NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1005 Old 01-05-2013, 11:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Commercial failure, flop, whatever, it was a decent movie and it received a nomination and a few awards. My intent was not to argue semantics with you.
It's like we're speaking different languages here. I never said anything about the quality of the movie. Not once. I wasn't putting it down, only pointing out the obvious - that the movie is small potatoes for Lionsgate compared to the bigger releases I mentioned. It is what it is - a low budget movie that didn't do much business. That doesn't make it a bad movie, or prevent it from being a terrific movie, it just means there's little interest from the general movie-going audience, especially compared to movies like The Expendables 2 or The Hunger Games.

That, in my opinion, is why they didn't bother to press a special version of Arbitrage for the rental version. Again, not a slight against the movie, just a realistic observation.

It's a shame I had to spell out my position more than once, simply because you failed to comprehend what was posted.
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post #632 of 1005 Old 01-05-2013, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BartMan01 View Post

Somehow I don't think the people lining up to buy the scratched up and abused ex-rentals really care if they are missing the full HD soundtrack. I still don't see how this is going to do ANYTHING measurable except annoy people like us.

+1

We here on these forums make up a very small population of the overall blu ray buying public. I will go out on a limb and say that if you asked 100 average Joe's who actually rent blu ray movies regularly (notice I didn't say 100 people on this forum), less than 5 would even be able to tell you that they know a thing about hd audio, let alone care whether or not it is on their rental copy. I am amazed that lionsgate takes the the time/resources to press separately encoded disks like this. I mean, it literally only annoys us and must have next to no effect on any of the economics involved in the big sales picture. I also don't think it has any effect on peoples likelihood of buying a previously rented blu ray. Don't get me wrong, its the only reason I could think of why lionsgate would do this, I just don't think its going to work at all and I am surprised they don't have the foresight to see that. Its also why I am not particularly concerned that it will spread to other studios' gameplan.
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post #633 of 1005 Old 01-06-2013, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

It's like we're speaking different languages here. I never said anything about the quality of the movie. Not once. I wasn't putting it down, only pointing out the obvious - that the movie is small potatoes for Lionsgate compared to the bigger releases I mentioned. It is what it is - a low budget movie that didn't do much business. That doesn't make it a bad movie, or prevent it from being a terrific movie, it just means there's little interest from the general movie-going audience, especially compared to movies like The Expendables 2 or The Hunger Games.
That, in my opinion, is why they didn't bother to press a special version of Arbitrage for the rental version. Again, not a slight against the movie, just a realistic observation.
It's a shame I had to spell out my position more than once, simply because you failed to comprehend what was posted.

I understood your point. However, your definition of 'flop' is obviously different then mine. There was no reason to continue to argue.


From Wikipedia
Quote:
As of November 5, 2012, the film had grossed over $31,000,000 in first-cycle sales to date (with $21,000,000 in ticket sales at the global box office, and a VOD North American gross over $10 million). The film also outperformed financially in several areas: it set a record as the highest grossing "day-and-date" release of all time, meaning it outperformed all other films released simultaneously in theaters and "on-demand." It also opened to a per screen average in the US in excess of $10,000, making it one of the highest per-screen average films of the year. It was the top film in Israel two weeks running and #3 in Spain two weeks running, nearing a Spanish theatrical gross of nearly $4,500,000 USD. It broke independent box office records in many other countries including Australia, the UAE, and Switzerland.

Also See:

http://themovieblog.com/2012/arbitrage-richard-geres-comeback-and-box-office-success-beyond-vod/


Not bad for an indie flick.


Now I'm done. See ya.


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post #634 of 1005 Old 01-07-2013, 06:24 PM
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"What's an Applebee's?"

With a budget of around $10 million or less (and next to no money spent for advertising), the film is probably already in the profit zone. Good film (and it was REAL film) and would find a place on my shelf before EXPENDABLES or HUNGER GAMES ever will. Hope that others give it a shot.

