NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

We'll consider that additional added value .. wink.gif


It isn't some exotic party residue were I can scrape off and sell it street value, it's plain old negligence along with dirty oily fingers! tongue.gif

Want to hear a B flick Sci Fi horror movie plot " using rental disc as catalyst to infect HT enthusiast population with some virus making them accessing all movies via streaming method in the most mediocre way possible. biggrin.gif

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post #302 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

It isn't some exotic party residue were I can scrape off and sell it street value, it's plain old negligence along with dirty oily fingers! tongue.gif
Want to hear a B flick Sci Fi horror movie plot " using rental disc as catalyst to infect HT enthusiast population with some virus making them accessing all movies via streaming method in the most mediocre way possible. biggrin.gif
Djoel

One of the reasons back in the day that we'd hit the B&M video store every Tuesday was first rental on a disk .. it seemed to me that the longer a disk was up for rental, the worse it got .. eventually, one of the local B&M's got a cleaning / polishing machine that would work wonders ..

It's rare anymore that I get a scummy BD from NF or RB, but I don't tend to rent catalog titles older than a few months and that may be why ..

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post #303 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mcnabney View Post

I rent BDs frequently. Perhaps next time I see DD or DTS light up on my receiver while playing a BluRay I will call-up Redbox and request my money back for distributing a BluRay movie that does not meet BluRay specifications.

What should your receiver display instead of DD or DTS when playing a BluRay? I'm ignorant on this stuff. Thanks for any help.
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post #304 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

One of the reasons back in the day that we'd hit the B&M video store every Tuesday was first rental on a disk .. it seemed to me that the longer a disk was up for rental, the worse it got .. eventually, one of the local B&M's got a cleaning / polishing machine that would work wonders ..

Yeah that was the thing to do when there were Block Buster every 5 block in NYC, not any more thou.
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It's rare anymore that I get a scummy BD from NF or RB, but I don't tend to rent catalog titles older than a few months and that may be why ..

You're very fortune, as get them scratch all the time, and I hate to just return them as I lose interest in the movie after a few days turn a round.


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post #305 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 11:33 AM
 
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What should your receiver display instead of DD or DTS when playing a BluRay? I'm ignorant on this stuff. Thanks for any help.
So is the person you're asking for help...
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post #306 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 12:18 PM
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So is the person you're asking for help...

Yes, I thought that DTS was the lossless top quality sound. Yes/No?
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post #307 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by easycruise View Post

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Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

So is the person you're asking for help...

Yes, I thought that DTS was the lossless top quality sound. Yes/No?

Try reading this http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/articles/464956.html

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post #308 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by easycruise View Post

What should your receiver display instead of DD or DTS when playing a BluRay? I'm ignorant on this stuff. Thanks for any help.

It should display DTS Master HD Audio or Dolby TrueHD, depending which system is used on that disc.

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post #309 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Linear PCM (LPCM) - up to 8 channels of uncompressed audio. (mandatory)
Dolby Digital (DD) - format used for DVDs, 5.1-channel surround sound. (mandatory)
Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) - extension of Dolby Digital, 7.1-channel surround sound. (optional)
Dolby TrueHD - lossless encoding of up to 8 channels of audio. (optional)
DTS Digital Surround - format used for DVDs, 5.1-channel surround sound. (mandatory)
DTS-HD High Resolution Audio - extension of DTS, 7.1-channel surround sound. (optional)
DTS-HD Master Audio - lossless encoding of up to 8 channels of audio. (optional)

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_audio_codecs

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post #310 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

If it's that important to you, you'd buy it. When you go to the movie theater, do you demand a lower ticket price because you're only going to watch it once? I buy all my BD movies for quite a few reasons, and believe we should have perks over someone that just rents. I don't go to movie theaters so I look at the price of a BD as 2 tickets to a movie theater. Seems fair to me.

weak argument. you do have a perk...which is the same perk it has always been, you can watch it as many times as you want and whenever you want.

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post #311 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by easycruise View Post

What should your receiver display instead of DD or DTS when playing a BluRay? I'm ignorant on this stuff. Thanks for any help.

It really depends on what is on the disk and what component is doing the decoding (and then what formats that component supports).

