100 Years of Universal: Restoring the Classics - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-27-2012, 05:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nick_danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,405
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Universal has announce the Sting for June. I have the HD-DVD which may not be perfect but is pretty darn good pq wise.



I am not so sure a 20 year old restoration will hold up on 2K display.

I believe he meant that the film itself was restored, he didn't say scanned. They should just take the restored film and give it a 4K+ scan and then not filter it.
nick_danger is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-27-2012, 06:39 PM
Member
 
NJPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Spartacus was a 70mm film restoration and all of the elements from it are suitable to create a new large format element to transfer. A few minor digital fixes and correct color timing of the new scan and it should be glorious.

NJPete is offline  
Old 03-27-2012, 06:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eric.exe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJPete View Post

Universal should have a near-perfect Dracula on Blu-ray. The 35mm print I ran a couple of years ago was brand new and flawless, but they are going back and re-scanning it to clean up some minor anomalies. I know a person involved with the scanning of the negative for this new version and it should be great.

For the 1000th time: 35mm print quality ≠ Blu-ray quality. Same goes for a director approving a master. There's at least 30 steps involved in getting a film on Blu-ray, and it only takes 1 idiot to screw it all up.
eric.exe is offline  
Old 03-27-2012, 07:12 PM
Member
 
NJPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post


For the 1000th time: 35mm print quality ? Blu-ray quality. Same goes for a director approving a master. There's at least 30 steps involved in getting a film on Blu-ray, and it only takes 1 idiot to screw it all up.

My point was to establish that Universal has the materials to make a good Blu-ray, since that was what was being discussed re: Dracula. Of course it could be screwed up after that.

NJPete is offline  
Old 03-27-2012, 07:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wuther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post

For the 1000th time: 35mm print quality ? Blu-ray quality. Same goes for a director approving a master. There's at least 30 steps involved in getting a film on Blu-ray, and it only takes 1 idiot to screw it all up.

I am pretty sure Universal has more then one idiot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_danger View Post

I believe he meant that the film itself was restored, he didn't say scanned. They should just take the restored film and give it a 4K+ scan and then not filter it.

I was not writing about scans either. There is 'restored' and then there is actually restored.
wuther is offline  
Old 03-28-2012, 05:58 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Dave Mack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 11,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.exe View Post


For the 1000th time: 35mm print quality ? Blu-ray quality. Same goes for a director approving a master. There's at least 30 steps involved in getting a film on Blu-ray, and it only takes 1 idiot to screw it all up.

Bingo
Dave Mack is offline  
Old 03-28-2012, 09:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
spectator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,036
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat-222ASR View Post

standards on bluray are slipping to an all-time low



They are?!

Coulda fooled me!

I don't feel special...
spectator is offline  
Old 03-28-2012, 04:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,486
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

I was not writing about scans either. There is 'restored' and then there is actually restored.

The trouble with Spartacus is that the negative was badly faded, so they optically combined the original B&W separations and recorded them out to a new large-format dupe neg (a painstaking process owing to the rarity of equipment needed for the horizontal 35mm Technirama -> 65mm dupe conversion). Could those seps be scanned and precisely aligned with today's tech? Or could the original neg even be resurrected thanks to a bit of digital wizardry? I'm no expert but I don't see why not.

But if Universal don't want to do a lot of leg work then the 1991 restoration neg should still be in good condition, and I don't think that it would take a monumental effort to extract a good looking image from it. Sadly, they don't even want to go that far. IMO the only people who can rescue it from home video purgatory are Criterion, but if they have to do the transfer themselves (because Universal obviously don't give a crap) it'd be a very expensive project for such a relatively small label.
Geoff D is offline  
Old 03-28-2012, 04:26 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

The trouble with Spartacus is that the negative was badly faded, so they optically combined the original B&W separations and recorded them out to a new large-format dupe neg (a painstaking process owing to the rarity of equipment needed for the horizontal 35mm Technirama -> 65mm dupe conversion). Could those seps be scanned and precisely aligned with today's tech? Or could the original neg even be resurrected thanks to a bit of digital wizardry? I'm no expert but I don't see why not.

But if Universal don't want to do a lot of leg work then the 1991 restoration neg should still be in good condition, and I don't think that it would take a monumental effort to extract a good looking image from it. Sadly, they don't even want to go that far. IMO the only people who can rescue it from home video purgatory are Criterion, but if they have to do the transfer themselves (because Universal obviously don't give a crap) it'd be a very expensive project for such a relatively small label.

