Total Recall Special Edition (1990) - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 547 Old 08-01-2012, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

P.P.S. Can any video experts chime in on the 24 fps versus 23.976 fps. Technically 24 is more accurate, but I've only seen 23.976 fps for video before...

I was under the impression that 23.976 is the actual correct numbers for what we all know as 24fps and if it's doing 24.00 it's doing something wrong!
Anyone else cause I'm not 100% on this one?
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post #362 of 547 Old 08-01-2012, 08:27 AM
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Thus far only had the time to watch the first hour and what I have seen looks fantastic. High frequency fine detail is beautifully resolved throughout the film, the exceptions would be with shots and sequences with optical effects and those are indeed softer. I do not think it is all that distracting but it is noticeable when contrasted with the rest of the film.

I do not know if this replicates the original intended color timing but overall what is here is excellent, no more clipped or blooming highlights for example. Shadow detail is great and thankfully they did not crush the blacks for more pop. Trade off though for some is infrequent instances where contrast does not have the excessively vaunted 'inky blacks', which often comes at the cost of shadow detail.

Due to the color timing flesh tones in particular can be rather curious in their inconsistency in certain instances. I think it stands out more due to the more pinkish/reddish hues since we have been accustomed and conditioned to accept orange as 'accurate' skin tones. Always laugh and roll my eyes when reviews extoll the virtues of teal/orange color timed films to have accurate, lifelike, and pleasing skin tones.

Sound is as it should be but those accustomed to contemporary action movie mixes maybe slightly dissatisfied. It does have some nice bass but not throbbing or bloated; top end is quite dynamic though at times it can be a bit too pronounced for my tastes. Dialogue is clear and to me sounds more dynamic and less restrained by processing than heard often these days. I will have rewatch the film and pay closer attention to the sound mix for a more concise assessment.

As far as I am concerned if all catalog titles were treated this well, in respects to the picture quality in particular, the medium would be astronomically superior.
Imagine if Blade Runner received a new encode it would look as good if not better than this.

My verdict is if you have the prior releases, chuck them. Why be cruel and hock those abominations on unsuspecting fans.

Does anyone know if PV has plans to work on some of his other works, such as Starship Troopers or Robocop?

Best Regards
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PS Yes the screen caps taken by reputable sources were accurate and representative of the 'in-motion' test.

-Diatribe pending.
The thing that I find to be a real negative, and this is an issue for many discs -Disney cough, about this release is Lionsgate propensity and asinine stupidity in the damn forced trailers before the menu.
One cannot press the Top Menu to skip to the Menu proper, one has to skip forward for each trailer. Then you have sit through another Studio Canal moniker video.

Absolutely loath and despise forced trailers before the menu, it is a terrible obnoxious marketing gimmick that unnecessarily burdens and annoys legitimate paying customers. Provides plenty of incentive for folks to rip their collections to remove those excessive indulgences.

It makes absolutely no sense in the long term to have an 'up and coming' trailer fest when six months later those titles have already been released and likely been viewed or purchased by the viewer.

In practice I am far more inclined to actually watch included trailers if I can choose to watch them from the menu. Never should be required to press more than one button to actually get to the menu and the button press should solely be 'Play'.

Next annoyance is trailers and studio monikers that are excessively louder than the movie proper. Especially obnoxious are trailers and intro that are grossly distorted, Anime and Indie release seem to be repeat offenders in this regard.

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post #363 of 547 Old 08-01-2012, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by shamus View Post

I was under the impression that 23.976 is the actual correct numbers for what we all know as 24fps and if it's doing 24.00 it's doing something wrong!
Anyone else cause I'm not 100% on this one?

23.976 is actually what we commonly refer to as 24p. This movie is infact encoded at 24.000fps but that is set during encoding, no consumer systems is decoding it improperly. I have noticed that Studio Canal has been releasing some catalog movies at this framerate lately, such as this, Raw Deal, and Red Heat (EU) (all Arnie films, but what I remember right now). I think they are improperly enconding them.

If people notice the movie is out of sync on their systems, it's probably because their equipment is having an issue with the 24.000 framerate which isn't exactly common.