What you want on the disk is either lossless audio or audio compressed in a way that is indisguishable to you on your system. Then you want to make sure your system is playing that back.

Spend some time researching that and you will soon find out why most people don't have a clue. Too darn complicated and most just don't care.
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post #312 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by stepyourgameup View Post

Wrong. Buying movies is a big waste of money and you shouldn't have any perks over someone who is smart enough to rent.

Ah, but it looks like we WILL have more perks than we already do. Enjoy your crappy sound.
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post #313 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 07:27 PM
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Huh? If I know that theater has a crappy setup, I simply not going there. Period.

I think I may have put 2 thoughts too close to each other when I wrote my post. What I was referring to was the comment that was made, "A BD is not worth buying if you are only going to watch it once." And to that I replied, when you go to a movie theater, you pay for 2 tickets (maybe more) at the tone of $20+ and only watch it once. So why do you need to watch a BD MORE than once for it to be worth its $20 price tag? Hell, it's even a better deal than at the theaters because your whole family can enjoy the movie for only $20.
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I get charged extra for BD rental and get delivered half of the goods. I don't care about any of the extras but expect the disc come with both HD video and audio. I guess your logic demands us renters only get 720p video as well ?

I'd bust you down to not even giving you the option to rent BD's. :P
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post #314 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 07:29 PM
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weak argument. you do have a perk...which is the same perk it has always been, you can watch it as many times as you want and whenever you want.

It's not an argument, It's pretty much going to be a reality. smile.gif
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post #315 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 08:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

I think I may have put 2 thoughts too close to each other when I wrote my post. What I was referring to was the comment that was made, "A BD is not worth buying if you are only going to watch it once." And to that I replied, when you go to a movie theater, you pay for 2 tickets (maybe more) at the tone of $20+ and only watch it once. So why do you need to watch a BD MORE than once for it to be worth its $20 price tag? Hell, it's even a better deal than at the theaters because your whole family can enjoy the movie for only $20.

Your logic has a huge hole in it - that I don't have to buy a BD of a movie, I can rent one for $2 or less.
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I'd bust you down to not even giving you the option to rent BD's. :P

Never heard of the First Sale Doctrine have you?
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post #316 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 09:34 PM
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Your logic has a huge hole in it - that I don't have to buy a BD of a movie, I can rent one for $2 or less.
Never heard of the First Sale Doctrine have you?
That only applies if you buy retail.

If you buy directly from the studios like Netflix does, they can put all kinds of restrictions on what they can do with it and what features it will include.


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post #317 of 992 Old 10-02-2012, 11:38 PM
 
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That only applies if you buy retail.
If you buy directly from the studios like Netflix does, they can put all kinds of restrictions on what they can do with it and what features it will include.

Sure - so far - no special features and no HD Audio . . . BFD. rolleyes.gif
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post #318 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 10:36 AM
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For me, it doesn't matter anymore. No HD audio on the disk, no point in renting. If I give up the best quality audio that BR has to offer, there's no point in me driving to the RedBox to get a movie.

If I sacrifice the audio, I might as well get a crappy stream from Netflix. Then I save on gas and headache of being surprised by an inferior product. At least with streaming I know it's going to be a crappy product.

The studios should just go whole-hog and introduce a "Rental version" watermark in the corner (Like an ABC or Fox logo on TV movies) and drop the video presentation to 720. Then all the guys here could continue their "If you want better quality, go buy it." diatribe, and continue to push their ridiculous arguments.

If you want real chicken, you should buy it from the grocery store. You need to expect sawdust fillers and Grade D chicken from Wendy's. (?????)
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post #319 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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My main motivation for BD is the PQ .. DVD at 110" is pretty poor even upscaled ..