All it would take is time and money.
dvdmike007 is offline  
Old 03-29-2012, 05:29 AM
Senior Member
 
Dan Average's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

The trouble with Spartacus is that the negative was badly faded, so they optically combined the original B&W separations and recorded them out to a new large-format dupe neg (a painstaking process owing to the rarity of equipment needed for the horizontal 35mm Technirama -> 65mm dupe conversion). Could those seps be scanned and precisely aligned with today's tech? Or could the original neg even be resurrected thanks to a bit of digital wizardry? I'm no expert but I don't see why not.

Warner Bros. routinely does digital realignment of Technicolor separations -- Meet Me in St. Louis, The Wizard of Oz, Gone With the Wind, and The Adventures of Robin Hood have all benefited from this process, among others. Other outfits have done it as well, e.g. Cineteca di Bologna on Senso. That said, it does have its limits, at least according to Robert Harris here -- and Harris has also said that a new digital restoration of Spartacus wouldn't be worth the expense.
Dan Average is offline  
Old 03-29-2012, 08:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,486
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Yeah, I remembered those ones from Warners after I'd posted. It's certainly feasible to combine the seps then, but it's not worth the cost given that perfectly good materials already exist. Mr Harris' 2nd point underscores my specific reason for mentioning Spartacus in this thread: it won't take heroic measures to produce a good transfer using extant elements.
Geoff D is offline  
Old 03-30-2012, 07:03 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
oink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Shuloch
Posts: 26,553
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 818
Lemme see if I have this right...
Universal's 100 Years series released The Blue Brothers on March 6 and...ummm...forgot to include lossless...again?
Gee, thanx Universal...again.

A.P.S. deserve our protection....join the cause today!
oink is offline  
Old 03-30-2012, 07:45 PM
 
haineshisway's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 581
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
My feeling is that with today's technology Spartacus should absolutely be revisited in every way. Seeing it back when it came out was one of the greatest movie going experiences ever - that's what I want on Blu-ray.
haineshisway is offline  
Old 03-30-2012, 07:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
42041's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 3,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

The trouble with Spartacus is that the negative was badly faded, so they optically combined the original B&W separations and recorded them out to a new large-format dupe neg (a painstaking process owing to the rarity of equipment needed for the horizontal 35mm Technirama -> 65mm dupe conversion). Could those seps be scanned and precisely aligned with today's tech? Or could the original neg even be resurrected thanks to a bit of digital wizardry? I'm no expert but I don't see why not.

From my experience with photo restoration, severe enough color fading can be extremely difficult to correct (without resulting in flat, unnatural colors), since the color information that was there is just completely gone. I don't know if all color separations were made correctly, but I was watching South Pacific a few days ago and some of the film seemed to be culled from separations, slightly softer with some color fringing. The colors, however, looked richer and with more subtle, natural gradation than the rest of the film. Makes me wonder why so many restorations use faded Eastmancolor elements as the source.
42041 is offline  
Old 03-30-2012, 08:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wuther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by haineshisway View Post

My feeling is that with today's technology Spartacus should absolutely be revisited in every way. Seeing it back when it came out was one of the greatest movie going experiences ever - that's what I want on Blu-ray.

I am sure WB could do a great job with the existing elements (although they might orange and teal it) but I would not trust Universal to hold a paper bag correctly.
wuther is offline  
Old 03-31-2012, 03:29 AM
Advanced Member
 
davcole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 936
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by haineshisway View Post

My feeling is that with today's technology Spartacus should absolutely be revisited in every way. Seeing it back when it came out was one of the greatest movie going experiences ever - that's what I want on Blu-ray.

One of my favorite films and given that there is a 65mm restoration interpositive, all that would seem needed is a little digital correction and it should be stellar. I know that the Criterion DVD looked heads and tales better than the original Universal DVD, which I believe was based off a 35mm dupe, while the Criterion is based on the 65mm interpositive.
davcole is offline  
Old 03-31-2012, 08:32 AM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
There is a non oar HD print damaged non dnr version on itv4 HD right now.
Normally this would be the last version I would watch, but when the pickings are slim...
dvdmike007 is offline  
Old 03-31-2012, 12:48 PM
 
haineshisway's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 581
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

I am sure WB could do a great job with the existing elements (although they might orange and teal it) but I would not trust Universal to hold a paper bag correctly.

I'm not sure about WB anymore, frankly. The studio that would get it right is Sony.
haineshisway is offline  
Old 03-31-2012, 06:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wuther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

There is a non oar HD print damaged non dnr version on itv4 HD right now.
Normally this would be the last version I would watch, but when the pickings are slim...