Michael

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post #364 of 547 Old 08-01-2012, 10:19 AM
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So far, so good. A couple simple, first impressions: the image appears more detailed overall and LFE has more impact at the same levels, especially noticeable in the score. Some of the earlier screenshots showing washed out colors are just plain wrong - I'm not seeing anything like that. The image is brighter, yes, but I think those caps are misleading if not viewed in context. Skin tones are certainly rosey, but I'll take that over orange any day! What struck me more than anything is that the new disc appears smoother in motion than the old disc. It could be the bump up in fine detail and the lack of artifacts, but it just looks better in pans and fast action... more filmlike, less digital.

Well worth the meager asking price.

BTW, anyone want to buy my old copy? tongue.gif
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post #365 of 547 Old 08-01-2012, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post

23.976 is actually what we commonly refer to as 24p. This movie is infact encoded at 24.000fps but that is set during encoding, no consumer systems is decoding it improperly. I have noticed that Studio Canal has been releasing some catalog movies at this framerate lately, such as this, Raw Deal, and Red Heat (EU) (all Arnie films, but what I remember right now). I think they are improperly enconding them.
If people notice the movie is out of sync on their systems, it's probably because their equipment is having an issue with the 24.000 framerate which isn't exactly common.

StudioCanal have been doing stuff in 24.000fps for a while, I remember my old samsung player stuttering with their original UK release of Stargate. Linewalker's post above mentions dropped frames re: Total Recall, and least one review I've read has also mentioned dropped frames. I didn't notice anything untoward on my Panny BBT01 though.
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post #366 of 547 Old 08-01-2012, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Neil S. Bulk View Post

I took a quick look at it. It's certainly very sharp. The volume was lower than expected, but a few clicks up on my receiver solved that. My Oppo said the frame rate was 24 Hz. Usually it says 23.976 Hz. Anyone have any idea what difference this would make?
I'm very happy to replace my old disc with this one. And once I see it in 70mm, I'll know precisely what it's supposed to look like.
Your display with have to dupe 1 frame every 1000 seconds (~17 minutes) to keep sync

I would think that if your display is natively 23.976 (or 59.94) and is being fed a 24.000 (60.00) signal, the display would actually have to drop frames to stay in sync (as LineWalker and Geoff D mention). This would happen with 1 out of every 1000 frames, which works out to one dropped frame approximately every 42 seconds.

I don't know for sure if this is what actually happens in this scenario, but it seems likely. I do own at least one 24.000 disc (the UK release of Highlander) and my TV is an older 1080i (59.94) model, but haven't tested the combination yet.
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post #367 of 547 Old 08-01-2012, 09:20 PM
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"This would happen with 1 out of every 1000 frames, which works out to one dropped frame approximately every 42 seconds."

That's funny, because this is what happens on most blu's on my projection system. I have a PS3 and a JVC RS20.......beuler? rolleyes.gif

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post #368 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by KBMAN View Post

"This would happen with 1 out of every 1000 frames, which works out to one dropped frame approximately every 42 seconds."
That's funny, because this is what happens on most blu's on my projection system. I have a PS3 and a JVC RS20.......beuler? rolleyes.gif
I used to get the periodic (and I guess it was probably every 42 seconds) frame drop issue in 1080p24 mode on my Samsung TV a few years ago, but a firmware update fixed that.
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post #369 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 09:53 AM
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anyone else want to comment on their copies of this disc??? And please compare and mention what other versions you have; that would help;)

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post #370 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 10:51 AM
 
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anyone else want to comment on their copies of this disc??? And please compare and mention what other versions you have; that would help;)

I had contrary to popular belief watched the actual disc.
But for obvious reasons I will leave my comments on the transfer well alone!
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post #371 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

How I wish that the following movies were treating in the same manner: 2010, Conan the Barbarian, Dune, Enter the Dragon, Escape From New York, First Blood, Gremlins, Halloween, The Last Starfighter, Predator, Red Heat, The Running man, RoboCop, Raw Deal, The Terminator, Terminator 2: Judgment Day, The Thing, and many others...

Both 2010 and Dune meet the criteria you claim to want. Both are pretty much straightforward film scans without digital molestation. 2010 is a heavily grainy movie by nature, and the Blu-ray suffers some compression problems due to low bit rate. The film elements for the Dune Blu-ray have some dirt and damage that wasn't cleaned up. Both are otherwise free of DNR, sharpening and other crap that would lead to a "processed" appearance.

