Patton and Von Ryan's Express - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 76 Old 11-06-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BIG ED View Post

CEI is actually pretty happy w/3D sales; even tho I'm not!
[altho too many 3D set owners don't know they have 3D/just like when new HD set owners didn't know they only had SD sources hooked up]
The prob is & has always been the STUPID margins CE is working (not working actually) on.
Pioneer NEVER made $$$ sell KURO's!!!
Each & every set was sold at a loss; how do you do that?!?!
(yep, KURO added prestige too the line/butt really, not even break even, a loss???)
So CEI are selling sets, at good #'s, just at almost no profit.
Sammy said the heck w/it & are charging a bit more & making $$$.
[disclaimer: I'm a Sammy owner]
http://www.bizcommunity.com/Article/196/574/84713.html
Sooooo, the-moral-of-the-story-is, if your incredibly stupid and sell below cost you'll loss $$$!
Really!!

The problem is pricing. Pioneer sold the sets at a loss because that is the price the market dictated. Sharp will most likely go backrupt this year, and I would not be surprised to see Sony and Panasonic make major changes to their HDTV lineup. Sony may give up trying to sell them completely.
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post #62 of 76 Old 11-06-2012, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Being as successful as 3D would be enough for the serious collector, after all we would not get every title that is on Blu-Ray in 4k but just the cream of the crop. I expect the ratio to be similar to what we see today with titles out on Blu-Ray vs titles out on DVD.
There will always be nitpicking and I do not see a problem with this, there will be enough people who will buy 4k just because it is the latest and greatest and that is fine with me.
I am a glass half full guy with regard to 4k, I have seen what it can do and peoples reaction to it and I am convinced there is a market for it, in the long run it will come anyway and the interesting question for me is rather if we can have it sooner.

Well I would welcome 4K, but I just don't believe it will have the market that LD, for instance, had back in the day at such premium prices. Because the only way I see 4K being worth it for the CE's and retailers is if they had big profit margins for such small sales. This is the biggest issue that Blu-Ray faced coming to market. They sit on the same shelves as DVD's and are competing directly with that product on pricing. Even collectors may have hard time coughing up $100-200 for a movie in 4K that sells for $20 or less on Blu-Ray. On top of that you have most brick and mortar retailers cutting back on their packaged media (CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, video games) selection and I am not sure how gung-ho they would be to dedicate shelf space to another home video format unless it was highly profitable. I doubt most studios were happy with the price declines they saw on Blu-Ray hardware and movies, but the market has dramatically changed. Just look at the DEG data since 2006. Steep declines for home video and there has been a massive shift away from buying and collecting to cheap rentals. I just don't see 4K revitalizing home video sales, and the CE's and studios would be looking at big investments in yet another format in a declining marketplace.

We will find out soon I suspect. I would love a 4K format that cost only marginally more than Blu-Ray, I just don't expect to see it.
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post #63 of 76 Old 11-06-2012, 10:09 AM
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Almost pulled the trigger on remastered Patton... Waiting for $10 and under smile.gif
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post #64 of 76 Old 11-06-2012, 11:08 AM
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Just a couple of more weeks to Black Friday sales on Amazon, etc.

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post #65 of 76 Old 11-07-2012, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

The problem is pricing. Pioneer sold the sets at a loss because that is the price the market dictated. Sharp will most likely go backrupt this year, and I would not be surprised to see Sony and Panasonic make major changes to their HDTV lineup. Sony may give up trying to sell them completely.
Prove the market would not support KURO at "higher" pricing!
You can't.
Because Pioneer never did it [Pio was only interested in #'s].
It doesn't matter what the price is if there is NO profit!
Price is secondary too profit.

Now of course one can price one's self out of any market.
Just if that's the case... don't release the dammed product!

You may not know bout companies like "Audio Alchemy".
The marketing department dictated the features/performance & set the price.
'AA' wasn't on the level of KURO [i.e. best blacks].
However, they were a best value product line (no one could touch 'em in entry level specialty audio/as well as video).
[just about everything they released was a "Stereophile Recommended Component" as well as a best buy no less]
Just they lost $$$ on everything 'AA' sold cause no margin was built in.
R&D made what marketing asked for (and did it quite well) w/o any regard for cost.

No way too run a business.
Funny thing was the "AA" guy had done it B4 & did it after "AA" crashed and burned as well!!! eek.gif
It was fun while it lasted for us audiophiles tho (great stuff cheap)! tongue.gif

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post #66 of 76 Old 11-08-2012, 03:06 PM
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Does the newer-version packaging look any different than the older version? I don't want to go out and purchase another copy of the original while believing I'm buying the newest version.
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post #67 of 76 Old 11-08-2012, 03:44 PM
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Same image of G.C. Scott, but the new version has him in color, centered over a U.S. flag vs. B&W, right side over a white background.
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post #68 of 76 Old 11-08-2012, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N.B. Forrest View Post

Does the newer-version packaging look any different than the older version? I don't want to go out and purchase another copy of the original while believing I'm buying the newest version.

Yes. Different packaging and higher price. You can easily tell one from the other just by looking at the back.
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post #69 of 76 Old 11-09-2012, 03:52 PM
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Thanx, folks!

