Brainstorm (1983) - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 106 Old 03-23-2012, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,375
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 28



Really like this film. Remember it from my Childhood and how cool and scary it was

Up for preorder on Amazon.com coming July 10th-

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007NR9WBG/
Spizz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 106 Old 03-23-2012, 08:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Brandon B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: LA lalalalala
Posts: 3,973
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I remember it for the off-type role it had Christopher Walken in. Haven't seen it since the theater.
Brandon B is offline  
post #3 of 106 Old 03-24-2012, 02:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
IanD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Loved the movie. Hate the graphics shown above and prefer the DVD graphics.

It's an ambivalent love though as the movie was released only a year after a parent's death from heart attack, which the respective scenes from the movie mirror disturbingly closely.

IIRC, Natalie Wood drowned before they finished filming.
IanD is offline  
post #4 of 106 Old 03-24-2012, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DM2006RI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Interesting movie for me, not altogether satisfying. The aspect ratio is always something of an issue too since the "brainstorm" scenes are 2.35 and the rest is, what, 1.85? That effect really only works if you're in a theater, since the only way to avoid going from straight 1.85 to 2.35 is "windowboxing" the 1.85 material in a 2.35 frame, which isn't particularly inviting on your TV. I never saw the last DVD so I don't know how they handled it.
DM2006RI is offline  
post #5 of 106 Old 03-24-2012, 11:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mhafner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,609
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 29
I hope it's a new transfer with the 65mm material transferred from 65mm.
mhafner is offline  
post #6 of 106 Old 03-24-2012, 11:17 AM
Senior Member
 
Neil S. Bulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern California
Posts: 248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
To be OAR the main narrative needs to be windowboxed at 1.85:1 with the brainstorm sequences expanding out to fill the width of the screen. That's how the movie gets the impact across.

Neil
Neil S. Bulk is offline  
post #7 of 106 Old 03-24-2012, 11:39 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 20,290
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil S. Bulk View Post

To be OAR the main narrative needs to be windowboxed at 1.85:1 with the brainstorm sequences expanding out to fill the width of the screen. That's how the movie gets the impact across.

The first Laserdisc release did this. The bulk of the movie was windowboxed into the middle of the screen with black bars on all four sides. Considering that this came during a time when most viewers watched on small 4:3 TVs, the effect wasn't very popular.

Later Laserdisc and DVD editions reversed the entire intent of the film, so that the "real world" scenes filled a 16:9 screen and the "brainstorm" scenes were letterboxed and smaller.

I'm curious how the Blu-ray will handle this. As a Constant Image Height viewer, I'd love a return to the proper OAR. However, as a realist, I expect that it will be handled the other way again.

Josh Z
Writer/Editor, High-Def Digest (Blog updated daily!)
Curator, Laserdisc Forever

My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers.

Josh Z is offline  
post #8 of 106 Old 03-24-2012, 01:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Fang Zei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
If the wider segments are at their idealized ratio, the 1.85:1 stuff would only need to be boxed inside a 2.20:1 window (If they even go that route). We'd still get a black border around the entire picture, but it would be more tolerable than it would be inside a 2.35:1 window.

Doug Trumbull has been back in the spotlight recently. Maybe we'll hear his opinion on how the blu-ray should be framed.
Fang Zei is offline  
post #9 of 106 Old 03-24-2012, 08:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
IanD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Isn't this just the same as IMAX/normal scene switching from Dark Knight and Transformers: 1.85:1 scenes fill the screen and 2.35:1 scenes fill the width with black bars top and bottom? Easily accomplished and everyone is familiar with the technique.

You don't need to windowbox 1.85:1 inside 2.35:1 for the average viewer, although that would be useful for CIH.
IanD is offline  
post #10 of 106 Old 03-24-2012, 10:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Fang Zei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DC
Posts: 380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
It's more about the intent of the movie. Back in '83, There was wide (academy) and there was wider (scope and 70mm). Today there's wide, wider and taller/bigger (IMAX). The Dark Knight's bigger segments were also the taller ones. That's not the case with Brainstorm.
Fang Zei is offline  
post #11 of 106 Old 03-25-2012, 05:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
John Ballentine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles, Ca.
Posts: 5,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The first Laserdisc release did this. The bulk of the movie was windowboxed into the middle of the screen with black bars on all four sides. Considering that this came during a time when most viewers watched on small 4:3 TVs, the effect wasn't very popular.