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post #635 of 1005 Old 01-08-2013, 07:03 AM
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So I rented Dredd this morning and was surprised to not only find a DTS-HD MA soundtrack on a Lionsgate (I was expecting Dolby Digital) rental but also 3D. It appears Redbox now is renting 3D Blu-rays.

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post #636 of 1005 Old 01-08-2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by PDB View Post

So I rented Dredd this morning and was surprised to not only find a DTS-HD MA soundtrack on a Lionsgate (I was expecting Dolby Digital) rental but also 3D. It appears Redbox now is renting 3D Blu-rays.

That is good news, but considering this is the ONLY version available as far as this disc goes, I think that is why you got both the 3d and DTS-HD MA on the rental. I doubt Redbox will now start renting 3d blu rays, but would love to be wrong!

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post #637 of 1005 Old 01-08-2013, 11:05 AM
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Very true but they went so far to put it on the website that it was 3D which is something they didn't have to do. It was also nice to see that Lionsgate didn't make a rental version for once.
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post #638 of 1005 Old 01-08-2013, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PDB View Post

Very true but they went so far to put it on the website that it was 3D which is something they didn't have to do. It was also nice to see that Lionsgate didn't make a rental version for once.

No doubt! I hate getting a new Lionsgate film from RB or Netflix and only having lossy audio! mad.gif

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post #639 of 1005 Old 01-08-2013, 12:13 PM
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in a blind a/b test, i bet none of us could really tell the difference between lossy and hd audio. but still, psychologically, its nice to have it there. props to lionsgate for leaving the hd audio track intact.
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post #640 of 1005 Old 01-08-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Ou8thisSN View Post

in a blind a/b test, i bet none of us could really tell the difference between lossy and hd audio.

It depends on the film. I have a BD copy of Pirates Of The Caribbean Words End which has a pretty dynamic audio track. On the older Disney BD's, to receive lossless audio you need to choose PCM from the menu, or it defaults to lossy DD. I spent some time switching between the two tracks and you can hear a dramatic difference especially with the action scenes. However, it may also have to do with possible changes in the sound mix, rather then just the compression scheme.



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post #641 of 1005 Old 01-08-2013, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

It depends on the film. I have a BD copy of Pirates Of The Caribbean Words End which has a pretty dynamic audio track. On the older Disney BD's, to receive lossless audio you need to choose PCM from the menu, or it defaults to lossy DD. I spent some time switching between the two tracks and you can hear a dramatic difference especially with the action scenes. However, it may also have to do with possible changes in the sound mix, rather then just the compression scheme.
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If they were not 100% volume matched, that could also account for the difference you heard.

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post #642 of 1005 Old 01-08-2013, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

If they were not 100% volume matched, that could also account for the difference you heard.

Since I own the disc, I have been able to play with it extensively. There is a significant difference in terms of dynamics on the LFE channel and surround envelopment, especially in the action sequences. I've adjusted the levels using an spl meter accordingly. The lossy track is very good, but the PCM track blew me away. I use it for my demo now.


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post #643 of 1005 Old 01-08-2013, 10:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

If they were not 100% volume matched, that could also account for the difference you heard.
I guarantee you that not only were the comparisons not 100% volume matched (which would most likely have to happen on-the-fly with consumer-level equipment,) they weren't blind either. In other words, results that are completely useless for anything other than BSing with your buddies.
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post #644 of 1005 Old 01-09-2013, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

If they were not 100% volume matched, that could also account for the difference you heard.



From CNET:
Quote:
David Birch-Jones and Geoff Morrison, visited Dolby Laboratories and DTS' headquarters to listen to the new formats under ideal conditions, comparing them to standard Dolby and DTS. Birch-Jones and Morrison were hard-pressed to hear significant differences.

I have limited experience listening to the two contenders, and I never managed to do speedy A-B comparisons. That said, from what I've heard, I thought that TrueHD and DTS Master Audio were better than the older formats, especially in the areas of imaging, spaciousness, top-end detail, and "air."

