work (albeit slowly).
If you really think that he survey didn't convince anyone of anything, why do you continue to whine about it on other forums, three years later?

YOU brought up the bogus poll.

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post #92 of 106 Old 07-04-2012, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

This is clearly not something you've actually looked into. In North America, only OPPO Blu-ray players have the subtitle shift function. The BDP-83 is currently out of production, so that leaves only the BDP-93 and BDP-95. In other parts of the world, a handful of Philips Blu-ray players can also do this, but not the Blu-ray players sold under the Philips brand in North America (which are really rebadged Funai machines).
That's it, the sum total of all Blu-ray players, high-end or otherwise, that can alter subtitle position.

That's funny, 'cause I've got a Panasonic DMPBBT01 that can shift the subs. Edit: I no longer have my 21:9 TV so the feature isn't as useful as it once was (boy, Brainstorm would've looked sweet on that!) but it still comes in very handy for moving forced subtitles off the screen on foreign titles.
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post #93 of 106 Old 07-04-2012, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

Who is asking for anything to be altered? I'm glad Brainstorm is presented the way it is. Whatever you're reading into it, it's wrong.

Not sure why we're arguing, then.
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No, it was cheating. Skewing the demographic for your own ends. The poll was for actual BD.com members. You just can't stand the fact that as a population of the community you're in a tiny niche of a niche. Until you brought in everyone you knew on your side, you were losing. You'd lose today if it was held again.

The poll was not just for bd.com members. What use would the poll have been if it were limited to just that audience? Before I joined that thread, the person who held the poll encouraged everyone to "get out the vote." So I did. I educated people on the issue, I made my case, people saw that I was right, and they voted to support my position. That's not "cheating." That's how a democratic voting system works.

If no one on your side of the debate could be bothered to make that same effort, all that goes to show is that the placement of subtitles in the movie image really didn't affect them negatively enough that they needed to put up a fight against it. Which is what I said all along.

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post #94 of 106 Old 07-04-2012, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

That's funny, 'cause I've got a Panasonic DMPBBT01 that can shift the subs. Edit: I no longer have my 21:9 TV so the feature isn't as useful as it once was (boy, Brainstorm would've looked sweet on that!) but it still comes in very handy for moving forced subtitles off the screen on foreign titles.

I stand corrected then. I was not aware that Panasonic had added the feature. Good to know, thanks.

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post #95 of 106 Old 07-04-2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Not sure why we're arguing, then.

The only disappointment I have is that the source was 35MM and not the 65MM original.
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The poll was not just for bd.com members. What use would the poll have been if it were limited to just that audience? Before I joined that thread, the person who held the poll encouraged everyone to "get out the vote." So I did. I educated people on the issue, I made my case, people saw that I was right, and they voted to support my position. That's not "cheating." That's how a democratic voting system works.

Democratic...what happened was like living in a quiet Marin County CA town. Someone holds a special election to drill for oil. What you did was bring in a bunch of Texans to register to vote with a temporary address. Legal? Yes. Unethical? You bet.
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If no one on your side of the debate could be bothered to make that same effort, all that goes to show is that the placement of subtitles in the movie image really didn't affect them negatively enough that they needed to put up a fight against it. Which is what I said all along.

The Oppo units (which I have) have subtitle shift.

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post #96 of 106 Old 07-05-2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

Democratic...what happened was like living in a quiet Marin County CA town. Someone holds a special election to drill for oil. What you did was bring in a bunch of Texans to register to vote with a temporary address. Legal? Yes. Unethical? You bet.

The poll was regarding a corporate policy change at the studio that would affect all Blu-ray viewers, not just bd.com members. A more accurate analogy would be that you wanted the residents of Marin County to be the only American citizens allowed to vote in the national Presidential election, and everyone else who might be affected by that should just stuff off.
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The Oppo units (which I have) have subtitle shift.

That feature wasn't added until January of 2010, six months after the poll.

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post #97 of 106 Old 07-05-2012, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

and everyone else who might be affected by that should just stuff off.

You would need to assume that the particular poll in question was the end-all be-all for that issue. Corporate policy does not hinge on a third party website's poll, especially since it wasn't a poll started by Sony.

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post #98 of 106 Old 07-05-2012, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

You would need to assume that the particular poll in question was the end-all be-all for that issue. Corporate policy does not hinge on a third party website's poll, especially since it wasn't a poll started by Sony.

And yet the policy did change.

Regardless of who or what Penton-Man really was, he presented himself as an employee (or consultant) for Sony Pictures and stated that the poll was started on behalf of the company, and that the company would use the outcome of the poll to decide on its policy. He may not have really worked there, but he clearly had contacts in the company that regularly fed him insider information.

If you want to chalk the whole thing up to being fraud (and I don't blame you, given his eventual outing), you can take that up with Penton. Given the context of the information available at the time of the poll, nothing I did could in any way be considered "cheating" or "unethical." As I said, sour grapes.

