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post #91 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Do you honestly think it was a good idea to base a whole movie around the stupid decisions of stupid scientists? If that's the sort of movie Ridley Scott wanted to make, he should have cast Jim Carrey and Adam Sandler in the leads and played it as an intentional comedy.


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Yes because Dallas was super smart, oh and Ash sticking his face into dangerous looking thing nothing like anything in prometheus....
Yeah alien is paragon of smart people and depth of writing.
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post #92 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 03:33 PM
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Jeez, I come back to this thread to hear possibly more info about the discs and people are still throwing hissy fits over this movie.
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post #93 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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As I said earlier, I made this thread way too early
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post #94 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 03:47 PM
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THANK YOU !!! Dallas in the vents "uhhh....uhhh". Chasing the cat (TWO characters!) Lambert: "I like gripeing." Kane sticking his face into the alien egg, etc, etc, etc.
So I don't even wanna hear it about any "dumb" characters in PROMETHEUS. Characters doing dumb things have been a staple of movies since the beginning. At least PROMETHEUS gave us a little something to chew on and debate. Hope the director's cut provides even more info.

Oh, and before someone chimes in with "The theatrical version IS the director's cut"...well, yes it is...given the venue and time constraints (shorter run time = more showings and concession sales per day), as well as contractual rating requirements...then yeah, the theatrical is the director's cut...for those theatrical showings. But not necessarily the best versions to tell the story. It's already been reoported that PROMETHEUS was supposed to be a two-parter. Then, even the single film had nearly half-an-hour excised to keep the runtime in the 2-hr arena. Sounds pretty damn compromised to me.

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post #95 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 03:48 PM
 
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As I said earlier, I made this thread way too early


yeeeeep
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post #96 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 03:53 PM
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The Thing Fom Another World woke up and started punching people.
I didn't have a problem with that scene.
I honestly thought it would be a benign contact between the creator and its creation.
Why?
Because RS had been setting it up that way.
I didn't sense malice from the Engineers until that point in time.

The "awakening" was the first hint of a different agenda for Engineers towards Humans.
In that sense, it is a shock...which is EXACTLY what sci-fi horror is supposed to do.wink.gif

Of course, YMMV.smile.gif

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post #97 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 03:56 PM
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As I said earlier, I made this thread way too early
For those who want to keep the threads on separate rails, here is AVS Forum's long discussion regarding the content of Prometheus:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1155877/alien-prequel-prometheus

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post #98 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 04:49 PM
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So I don't even wanna hear it about any "dumb" characters in PROMETHEUS. Characters doing dumb things have been a staple of movies since the beginning.

This lowering of the bar is so depressing. I guess there is enough of you out there that, well, we get what you are satisfied with from much of hollywood. Characters doing idiotic things? I don't care. No problem, since I've been fine with that so often in the past.

As it happens, though, characters doing dumb things, at least on the scale of Prometheus, is not somehow fated just because it's a movie. I watch movies almost every night and the vast majority of the time I am not slapped in the face by the idiocy on screen. This can be because the characters are acting believably in the situation, or sometimes because the film-making is deft enough to make it dramatically accepted and not a head-banging moment. I've worked on TV shows that have gone entire seasons with characters doing mostly believable things. The situations may not always be "real" per se, but the reactions of the characters - what someone would believably do in such a scenario - feel authentic. Whereas Prometheus in a mere two hours or so is filled with so many WFT moments per scene/ per character it's literally amazing. Especially for a movie from an intelligent director, aiming at intelligent themes, it's really exceptional
in that regard. So this "Ah...most movies are dumb anyway" routine from people who want to paint others as curmudgeons just doesn't wash.

There's another forum I'm on and people began discussing their reaction to Prometheus and over and over the same theme came out: the "scientists" acted so idiotically it became just impossible to empathize with them or believe what was going on. We know these people aren't really on another planet, but it at least helps SELL the idea if someone seems to act believably GIVEN the scenario.