Of Spartacus? How is that any different then the Spartacus BD?
wuther is offline  
Old 04-01-2012, 04:27 AM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post


Of Spartacus? How is that any different then the Spartacus BD?

No dnr and its cropped
dvdmike007 is offline  
Old 04-01-2012, 05:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wuther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

No dnr and its cropped

I think I missread your other post. The itv4 version has no dnr right?
wuther is offline  
Old 04-01-2012, 05:18 AM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

I think I missread your other post. The itv4 version has no dnr right?

From the 10 mins I saw there was a ton of messy grain and little to no DNR
dvdmike007 is offline  
Old 04-01-2012, 12:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wuther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

From the 10 mins I saw there was a ton of messy grain and little to no DNR

Ok, I think I was on a cherry pie high when I posted that dumb question. Did you manage to record any of it?
wuther is offline  
Old 04-01-2012, 01:02 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Ok, I think I was on a cherry pie high when I posted that dumb question. Did you manage to record any of it?

No sadly was heading out for the night and it was conflicting with another recording, I will get it when it is next on.
It has been on a few times but I ignored it as it was non oar.
dvdmike007 is offline  
Old 04-02-2012, 08:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
egrady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Posts: 1,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

From the 10 mins I saw there was a ton of messy grain and little to no DNR

Which is what a zoom in of part of the image should look like. I shudder to think what a zoom in of a heavly DNR'd image would look like.
egrady is offline  
Old 04-03-2012, 05:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wuther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Buck Privates (Abbott and Costello)

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Buck-P.../36918/#Review

Looks more promising then the Mockingbird Massacre. Some EE, does it look kinda cartoony to anybody else?
wuther is offline  
Old 04-03-2012, 05:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dex Robinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Winnipeg, MB Canada
Posts: 778
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Buck Privates (Abbott and Costello)


Looks more promising then the Mockingbird Massacre.


I'm actually more impressed with what I see than the reviewer is.

Frankly, the hysteria over DNR is getting tiresome. The next member of the usual suspects who says "DNR'd to death" should be clubbed to death. I think the grain and detail is decent...not perfect but not out of line with average transfers.

The visible EE....which I think is Universal's most egregious sin...is less here than in most of their titles. Yes, it's obvious in a couple of shots but it's not obvious in all shots.

It looks good to me. No great, not perfect...but good. And I know their are many who think that "good" isn't good enough and that's fair. That's why the free market exists...so that people aren't compelled to buy things that they aren't pleased with.

I love the movie. The screenshots look good. My pre-order stands.
Dex Robinson is offline  
Old 04-03-2012, 05:57 PM
 
dvdmike007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 8,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex Robinson View Post


I'm actually more impressed with what I see than the reviewer is.

Frankly, the hysteria over DNR is getting tiresome. The next member of the usual suspects who says "DNR'd to death" should be clubbed to death. I think the grain and detail is decent...not perfect but not out of line with average transfers.

The visible EE....which I think is Universal's most egregious sin...is less here than in most of their titles. Yes, it's obvious in a couple of shots but it's not obvious in all shots.

It looks good to me. No great, not perfect...but good. And I know their are many who think that "good" isn't good enough and that's fair. That's why the free market exists...so that people aren't compelled to buy things that they aren't pleased with.

I love the movie. The screenshots look good. My pre-order stands.

There is no reason to dnr a non damaged print at all, and if the print is damaged then only the damage should be touched.
I would prefer to see the damage personally.
dvdmike007 is offline  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wuther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex Robinson View Post

I'm actually more impressed with what I see than the reviewer is.

Maybe the reviewer saw frozen film grain or strange movements although I cannot find it stated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex Robinson View Post

Frankly, the hysteria over DNR is getting tiresome. The next member of the usual suspects who says "DNR'd to death" should be clubbed to death. I think the grain and detail is decent...not perfect but not out of line with average transfers.

I wish there was hysteria over DNR, most often absurd excuses are made for dnr, my maddenly favourites being 'It was like that in theater' and 'It's pancake makeup".
wuther is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 07:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,486
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Buck Privates (Abbott and Costello)

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Buck-P.../36918/#Review

Looks more promising then the Mockingbird Massacre. Some EE, does it look kinda cartoony to anybody else?

It looks a little smoothed-over in the caps but there IS still a layer of fine grain there and I'd bet it looks pretty darned nice in motion. If you offered me Fox's Longest Day looking like that I'd bite your hand off.
Geoff D is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off