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post #372 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

What is the consensus on the stupid trailers at the beginning? On a PS3, there's no way to go to the "Top Menu." One has to skip through all of the trailers manually. Is this true for other players, or editions (like the UK)? Annoying.
I am not sure, but I think almost all players are that way.

The reason why the TOP MENU button is disabled is the same reason why television networks hate DVRs.wink.gif

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post #373 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

I had contrary to popular belief watched the actual disc.
But for obvious reasons I will leave my comments on the transfer well alone!
Suddenly, it's in to be cryptic.
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post #374 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

Josh Z, neither of the movies have a good modern 2K scan. They both came from archaic DVD era scans/masters.

2010 most certainly did not. It wasn't even the same transfer as the version shown on HDNet. It was a new scan. And I don't care if I'm mocked for this but as a huge fan of the film (and 2001) I was *very* happy with the A/V quality of that BD.

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post #375 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

Josh Z, neither of the movies have a good modern 2K scan. They both came from archaic DVD era scans/masters.

You could not possibly be more wrong about this. Have you actually watched either disc? Have you seen the DVD editions of either?

The only DVD edition of 2010 was non-anamorphic letterbox. As Peter already responded, the Blu-ray was a new 2k scan that was different than even the broadcast HD masters. The movie has a very dark and grainy photographic style, and aside from some compression problems, that is accurately reflected on the Blu-ray.

You do not want to challenge me on Dune. I know this movie on a frame-by-frame basis. Except for the recent 3D conversion released in Germany (my copy is ordered and pending arrival), I've seen and own every video transfer of this movie that has ever been struck, anywhere in the world. I watched the American Blu-ray, the UK Blu-ray and another recent German Blu-ray just last week.

Universal's American Blu-ray release is not an "archaic DVD era scan/master." It's a direct port of the HD DVD edition. At the time of the HD DVD's release in 2006, it was a brand new master (quite unusual for Universal) that looks an order of magnitude better than the studio's prior DVD from a few years earlier, which had been DNR'ed to hell and back. The HD DVD and Blu-ray are not DNR'ed or "processed." At all. They are exceptionally film-like. Their only flaw is the aforementioned minor dirt and damage on the film elements.

If you're going to insist that the Dune Blu-ray is an "archaic DVD era scan/master," you quite bluntly do not know what you're talking about.

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post #376 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 02:04 PM
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You do not want to challenge me on Dune.
You really don't. smile.gif
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post #377 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 02:21 PM
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I am not sure, but I think almost all players are that way.
The reason why the TOP MENU button is disabled is the same reason why television networks hate DVRs.wink.gif

This is one reason why the first thing I do with a new title is to rip it to a BD ISO. Then I can play it over my network with either with the full menus and trailers intact. Or I can just play the movie only, bypassing all the extraneous content.

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post #378 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

2010 most certainly did not. It wasn't even the same transfer as the version shown on HDNet. It was a new scan. And I don't care if I'm mocked for this but as a huge fan of the film (and 2001) I was *very* happy with the A/V quality of that BD.
Absotruthly. I like 2010 a fair bit, and the BD competently reproduces Hyams' grainy anamorphic photography.
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post #379 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 03:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

dvdmike007, I'm curious to read your review, as are many others around here. Please post your thoughts!

Because you asked nicely, sure

Honestly I just do not like how it looks, it comes across a little too clean and modern and I always thought of TR as grimey, I dislike the colour changes and the digital colour timing, but I dislike it in all movies.
I just think DNR and bad encoding tho it may have, the original UK release looks more natural and more like a film of its age, neither release is perfect not in any way but I just like the look of the old disc.
I do not see why the changes were made, bar trying to make it look more modern for an audience that only knows the new remake.
I can see the reasoning behind restoring films, but since it takes more than one person to make a film look a certain way in camera, just one persons view 20 years after could be cause for concern like French Connection where the director made choices and angered the cinematographer.
I think the extras are great to have and it you do not own any other version, or want the extras jump in 100%, but I already had the old disc and do not like teal make overs personally.
Didn't notice much change in the sound but was mostly looking at the picture.