Again...I enjoyed Prometheus. But nonetheless, much of the criticism hurled at the film strikes me as quite justifiable.

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At least PROMETHEUS gave us a little something to chew on and debate.

I LOVE the themes that occur in Prometheus. (I've been addicted to science and philosophy for decades, and hang out in forums devoted to such discussions). However, simply raising a deep issue is not terribly compelling if it isn't raised, and explored iintelligently. A stoner taking a puff of a spliff, looking up at the stars and declaring "Hey man...ever wonder...like..why we are all here?" may be raising a deep question...but in a facile way and you can treat deep questions in a dumb manner. The thing about the deep issues raised by Prometheus is that they don't seem to have been treated in a particularly deep or intelligent manner. They arise in a stew of events and actions on screen that over, and over seem poorly thought out that (the actions of the characters, the clumsiness of the "science" etc) that it undercuts (for me) the weight of the questions. And insofar as Prometheus is supposed to "make us think" by giving us plot mysteries - leaving so much unexplained about whys and what we are seeing - the general stupidity of the writing and almost Plan-9-From-Outer-Space level of character logic gives me very little confidence that the answers to these questions are going to be intelligent, satisfying or well reasoned themselves. It just doesn't invite me to wonder too hard what the mysteries are, given the laziness displayed all over the script.

Was it a fun romp here and there and beautiful to watch, with some nice atmosphere and a great performance by Fassbender? Yup. I want the Blu-Ray because of those elements.


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I didn't have a problem with that scene.
I honestly thought it would be a benign contact between the creator and its creation.
Why?
Because RS had been setting it up that way.
I didn't sense malice from the Engineers until that point in time.
The "awakening" was the first hint of a different agenda for Engineers towards Humans.
In that sense, it is a shock...which is EXACTLY what sci-fi horror is supposed to do.wink.gif
Of course, YMMV.smile.gif

For me the Engineer waking up scene was the moment that crystallized my disappointment with the crappy elements of the movie. The beginning of the movie sets up the Engineers as looking like intellectual almost god-like beings, clearly possessed of incredibly advanced knowledge, technology, and with mysterious plans. That underlying theme of how advanced, intelligent and mysterious the Engineers must be was at some level compelling as part of the mystery. What WERE they up to and what do they want of us? We finally get to see the first human interaction, an actual Engineer wakens in front of the remaining cast, stands majestically in front of them. At this point I hoped for some intelligence, something intellectually satisfying, some "meeting of minds" to see what these grand creatures are about. What choice instead was made by the film-makers " RAAAAWWWRRRR....smash, crush, rip, bang...chase.." It was that decision to turn what could have been a moment of intellectual satisfaction (which is one element of great sci-fi) and say "Let's have him just go berserk! Gotta get some action in!" As an audience member I was ready to give it the benefit of a doubt, but right then felt like I was treated as the lowest common denominator who would always demand a HULK SMASH rampage over anything more challenging. (Contrast that with for example Roy Batty in BladeRunner. Sure he provided some good action chasing around Deckard during the climax. But the pivotal element is that when Roy finally has Deckard...he doesn't kill him. But feels mercy, empathy for him, and he instead poetically talks of his own remorse about passing away. The pay off isn't "smash bang kill" - the pay off is the intelligence and complexity that emerges and surprises you. It takes determination and effort to come up with moments like these that make for deeper, lasting quality. It's the easy way out to just write smashem up action instead of complexity, which is pretty much the route they went in Prometheus with the silly rampage by the Engineer).