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post #99 of 106 Old 07-05-2012, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Given the context of the information available at the time of the poll, nothing I did could in any way be considered "cheating" or "unethical." As I said, sour grapes.

My contacts in law enforcement say the perps & parolees always swear they didn't do anything wrong either. cool.gif

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post #100 of 106 Old 07-06-2012, 07:06 AM
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Give it a rest, Peter. You lost an argument three years ago. Boo hoo. Move on with your life.

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post #101 of 106 Old 07-06-2012, 08:09 AM
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Ummm............BRAINSTORM anyone? lol
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post #102 of 106 Old 07-06-2012, 11:33 AM
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Received notification that my screener copy shipped today. I look forward to watching it on my scope screen.

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post #103 of 106 Old 07-07-2012, 09:07 AM
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Apparently the disc shipped prior to my receiving notification, because I received and watched it last night.

Unfortunately, this is not a particularly good-looking image. It's obviously transferred from a 35mm source. In effect, the 65mm scenes look like 35mm, and the 35mm scenes look like 16mm. Neither is a particularly good example of those formats. Even the "brainstorm" scenes are flat and lacking in detail. The "real world" scenes (which comprise the majority of the movie) look washed out and hazy.

The aspect ratio gimmick is neat to watch on a scope screen, but I'd forgotten how corny and dull the movie is.

I'd advise a rental on this, not a purchase. It's a disappointment.

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post #104 of 106 Old 07-07-2012, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Apparently the disc shipped prior to my receiving notification, because I received and watched it last night.
Unfortunately, this is not a particularly good-looking image. It's obviously transferred from a 35mm source. In effect, the 65mm scenes look like 35mm, and the 35mm scenes look like 16mm. Neither is a particularly good example of those formats. Even the "brainstorm" scenes are flat and lacking in detail. The "real world" scenes (which comprise the majority of the movie) look washed out and hazy.
The aspect ratio gimmick is neat to watch on a scope screen, but I'd forgotten how corny and dull the movie is.
I'd advise a rental on this, not a purchase. It's a disappointment.

Which was my concern with the disc, sourced from 35MM instead of the 65MM originals. But since this movie wasn't a moneymaker (and pretty much only noted for being Natalie Wood's final performance) I don't expect them to pony up the cash for a definitive edition anytime soon, if ever. If CBS can't be bothered to re-transfer My Fair Lady from 65MM... frown.gif

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post #105 of 106 Old 07-14-2012, 01:42 AM
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Blu-ray.com review is up >>>
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Fear not, purists: Trumbull's shifting aspect ratios are intact and rightfully presented via a non-shifting 2.40:1 1080p/AVC-encoded video transfer. However, the aggressively letterboxed results are more distracting than they are evocative, with the mind-interface sequences presented in 2.40:1 widescreen (1911 x 796 pixels) and the real world scenes presented in 1.67:1 with black bars on all sides (1330 x 796 pixels). The leaps between the two are startling, just as Trumbull intended, and do make the fish-eyed interface shots a bit more visceral. But the vast majority of the film is letterboxed top and bottom, left and right, leaving the viewer watching something that resembles a non-anamorphic widescreen presentation. Worse, the interface sequences are soft and hazy, the real world scenes are flat and listless, and colors and skintones are bland and lifeless in both. Black levels are often muted as well, and contrast is inconsistent. Every now and then a primary pops or a shot erupts with color, but that's the exception. Then there's the encode itself, the integrity of which is undermined by occasional artifacting, banding, unwieldy noise and other anomalies. Brainstorm's presentation is reasonably faithful, particularly when it comes to its handling of Trumbull's shifting aspect ratios, but source and encoding issues cut it down to size.
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Warner's DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 surround track is serviceable, effective even, but it's a bit too hit or miss to make much of an impact. The interface sequences are loud and jarring, and like the accompanying visuals, more unsettling. LFE and rear speaker output increase dramatically and the entire soundfield bristles with activity. The real world scenes, though, may as well be presented via a single channel lossy track. Dialogue is intelligible but ranges from clear to dampened to a bit muffled, dynamics are dull and diluted, and very little draws the listener in. And while much of that can be attributed to intention, it doesn't make for an immersive experience. Yes, Trumbull went out of his way to make the interface sequences larger than life. But to do so, he also deadened the real world scenes. Perhaps that bit of criticism belongs in the movie portion of my review, but it struck me as being more appropriate here.

Source:
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Brainstorm-Blu-ray/31659/#Review
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post #106 of 106 Old 07-14-2012, 04:11 AM
 
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Fear not, purists: Trumbull's shifting aspect ratios are intact and rightfully presented via a non-shifting 2.40:1 1080p/AVC-encoded video transfer.



Nope
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