I do not think anyone should share my view and I do not think anyone should make me share theirs, its just a personal preference.

and after all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVv5sIY57TA&feature=player_detailpage#t=109s

Also after recent events, I will not respond to challenges on my point of view, if you have an issue watch the above link again smile.gif
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post #380 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 05:25 PM
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I do not think anyone should share my view and I do not think anyone should make me share theirs, its just a personal preference.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I find myself agreeing with your opinion more often than not, and I still respect it when I don't agree. I'd prefer you keep speaking your mind, even when not asked smile.gif


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post #381 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

2010 most certainly did not. It wasn't even the same transfer as the version shown on HDNet. It was a new scan. And I don't care if I'm mocked for this but as a huge fan of the film (and 2001) I was *very* happy with the A/V quality of that BD.

Agree 100%.
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post #382 of 547 Old 08-02-2012, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

What is the consensus on the stupid trailers at the beginning? [snip] Is this true for other players, or editions (like the UK)?

The Canadian disc doesn't have any trailers before the menu, but does include a warning along with the studio logos.



A meaningless statement that applies to any AV content, ever. The movie encode matches US/UK.
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post #383 of 547 Old 08-03-2012, 02:29 AM
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I do not think anyone should share my view and I do not think anyone should make me share theirs, its just a personal preference.
I appreciate and often agree with your point of view, for what it's worth.

I think the trouble with Total Recall is that much of the forum is coming at this based on the US release, while some of us have lived with the UK release. Far as I'm aware, the UK release was already better than the US one, so the new transfer had less to improve upon.

Everyone should remember that all of these are opinions, not facts. What should be important to anyone reading this thread is that there isn't an 100% concensus that this new transfer is a good one - in fact it seems to have been quite divisive. So take that as you will when deciding if this new disc is worth your money.
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post #384 of 547 Old 08-03-2012, 04:06 AM
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post #385 of 547 Old 08-03-2012, 05:34 AM
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Oh joy. Another screen one has to wade-thru to get to the entertainment. It is amazing to me that none of the people involved in these decisions (to insert logos/trailers/warnings/B.S. in the playback chain) have Home Theaters thus have no clue how annoying these are. I mean, they can't possibly think that racking-up a disc and suffering through this crap is making consumers happy?

rolleyes.gif

Just like the disclaimers for Compact Discs of old music albums ("may reveal limitations of the analog tape source") this sorta junk is best left to the packaging!

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The Canadian disc doesn't have any trailers before the menu, but does include a warning along with the studio logos.

A meaningless statement that applies to any AV content, ever. The movie encode matches US/UK.
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post #386 of 547 Old 08-03-2012, 12:46 PM
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like all disney/pixar films, I'm sorta used to the >> button to wade thru all the BS. I will do the same for Total Recall, if I get the disc. This doesn't mean I'm in support of having trailers; hate them unless I'm making popcorn wink.gif

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post #387 of 547 Old 08-03-2012, 01:00 PM
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So is the Lossless DTS-MA audio better than the Lossy DTS-HD Hi RES audio that was on the other US BD release? I haven't had a chance to watch any of it in my main setup that can decode the HD audio.

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post #388 of 547 Old 08-03-2012, 01:27 PM
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I watched the new mind-bending version last night. No questions whatsoever, the new release is WELL worth the $7.99 it cost me. It's such a dramatic improvement that I would never feel right about trying to charge someone money for the old Blu-ray release. I'll give it away to a library or something.

BTW, one thing I did think to do was switch the keepcases. The new SE came in one of those swiss-cheese eco cases. I swapped the artwork (and, of course, discs) between the old and new and now I have an SE version in a quality keepcase.

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post #389 of 547 Old 08-03-2012, 03:28 PM
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Be careful when you open the product for the first time because the security stickers can destroy the case when you try to remove them as the eco cases are significantly more fragile than the traditional ones. Mine broke and damaged the cover insert so I had to replace it with a regular case.
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post #390 of 547 Old 08-03-2012, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

So is the Lossless DTS-MA audio better than the Lossy DTS-HD Hi RES audio that was on the other US BD release? I haven't had a chance to watch any of it in my main setup that can decode the HD audio.

I would say yes. Not leaps and bounds better but it's good enough for the price. I'm surprised we didn't get a 7.1 which is Lionsgate's usual routine, but the latest 5.1 is fine and all that is needed for a non-surround friendly mix like Total Recall.
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Blu Ray Movies , Total Recall Mind Bending Edition Blu Ray , Robocop Blu Ray
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