Prometheus has just so many of these "blown opportunity" for greatness moments it's really just too bad.
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post #99 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 05:01 PM
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This lowering of the bar is so depressing. I guess there is enough of you out there that, well, we get what you are satisfied with from much of hollywood. Characters doing idiotic things? I don't care. No problem, since I've been fine with that so often in the past.
The bar is where it's always been. Great films are very rare. If "good" wasn't good enough, I'd have given up on movies many times over.
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post #100 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 05:46 PM
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I LOVE the themes that occur in Prometheus. (I've been addicted to science and philosophy for decades, and hang out in forums devoted to such discussions). However, simply raising a deep issue is not terribly compelling if it isn't raised, and explored iintelligently. A stoner taking a puff of a spliff, looking up at the stars and declaring "Hey man...ever wonder...like..why we are all here?" may be raising a deep question...but in a facile way and you can treat deep questions in a dumb manner. The thing about the deep issues raised by Prometheus is that they don't seem to have been treated in a particularly deep or intelligent manner. They arise in a stew of events and actions on screen that over, and over seem poorly thought out that (the actions of the characters, the clumsiness of the "science" etc) that it undercuts (for me) the weight of the questions. And insofar as Prometheus is supposed to "make us think" by giving us plot mysteries - leaving so much unexplained about whys and what we are seeing - the general stupidity of the writing and almost Plan-9-From-Outer-Space level of character logic gives me very little confidence that the answers to these questions are going to be intelligent, satisfying or well reasoned themselves. It just doesn't invite me to wonder too hard what the mysteries are, given the laziness displayed all over the script.
Was it a fun romp here and there and beautiful to watch, with some nice atmosphere and a great performance by Fassbender? Yup. I want the Blu-Ray because of those elements.

And I want the extended cut to see if some of the other elements are clarified or at least discussed abit further. Even while watching in the theater, I could tell there were chunks missing. The version of PROMETHEUS we've seen thus far is a compromised (or at least trubcated) version of what may have been originally planned. As such, it was tailored to appeal to the summer, popcorn crowd who'd rather not think too much. I hope what we see later makes us look at this film in a new light. As it is, right now PROMETHEUS is the first interstellar movie to delve into what I'll call (for the sake of arguement) 2001-styled concepts (I'm leaving out MISSION TO MARS) since STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE...Another film many dislike, primarily because it was too slow (a la 2001) for the post-STAR WARS and Trekker groups. I don't want to have to wait 30 years for the next one.

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post #101 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