Later Laserdisc and DVD editions reversed the entire intent of the film, so that the "real world" scenes filled a 16:9 screen and the "brainstorm" scenes were letterboxed and smaller.

I'm curious how the Blu-ray will handle this. As a Constant Image Height viewer, I'd love a return to the proper OAR. However, as a realist, I expect that it will be handled the other way again.

The recently released (year or so ago) DVD has proper OAR and works perfect w/ CIH systems. The film is 1:78 and expands out to full 2:35 (w/ amazing impact) during brainstorm scenes. I assume the BD will be the same.
John Ballentine is offline  
post #12 of 106 Old 03-25-2012, 02:41 PM
Member
 
cashflagg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

The recently released (year or so ago) DVD has proper OAR and works perfect w/ CIH systems. The film is 1:78 and expands out to full 2:35 (w/ amazing impact) during brainstorm scenes. I assume the BD will be the same.

Exactly. Worked amazingly on my 2.37:1 projector screen. I hope the BD remains true the original presentation style.
cashflagg is offline  
post #13 of 106 Old 03-25-2012, 02:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Fanboyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Your saying that half the film will be the equivalent of a non-anamorphic 1.85 film on an HDTV?

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
Fanboyz is offline  
post #14 of 106 Old 03-25-2012, 03:28 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

Your saying that half the film will be the equivalent of a non-anamorphic 1.85 film on an HDTV?

Would it not be reverse Dark Knight?
dvdmike007 is offline  
post #15 of 106 Old 03-25-2012, 03:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Fanboyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 19
That would be.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
Fanboyz is offline  
post #16 of 106 Old 03-25-2012, 03:50 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 14,278
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 837 Post(s)
Liked: 1015
Lol, everyone is okay with Brainstorm having a "proper" OAR but then hate on TDK, T2, T:L, MI:4... lolz.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
post #17 of 106 Old 03-25-2012, 03:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Fanboyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Lol, everyone is okay with Brainstorm having a "proper" OAR but then hate on TDK, T2, T:L, MI:4... lolz.

Yes.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
That makes me awesome.
Fanboyz is offline  
post #18 of 106 Old 03-25-2012, 03:53 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Lol, everyone is okay with Brainstorm having a "proper" OAR but then hate on TDK, T2, T:L, MI:4... lolz.

None of those have the proper AR on BD they are all cropped for the IMAX scenes
dvdmike007 is offline  
post #19 of 106 Old 03-25-2012, 04:29 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 14,278
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 837 Post(s)
Liked: 1015
That's true. However, I doubt many would prefer to have their movie go from pillarbox to letterbox on and off again. Especially not any 2.35 screen owners.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
post #20 of 106 Old 03-26-2012, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Spizz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 3,375
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 28
cat-222ASR- Some cool stuff, info and links listed there. Thanks. Can't wait for the Blu-Ray release. Lets hope they do it justice.
Spizz is offline  
post #21 of 106 Old 03-26-2012, 06:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
spectator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,036
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

None of those have the proper AR on BD they are all cropped for the IMAX scenes

That is not correct. "Proper" AR for the IMAX scenes involves maximizing the available vertical area, such that the image, ideally, extends beyond the limits of your peripheral vision. Essentially, the "proper" AR of IMAX is no AR.

I don't feel special...
spectator is offline  
post #22 of 106 Old 03-26-2012, 08:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DM2006RI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Yeah I hope its not just a quick rush job to satisfy the needs of MGM for a few $million or ever now owns the rights I'm not sure if its Warner as the DVD was released under Warner and the Dolby AC-3 Laserdisc under MGM and I think the early Laserdic pressings and letterbox.

Like all the other MGM movies made from 1985 back, it's been Turner owned since the late '80s and Warner controlled (after they gobbled up Turner's library) since the late '90s. The current MGM has zip to do with it.
DM2006RI is offline  
post #23 of 106 Old 03-26-2012, 08:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked: 380
I saw Brainstorm in it's original release, in a huge theater, and experienced the "dream sequences" as mind-expanding and immersive when the image opened up. It always truck me as a bit of a mess of a movie, somewhat creaky and wooden, but I went back several times just to re-experience the
cool dream/brain stuff. (I was a big Trumbull fan as well).


Quote:
Originally Posted by cat-222ASR View Post

Nice review of Brainstorm at In-70mm, with actual 70mm frame showing the W/S shot while the rest of the fame is masked black until those expending moments sparkle up on the big screen.