Now I'm just wondering how much in trade credit my local dvd store will offer when I bring in the older version.
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post #70 of 76 Old 11-11-2012, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

Gotcha, now that I'm looking at it I can see extraordinarily minor halo'ing in areas like where the sleeve of his saluting arm contrasts against the red stripe of the flag. That being said, it is so miniscule that scrutinizing it becomes an absurd triviality. I'm normally way too anal about these sorts of things (I did more than my fair share of bitching about the original release, which was insane in its DNR overuse) but something like that is so minor it simply would not be evident in playback. Overall, it's such a vast improvement, in every respect, over the previous release that in my opinion it deserves applause rather than any degree of condemnation. There was no financial reason for Fox to go back and give this release the treatment they have given it but I think it's pretty clear they have not only for A/V nuts like us but also for posterity. Our potential double-dips are a drop in the bucket when it comes to their bottom line. No one outside of the A/V niche will appreciate this effort so I think it’s important for us to praise it. Honestly, based on everything I’ve seen it looks fantastic.... not just relative to the previous [lackluster] release but fantastic on its own merit.
I bought the original and was hugely disappointed, it was so overly DNR’ed and waxy it bordered on comical. After hearing it was being given a new transfer minus the insane DNR I preordered it and I’ll have it in the next few days, and based on what I’ve seen so far I’m glad I did. This could’ve easily been a simple re-package “X-anniversary cool stuff!!” edition.

I have a weird sensitivity for whatever reason to EE, most people probably would not notice it. Yet dnr I am less sensitive where most people are more sensitive. If their is light dnr in a film usually until someone points it out I cant notice it. If its minor, if its heavy like patton then I would have to be blind to miss it.

The new one does look much better, I could have just donte without the minor EE and not sure what the need was for it, but this is avs forums and we are looking at caps here. Nobody is scrutinizing the transfer especially without having seen it, but I am going to give an unbiased opinion if i see something in the caps.

With that said, once again from the caps it does look much better and will be a very nice replacement.
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post #71 of 76 Old 11-11-2012, 07:54 PM
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Your "weird sensitivity" too EE is normal... for you!
Just like my "EDweird" heighten sense of EE (as well as w/DNR) is normal for me.

Where is the info on when this scan was done?
What are the differences between the two (color?!?!) besides less DNR??
Maybe its an old scan [hence the 'residual' EE]???

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post #72 of 76 Old 11-11-2012, 08:03 PM
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Its a new scan: different framing, higher resolution.
I'm guessing that like the other Fox 70mm films and Baraka (I think Its a Mad Mad Mad Mad World got the same treatment also), Fotokem scanned a a 65mm IP at 8K.
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post #73 of 76 Old 11-12-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Its a new scan: different framing, higher resolution.
I'm guessing that like the other Fox 70mm films and Baraka (I think Its a Mad Mad Mad Mad World got the same treatment also), Fotokem scanned a a 65mm IP at 8K.
Diff framing?!?!
HDD has both the old & the new at 2.20:1.
Which one is zoomed in then?
Higher Rez??
Both are 1080p.
Do you mean a higher scan rate (i.e. 2K too 4K/in this case 8K)???

How bout color?

BIGthanks.

EDitEDbyED:
Wasn't "Baraka" all so 8K w/ringing?
What's up w/8K & ringing??
Or, is it a prob w/70mm scans???
EE on a re-releases????

"I wonder if any of the releases had slipcovers though."
"Are these comfirmed to have slipcovers?"
"They look nice in those slips."
"This slipcover looks too good to pass up."
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post #74 of 76 Old 11-14-2012, 09:42 AM
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I watched the new Patton this week. Patton. It still has considerable DNR in what used to be the grainiest scenes in the film. They decided to give it an even look from end to end and were successful. I would of left more grain and that wee bit more detail that could of been.

I'd never seen Von Ryan's Express on any home video format. I thought it looked purr-dy good. My daddy took me to it and we watched it on network TV a few years later. I don't think I'd seen it since....

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post #75 of 76 Old 11-14-2012, 11:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rachael Bellomy View Post

I watched the new Patton this week. Patton. It still has considerable DNR in what used to be the grainiest scenes in the film. They decided to give it an even look from end to end and were successful. I would of left more grain and that wee bit more detail that could of been.
I'd never seen Von Ryan's Express on any home video format. I thought it looked purr-dy good. My daddy took me to it and we watched it on network TV a few years later. I don't think I'd seen it since....

Well, if you think Von Ryan's is "purdy" good, then I think we can discount your other thoughts on Patton because Von Ryan's is a horrible thing - faded color and nothing like it should be. As to Patton, what "grainiest" scenes are you talking about. 65mm has the finest of grain - that was the point of shooting in that format - and there were never any "grainiest" scenes in the film unless you're commenting on older transfers on home video that weren't even taken from the large format elements. There is no excessive DNR anywhere in this transfer.
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post #76 of 76 Old 11-15-2012, 05:55 AM
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I saw PATTON in 70mm last year. There were no 'grainy' scene as we think of them. The grain throughout was very very fine indeed. Some scenes has slightly elevated levels, but still finer than you'd see in 35mm.

The only reason I ever paid attention to that was due to the Blu-Ray abomination being fresh in my mind.

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