This lowering of the bar is so depressing. I guess there is enough of you out there that, well, we get what you are satisfied with from much of hollywood. Characters doing idiotic things? I don't care. No problem, since I've been fine with that so often in the past.
As it happens, though, characters doing dumb things, at least on the scale of Prometheus, is not somehow fated just because it's a movie. I watch movies almost every night and the vast majority of the time I am not slapped in the face by the idiocy on screen. This can be because the characters are acting believably in the situation, or sometimes because the film-making is deft enough to make it dramatically accepted and not a head-banging moment. I've worked on TV shows that have gone entire seasons with characters doing mostly believable things. The situations may not always be "real" per se, but the reactions of the characters - what someone would believably do in such a scenario - feel authentic. Whereas Prometheus in a mere two hours or so is filled with so many WFT moments per scene/ per character it's literally amazing. Especially for a movie from an intelligent director, aiming at intelligent themes, it's really exceptional
in that regard. So this "Ah...most movies are dumb anyway" routine from people who want to paint others as curmudgeons just doesn't wash.
There's another forum I'm on and people began discussing their reaction to Prometheus and over and over the same theme came out: the "scientists" acted so idiotically it became just impossible to empathize with them or believe what was going on. We know these people aren't really on another planet, but it at least helps SELL the idea if someone seems to act believably GIVEN the scenario.
Again...I enjoyed Prometheus. But nonetheless, much of the criticism hurled at the film strikes me as quite justifiable.
I LOVE the themes that occur in Prometheus. (I've been addicted to science and philosophy for decades, and hang out in forums devoted to such discussions). However, simply raising a deep issue is not terribly compelling if it isn't raised, and explored iintelligently. A stoner taking a puff of a spliff, looking up at the stars and declaring "Hey man...ever wonder...like..why we are all here?" may be raising a deep question...but in a facile way and you can treat deep questions in a dumb manner. The thing about the deep issues raised by Prometheus is that they don't seem to have been treated in a particularly deep or intelligent manner. They arise in a stew of events and actions on screen that over, and over seem poorly thought out that (the actions of the characters, the clumsiness of the "science" etc) that it undercuts (for me) the weight of the questions. And insofar as Prometheus is supposed to "make us think" by giving us plot mysteries - leaving so much unexplained about whys and what we are seeing - the general stupidity of the writing and almost Plan-9-From-Outer-Space level of character logic gives me very little confidence that the answers to these questions are going to be intelligent, satisfying or well reasoned themselves. It just doesn't invite me to wonder too hard what the mysteries are, given the laziness displayed all over the script.
Was it a fun romp here and there and beautiful to watch, with some nice atmosphere and a great performance by Fassbender? Yup. I want the Blu-Ray because of those elements.
For me the Engineer waking up scene was the moment that crystallized my disappointment with the crappy elements of the movie. The beginning of the movie sets up the Engineers as looking like intellectual almost god-like beings, clearly possessed of incredibly advanced knowledge, technology, and with mysterious plans. That underlying theme of how advanced, intelligent and mysterious the Engineers must be was at some level compelling as part of the mystery. What WERE they up to and what do they want of us? We finally get to see the first human interaction, an actual Engineer wakens in front of the remaining cast, stands majestically in front of them. At this point I hoped for some intelligence, something intellectually satisfying, some "meeting of minds" to see what these grand creatures are about. What choice instead was made by the film-makers " RAAAAWWWRRRR....smash, crush, rip, bang...chase.." It was that decision to turn what could have been a moment of intellectual satisfaction (which is one element of great sci-fi) and say "Let's have him just go berserk! Gotta get some action in!" As an audience member I was ready to give it the benefit of a doubt, but right then felt like I was treated as the lowest common denominator who would always demand a HULK SMASH rampage over anything more challenging. (Contrast that with for example Roy Batty in BladeRunner. Sure he provided some good action chasing around Deckard during the climax. But the pivotal element is that when Roy finally has Deckard...he doesn't kill him. But feels mercy, empathy for him, and he instead poetically talks of his own remorse about passing away. The pay off isn't "smash bang kill" - the pay off is the intelligence and complexity that emerges and surprises you. It takes determination and effort to come up with moments like these that make for deeper, lasting quality. It's the easy way out to just write smashem up action instead of complexity, which is pretty much the route they went in Prometheus with the silly rampage by the Engineer).
Prometheus has just so many of these "blown opportunity" for greatness moments it's really just too bad.
Rich, not for a second would I attempt to argue with you....because you are absolutely right.
Prometheus's premise was a blueprint for greatness; it really could have been a masterpiece...it was all there, just waiting to be written.frown.gif

I have an idea....why don't you and I and Josh Zyber pull an all-nighter and write the sequel?tongue.gif

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post #102 of 997 Old 07-11-2012, 08:42 PM
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As much as I think this would be an excellent disc to own I just can't bring myself to buy it. Maybe some day though.
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post #103 of 997 Old 07-12-2012, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

THANK YOU !!! Dallas in the vents "uhhh....uhhh". Chasing the cat (TWO characters!) Lambert: "I like gripeing." Kane sticking his face into the alien egg, etc, etc, etc.
So I don't even wanna hear it about any "dumb" characters in PROMETHEUS.

If you honestly believe that the character actions in Alien are anywhere near as unbelievable and stupid as those in Prometheus, then you obviously didn't understand anything about either movie, or anything about human behavior.

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post #104 of 997 Old 07-12-2012, 04:03 PM
 
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If you honestly believe that the character actions in Alien are anywhere near as unbelievable and stupid as those in Prometheus, then you obviously didn't understand anything about either movie, or anything about human behavior.

Everything can be picked apart with a fine tooth comb...

I think the point is the combs being used are different, especially because of the hype and hope.