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post #320 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 10:53 AM
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For me, it doesn't matter anymore. No HD audio on the disk, no point in renting. If I give up the best quality audio that BR has to offer, there's no point in me driving to the RedBox to get a movie.
If I sacrifice the audio, I might as well get a crappy stream from Netflix. Then I save on gas and headache of being surprised by an inferior product. At least with streaming I know it's going to be a crappy product.
The studios should just go whole-hog and introduce a "Rental version" watermark in the corner (Like an ABC or Fox logo on TV movies) and drop the video presentation to 720. Then all the guys here could continue their "If you want better quality, go buy it." diatribe, and continue to push their ridiculous arguments.
If you want real chicken, you should buy it from the grocery store. You need to expect sawdust fillers and Grade D chicken from Wendy's. (?????)
So, what do you do? Buy it? Don't you think that's exactly what the studio wants you to do?

The rest of you arguements are pretty irrational. Unlike with special features that most people don't watch and lossless audio that most people can't reproduce or hear properly at home, the things you mention would be very noticeable to a much greater number of people. You'd definitely get people in a tizzy over that stuff.

Having said that, it surprizes me the studios don't use cap codes on rental copies to track if pirates are using them - and, if so, from which rental company they're coming from. They probably don't since it would likely prove the pirates often aren't suing disc media to pirate content. Most of it is out there long before the disc hits the streets.


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post #321 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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If you want real chicken, you should buy it from the grocery store. You need to expect sawdust fillers and Grade D chicken from Wendy's. (?????)

I stll like the analogy I used earlier in the thread

If Jack Daniels made a cheaper whiskey out of filtered tap water, only offering it at low end discount package stores, and no one could actually taste the difference ..

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post #322 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Veeper View Post

For me, it doesn't matter anymore. No HD audio on the disk, no point in renting. If I give up the best quality audio that BR has to offer, there's no point in me driving to the RedBox to get a movie.
If I sacrifice the audio, I might as well get a crappy stream from Netflix. Then I save on gas and headache of being surprised by an inferior product. At least with streaming I know it's going to be a crappy product.
The studios should just go whole-hog and introduce a "Rental version" watermark in the corner (Like an ABC or Fox logo on TV movies) and drop the video presentation to 720. Then all the guys here could continue their "If you want better quality, go buy it." diatribe, and continue to push their ridiculous arguments.
If you want real chicken, you should buy it from the grocery store. You need to expect sawdust fillers and Grade D chicken from Wendy's. (?????)

So what about all those Blu-Ray discs that don't contain lossless track whether you buy it or rent it? Again lossless is not a mandatory spec and there are tons of Blu-Ray releases that are lossy only. There are lots of them and many of them are good movies. So you just don't watch them?

And please. There is a huge difference between Netflix streaming and Blu-Ray even if the Blu-Ray is just a 5.1 DD or DTS track. Picture quality is usually night and day different, and I find many Netflix and Amazon streams unwatchable on my 125" screen. Most of the Netflix content is not in HD, and much of it is not even a 5.1 track, and if it is, it is a much lower bitrate. Their "HD" is also a much lower bitrate and is not 1080p. Most people just don't complain about Netflix streaming because it is so cheap.

I find it ironic that you give Netflix streaming a free pass in the audio and picture quality department because you expect it to be poor. I assume because you feel it is a cheap and inferior product, but again,. look at the cost of Redbox. $1.50 per day for a Blu-Ray release... Sorry, but that is pretty dang cheap when you consider what it used to cost to rent a VHS or DVD from the brick and mortar rental stores. You are essentially paying a lot less for much better quality. If Redbox offered $5 per day Blu-Ray discs that had lossless audio, 1080p, extras, etc would you rent it vs the one that had lossy audio and no extras and cost $1.50 per day?
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post #323 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 01:24 PM
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And please. There is a huge difference between Netflix streaming and Blu-Ray even if the Blu-Ray is just a 5.1 DD or DTS track. Picture quality is usually night and day different, and I find many Netflix and Amazon streams unwatchable on my 125" screen. Most of the Netflix content is not in HD, and much of it is not even a 5.1 track, and if it is, it is a much lower bitrate. Their "HD" is also a much lower bitrate and is not 1080p. Most people just don't complain about Netflix streaming because it is so cheap.

This is irrelevant. What you think is night and day difference might not be to someone else. My parents might think that netflix is good enough. Or they might try to convince me that they get HD programming on the DVD's they rent. "Oh it looks so good."

Once you fragment the source like the "rental" blurays, you do the entire industry, including the customers, a disservice.