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2008/brai...ease/index.htm

They have some re-prints of reviewer comments from when the movie came out. I love this one:

"“Why does the screen keep changing size? Was the movie shot with different types of film?”
— Bob Lundegaard, Minneapolis Star and Tribune"

LOL. There's a professional, informed reviewer!
R Harkness is online now  
post #24 of 106 Old 03-26-2012, 10:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Matt_Stevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 13,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Correction: I believe the non-brainstorm sequences were 1.66:1. Not 1.85:1.

Vimeo is the home of the Super8 Shooter...
http://vimeo.com/super8shooter
Matt_Stevens is offline  
post #25 of 106 Old 03-26-2012, 11:57 AM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post


That is not correct. "Proper" AR for the IMAX scenes involves maximizing the available vertical area, such that the image, ideally, extends beyond the limits of your peripheral vision. Essentially, the "proper" AR of IMAX is no AR.

Er no, just because you cannot see it without moving your head does not mean the shot was not composed at a certain ratio.
You are seeing less on the bd releases this cannot be technically argued.
dvdmike007 is offline  
post #26 of 106 Old 03-26-2012, 12:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
spectator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,036
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Er no, just because you cannot see it without moving your head does not mean the shot was not composed at a certain ratio.

Of course. Until there is a film frame of infinite proportion, all photography will always have an aspect ratio. However, that's entirely beside the point. If you attend multiple IMAX theatres, you will notice that they feature a plurality of aspect ratios. This is because the priority is not to produce an image of a particular proportion, nor an image that necessarily displays the entirety of the exposed film frame. The priority is to extend the frame beyond the viewer's periphery. To reproduce this effect (as much as possible) in the home video format, the entirety of the (1.78:1) video frame is used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

You are seeing less on the bd releases this cannot be technically argued.

Of course. And it's not a point I was arguing. The point I was arguing relates to the intent of the IMAX format; an intent which indicates that the Blu-ray releases of the films you cite are not transferred at an incorrect aspect-ratio.

I don't feel special...
spectator is offline  
post #27 of 106 Old 03-26-2012, 02:10 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
R Harkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,059
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat-222ASR View Post

Lucky you, so how many times did you get to see it and what was the name of the cinema and where did you sit? What was the whole show like from ads to trailers to film what was the ticket price?

I think I saw it about 3 times in the same theater. It was the now dismantled (of course) gloriously large, old theater The Uptown, in Toronto, which could accommodate such a huge image and specifications. I sat close - I always tended to sit within the first 3rd of the theater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat-222ASR View Post

I guess at the time it might have been confusing for you or those who saw it in the cinema. Internet wasn't around and information was bit hard to come by back then.

I was an SFX fan, bought all the FX magazines (I still think I have my Bladerunner Cinefx mag) so I knew what Trumbull was up to, and that the Showscan process was supposed to be used for the movie (and had to be abandoned because of the lack of cinemas that could accommodate the process). Still, the switches to the mental imagery were truly WOW moments - the combo of the huge image size increase and the wide angle lenses used to emphasize depth and a wider scope of view was just psychedelic in it's immersiveness.

That experience, and reading about Trumbull's Showscan left me yearning for years to see Showscan. It was nice to finally get the chance to see a Showscan presentation when visiting London. Even though it was presented as the equivalent of a "ride," seeing the amazing clarity and detail of Showscan was sort of a dream come true, and it's just really too bad the process never caught on.
R Harkness is online now  
post #28 of 106 Old 03-26-2012, 03:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 20,290
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

The recently released (year or so ago) DVD has proper OAR and works perfect w/ CIH systems. The film is 1:78 and expands out to full 2:35 (w/ amazing impact) during brainstorm scenes. I assume the BD will be the same.

I wasn't aware that there had been another DVD release. Thanks for the info.

Josh Z
Writer/Editor, High-Def Digest (Blog updated daily!)
Curator, Laserdisc Forever

My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers.

Josh Z is offline  
post #29 of 106 Old 03-26-2012, 04:48 PM
Super Moderator
 
DrDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 12,816
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 292
Bickering removed. Further off-topic posts will be removed and the poster banned from participating in the thread.

NOTE: The report post button is there for you to use. Rather than be baited into a fight, use the RP button lest someone else use it on YOU.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
DrDon is online now  
post #30 of 106 Old 03-26-2012, 04:52 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
http://www.youtube.com/movie?v=vzixs...&feature=mv_sr

Its on youtube if anyone wants to try the ratio
dvdmike007 is offline  
Reply Blu-ray Software

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off