Maybe it is me rationalizing stuff away, but my second viewing a lot of the same issue I hear everyone else freaking the F out about melted away. It was a much tighter movie on the second viewing, than the first where it was a wild ride and I missed quite a bit because my mind was racing to process everything and try to figure out how it connected with ALIEN.
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post #105 of 997 Old 07-12-2012, 11:37 PM
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If you honestly believe that the character actions in Alien are anywhere near as unbelievable and stupid as those in Prometheus, then you obviously didn't understand anything about either movie, or anything about human behavior.


I know enough about human behavior to know that, in such a life-or-death traumatic situation, having seen an alien kill a crewmate and burst out of his chest, even PETA members would say "The heck with the cat!"

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post #106 of 997 Old 07-12-2012, 11:52 PM
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It's clear that you feel passionately about the lost potential of this film. The bottom line however is that this is a mediocre film. The acting is flat and wooden. "Grand themes" are hinted at and go nowhere. Worst of all, it comes across as a hack, unimaginative remake of Alien. With an enormous budget largely spent on pretty holograms. Prometheus is to Alien what Phantom Menace was to Star Wars.
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This lowering of the bar is so depressing....
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The bottom line however is that this is a mediocre film. The acting is flat and wooden. "Grand themes" are hinted at and go nowhere. Worst of all, it comes across as a hack, unimaginative remake of Alien. With an enormous budget largely spent on pretty holograms. Prometheus is to Alien what Phantom Menace was to Star Wars.
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post #108 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It's clear that you feel passionately about the lost potential of this film. The bottom line however is that this is a mediocre film. The acting is flat and wooden. "Grand themes" are hinted at and go nowhere. Worst of all, it comes across as a hack, unimaginative remake of Alien. With an enormous budget largely spent on pretty holograms. Prometheus is to Alien what Phantom Menace was to Star Wars.

You missed the words:

"In my opinion"
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post #109 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 06:26 AM
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So you watched a blu-ray that isn't out yet? Or you saw it streaming via VOD which is not going to be comparable to what is seen at the theater and will pale in comparison to the blu-ray release. And of course, you could not have seen it in 3D for $6 - maybe a bargain matinee in 2D and not on an optimal screen or audio system.

I saw it at an AMC theater. All 2D showings before noon are only $6. The two theaters near me have 18 screens and 22 screens. But they only use a few of them for 3D. Since Prometheus had been out for several weeks, there was no way it would have still been shown in 3D since it is reserved for the newer movies. I would have preferred to see it in 3D but for $6 2D was fine. Before noon prices are $9/$10 for 3D and $12 for IMAX. Still much better than seeing the movies at night and paying 50% to 100% more.

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post #110 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 08:01 AM
 
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It's clear that you feel passionately about the lost potential of this film. The bottom line however is that this is a mediocre film. The acting is flat and wooden. "Grand themes" are hinted at and go nowhere. Worst of all, it comes across as a hack, unimaginative remake of Alien. With an enormous budget largely spent on pretty holograms. Prometheus is to Alien what Phantom Menace was to Star Wars.

hyperbolic much?
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post #111 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 09:06 AM
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Worst of all, it comes across as a hack, unimaginative remake of Alien. With an enormous budget largely spent on pretty holograms. Prometheus is to Alien what Phantom Menace was to Star Wars.

Yawn. Obviously you didn't get it, if you feel the movie is an "unimaginative remake of Alien."
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post #112 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 10:54 AM
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Worst of all, it comes across as a hack, unimaginative remake of Alien. With an enormous budget largely spent on pretty holograms. Prometheus is to Alien what Phantom Menace was to Star Wars.
Yawn. Obviously you didn't get it, if you feel the movie is an "unimaginative remake of Alien."
+1

It is a prequel.
The connections to Alien are everywhere.
However, it can stand alone too.

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post #113 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 10:54 AM
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Everything can be picked apart with a fine tooth comb...

You don't need a fine-toothed comb to pick apart Prometheus. You just need to pay attention to it.