It's insulting and passive aggression in business strategy.

Again, if they were serious about this being an issue worth throwing money at, they would just watermark the video with "RedBox Rental" or something. Then everyone would know where it came from and I certainly wouldn't be as upset. I can expect the same watermark when ABC or AMC shows a movie.

The idea that they can remove content or features because of the market or outlet and that you all are willing to go along with it because "it doesn't effect you" is probably more insulting to me as an AV enthusiast. Heck you can see how your argument breaks down when you start replacing the audio portion with video.

The whiskey analogy is a decent one. If I had someone come to my house and say "I love Jack Daniels!" and then realize that they were getting fed a bunch of toilet-swill from their local liquor store, I'd be ticked about that too. I'd be even more ticked if that was the closest store to me, and the people at Jack Daniels and a Whiskey forum tried to tell me that it was good enough for my needs.

Insulted I tell you.
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post #324 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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You'd be surprised to discover just how much low grade whiskey gets funneled into Jack bottles at bars / casinos / lounges ..

And it passes ..

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post #325 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 01:39 PM
 
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Once you fragment the source like the "rental" blurays, you do the entire industry, including the customers, a disservice.

It's insulting and passive aggression in business strategy.

There is no disservice as you claim, nor is it insulting. It is a method for Lionsgate to get people to buy their product instead of renting it. Your reaction is just one more from someone who thinks entitlement is SOP. Welcome to the real world.
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post #326 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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This is irrelevant. What you think is night and day difference might not be to someone else. My parents might think that netflix is good enough. Or they might try to convince me that they get HD programming on the DVD's they rent. "Oh it looks so good."
Once you fragment the source like the "rental" blurays, you do the entire industry, including the customers, a disservice.
It's insulting and passive aggression in business strategy.
Again, if they were serious about this being an issue worth throwing money at, they would just watermark the video with "RedBox Rental" or something. Then everyone would know where it came from and I certainly wouldn't be as upset. I can expect the same watermark when ABC or AMC shows a movie.
The idea that they can remove content or features because of the market or outlet and that you all are willing to go along with it because "it doesn't effect you" is probably more insulting to me as an AV enthusiast. Heck you can see how your argument breaks down when you start replacing the audio portion with video.

If anyone will watermark / add those little logos / bugs on disk playback .. it will be the studios .. and who knows, that might be next .. don't give them any ideas ..

I'm not really insulted .. let's face it, cans of coffee have gotten smaller, toilet paper has gotten narrower .. etc etc .. Proctor and Gamble are not issuing statements to announce these type of things .. and they are all designed to maximize profit and shareholder value .. consumers take it in the chin constantly .. BD with DD instead of HD Audio is a minor blip on the radar ..

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post #327 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 01:54 PM
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This is irrelevant. What you think is night and day difference might not be to someone else. My parents might think that netflix is good enough. Or they might try to convince me that they get HD programming on the DVD's they rent. "Oh it looks so good."

Well that's true but for many people (video quality) it is still noticeable. Someone with a 50" 1080p plasma playing the audio through their TV speaekers may not be able to distinguish between a lossy Netflix movie being streamed vs a Blu-Ray movie but in the end they PQ will be noticeable. For folks like me that have a 125" screen, the difference really is night and day. Even my wife will complain if I try to stream an SVOD movie from Netflix in our theater room.
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Once you fragment the source like the "rental" blurays, you do the entire industry, including the customers, a disservice.
It's insulting and passive aggression in business strategy.

Again you have to understand why they are doing it. You and I may not agree with why they are doing this, but the fact remains that home video revenue is down billions (with a b) over the last 4-5 years and the cost to make and market movies continues to go up. Many movies simply do not make enough money at the box office to even break even for the studios and the studios had been relying on home video revenue to break even and make profits. This is why studios are so defensive when it comes to Redbox and Netflix. Because their bottomline is being affected by cheap rentals. You and I may not like it, or agree with their approach, but this is why they keep messing with things like extras, delay windows, audio codecs, etc. Like I said before, I think this is a stupid move (eliminating the lossless track) since very few people will notice or care, and those that do will be in such an extreme minority that it will have little to no effect on the studios making more money by forcing people to buy vs rent. There are so many movies that I will watch only once that, lossless or not, I am not going to buy it.
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Again, if they were serious about this being an issue worth throwing money at, they would just watermark the video with "RedBox Rental" or something. Then everyone would know where it came from and I certainly wouldn't be as upset. I can expect the same watermark when ABC or AMC shows a movie.
The idea that they can remove content or features because of the market or outlet and that you all are willing to go along with it because "it doesn't effect you" is probably more insulting to me as an AV enthusiast. Heck you can see how your argument breaks down when you start replacing the audio portion with video.
The whiskey analogy is a decent one. If I had someone come to my house and say "I love Jack Daniels!" and then realize that they were getting fed a bunch of toilet-swill from their local liquor store, I'd be ticked about that too. I'd be even more ticked if that was the closest store to me, and the people at Jack Daniels and a Whiskey forum tried to tell me that it was good enough for my needs.
Insulted I tell you.

First of all your example is extreme to say the least. Again you are paying $1.20-1.50 per day for something (with worse quality) that used to cost a lot more at brick and mortar rental stores. And how is this new? Studios have been doing things like stripping extra features and adding things like additional previews and even advertisements to rental copies for years. Face it, Redbox and Netflix are cheap. The majority of us are paying less than we did for even VHS rentals from 20 years ago and that is not even accounting for inflation.

Don't like it then don't give Redbox your money. And honestly, I am not sure people should even be upset with Redbox. The studio is the root cause of this issue, not Redbox.
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post #328 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

You'd be surprised to discover just how much low grade whiskey gets funneled into Jack bottles at bars / casinos / lounges ..
And it passes ..

LOL, and you are paying a huge premium in those bars and lounges most of the time..

At least with Redbox and Netflix you are getting your money's worth. Lossy track or not.. My parents never had it this good smile.gif I remember my dad always complaining about those rewind fees with VHS rentals...
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post #329 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

If anyone will watermark / add those little logos / bugs on disk playback .. it will be the studios .. and who knows, that might be next .. don't give them any ideas ..
I'm not really insulted .. let's face it, cans of coffee have gotten smaller, toilet paper has gotten narrower .. etc etc .. Proctor and Gamble are not issuing statements to announce these type of things .. and they are all designed to maximize profit and shareholder value .. consumers take it in the chin constantly .. BD with DD instead of HD Audio is a minor blip on the radar ..

Yeah... As much as I love audio I would be more pissed about a watermark...

Even worse.. Those pop up ads like many network and cable shows do now to advertise a new show or new episode.. Can you imagine watching "The Hunger Games" with a watermark on the left side of the screen and then a minature Jennifer Lawrence walking across the bottom of the screen promoting Hunger Games 2 at the theater in 3D????

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post #330 of 992 Old 10-03-2012, 02:17 PM
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We are not discussing purchases. We are discussing rentals. That's what the topic is of this thread. This action by Lionsgate is just the lastest one in the war between the studios and consumers in the studios effort to try to force consumers into buying instead of renting.
First it was 28 day embargos. Then it was no special features. Then a 56 day embargo. Now it's no HD audio on BD rentals. But here's the point I am making. The first 3 affect the entire market. The last one only affects Videophiles because it is only Videophiles who have HD audio setups.
So why are studios escalating this war? Because OD sales keep dropping in double digits each year.
The studios have offerred a lot of incentives to consumers to get them to buy BDs. They offer Combo packs. They offer 3D. They offer UltraViolet. But it isn't working. They are not getting the results they want.
And once again, I pose the question . . . what's next? Because IMO, there is going to be a "next." It's just a question of which will it affect . . . a micro market or the entire market?.

Getting rid of combo packs and getting rid of UltraViolet would be a start. Maybe I'd buy more if they got rid of that stuff, and let me buy just the BD at a lower price. Instead they force you into buying a 4-disc combo pack. It's easy enough to put those other products in there, at a nickel a pressing, and use it to justify a much higher price, as if you're getting more value for your money, but what the hell am I going to do with a DVD! Not expressing my ire at you Lee, it's at the studios.

Enjoying BF4 on the PS4, bugs and all.
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