This is just a variation on the old "turn off your brain" argument. I prefer to use my brain.
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I think the point is the combs being used are different, especially because of the hype and hope.

The hype and the hope are entirely generated by the movie itself. Prometheus is presented as a grand intellectual epic that tackles Big Ideas about The Meaning of Life, Who We Ae, Where We Came From, and what our purpose in the universe is. If you find it acceptable that this same movie actually turns out to be of the same intellectual quality as a Transformers sequel, that is your prerogative. Personally, I choose to have higher standards than that.

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post #114 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

You don't need a fine-toothed comb to pick apart Prometheus. You just need to pay attention to it.
This is just a variation on the old "turn off your brain" argument. I prefer to use my brain.
The hype and the hope are entirely generated by the movie itself. Prometheus is presented as a grand intellectual epic that tackles Big Ideas about The Meaning of Life, Who We Ae, Where We Came From, and what our purpose in the universe is. If you find it acceptable that this same movie actually turns out to be of the same intellectual quality as a Transformers sequel, that is your prerogative. Personally, I choose to have higher standards than that.

I am pretty sure you did not watch it, and you just scream at people in the internet about it.
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post #115 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 12:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

You don't need a fine-toothed comb to pick apart Prometheus. You just need to pay attention to it.
This is just a variation on the old "turn off your brain" argument. I prefer to use my brain.
The hype and the hope are entirely generated by the movie itself. Prometheus is presented as a grand intellectual epic that tackles Big Ideas about The Meaning of Life, Who We Ae, Where We Came From, and what our purpose in the universe is. If you find it acceptable that this same movie actually turns out to be of the same intellectual quality as a Transformers sequel, that is your prerogative. Personally, I choose to have higher standards than that.

You're really not using your brain if you viewed it once, made a snap decision, then picked up the worst arguments from message boards and repeat them verbatim. FYI.
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post #116 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

You're really not using your brain if you viewed it once, made a snap decision, then picked up the worst arguments from message boards and repeat them verbatim. FYI.


+1
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post #117 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

You missed the words:
"In my opinion"

You missed the word:
"Forum"

I don't feel special...
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post #118 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

You're really not using your brain if you viewed it once, made a snap decision, then picked up the worst arguments from message boards and repeat them verbatim. FYI.

Not true. It's quite possible to see the lazy and often illogical script moves in Prometheus on first viewing. Many have done so. I've seen it twice now and nothing from the second viewing solved the problems that have been pointed out quite accurately by many, on a number of message boards. (In fact, I mostly seemed to notice even MORE WTF moments in the movie on the second viewing!) I find much of Josh's criticisms accurate - they are drawn from his having seen the movie, not message boards. (And if you think the arguments about the poor logic of the script are "the worst" then perhaps you could explain why they are so bad, vs our taking your word for it).

Again...I enjoyed myself at the movie. But I find myself quite unconvinced by the attempts to deflect criticism from the movie and to often denigrate those who point out the problems that bothered them while watching it. Most attempts at making the script look logical are pretty poor IMO and all too often they fall back on some version of "stop thinking so much, why so critical? It's just a movie" which is an awful rejoinder for reasons pointed out many times before.

BTW, I agree the OP started this thread too early. There just isn't much to discuss about a Blu-Ray that isn't here, so naturally we tend to fall back into discussion about the film itself to fill time.
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post #119 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You missed the word:
"Forum"

Nope, in an open forum you can still represent opinion as fact, and this is such a time.
Hell even "I think" would have done at a pinch.
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post #120 of 997 Old 07-13-2012, 02:41 PM
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it's a flawed movie. it handle some material very well and completely drops the ball on others. to call it no better than a transformers sequel is disingenous.

it clearly tried to tackle some intriguing issues and heavy themes, but they get somewhat lost in all the nonsense that occurs in the film

bottom line, i expected a better thought out plot and was somewhat disappointed with the results.
but it surely wasn't garbage. it did succeed on some levels and the sequel has the potential to be a great movie.

neflixis our nemesis
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