Ah, yes, but Morrison pointed out that even if you can reliably switch between, say, standard Dolby and Dolby TrueHD, and hear a significant difference between the two, the improvement may be traced to differences in the mixes of the two codecs on a given Blu-ray Disc. They may have been sourced from different masters, and that would account for the improved sonics.



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post #645 of 1005 Old 01-09-2013, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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The terms "imaging, spaciousness, top-end detail, and "air." .. are, of course, purely subjective from one listener to another ..

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post #646 of 1005 Old 01-09-2013, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

The terms "imaging, spaciousness, top-end detail, and "air." .. are, of course, purely subjective from one listener to another ..


Absolutely. However, with Worlds End it seems to be with the mix more then anything else. Unlike some other comparisons I have done, there is a very noticeable difference. You can hear more sound effects from the surrounds and on certain scenes the LFE channel is running about 4db hotter (close miked) on my meter.


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post #647 of 1005 Old 01-09-2013, 10:21 AM
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Agreed Mailiang. There are just too many variables to conclude anything I think with the big one being the possibility of different mixes. Same mix, volume matched and in a blind test I am betting MOST would not be able to tell the difference. As the poster above mentions though, I MUCH prefer lossless even if it might only be a psychological improvement. tongue.gif

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post #648 of 1005 Old 01-09-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Agreed Mailiang. There are just too many variables to conclude anything I think with the big one being the possibility of different mixes. Same mix, volume matched and in a blind test I am betting MOST would not be able to tell the difference. As the poster above mentions though, I MUCH prefer loss-less even if it might only be a psychological improvement. tongue.gif

But if the HD and non-HD tracks are DIFFERENT tracks, then that negates the 'you can't hear the difference so why do you care' arguments. I CAN usually hear the difference in my home, and whether it is due to the mix, different receiver processing, or any other variable really doesn't matter to me.

Regardless, the bottom line is that many of these movies are NOT ones that I will likely purchase even from a $1 bin. If I was going to buy, it would be the retail disk regardless of what is on the rental version. The average jane/joe doesn't know or care, but they've left me with a negative feeling towards their studio in general.
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post #649 of 1005 Old 01-09-2013, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I think that even if there are no real audible differences we would all prefer that a BD contain the HD track .. even though the DD track is within the BD standard ..

I don't have a state of the art system, but it's close .. and in direct comparison, side by side / A / B switch using the same brand player on both, it's difficult to pick one or the other and definitively say one is "better" than the other .. although I like to think I can still hear the nuances, at 65 it's likely my hearing is no longer good enough to really decide ..

There are just so many variables ..

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post #650 of 1005 Old 01-09-2013, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

although I like to think I can still hear the nuances, at 65 it's likely my hearing is no longer good enough to really decide

I can still hear subtle differences on certain sound tracks and I'm over 60. Think positive! biggrin.gif



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post #651 of 1005 Old 01-09-2013, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

I can still hear subtle differences on certain sound tracks and I'm over 60. Think positive! biggrin.gif
Ian

If I am really in the moment, have had a glass of wine or two, or a cocktail, and am relaxed and really listening, I can hear into the mix still and then things begin to open up .. wink.gif
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post #652 of 1005 Old 01-09-2013, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

If I am really in the moment, have had a glass of wine or two, or a cocktail, and am relaxed and really listening, I can hear into the mix still and then things begin to open up .. wink.gif

I'll have to try that!


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post #653 of 1005 Old 01-22-2013, 12:34 PM
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As I posted on the Netflix rental forum, my copy of Lionsgate's newly released BD The Possesion, included the DTS Master Audio soundtrack. So much for all the speculation.


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post #654 of 1005 Old 01-24-2013, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

As I posted on the Netflix rental forum, my copy of Lionsgate's newly released BD The Possesion, included the DTS Master Audio soundtrack. So much for all the speculation.


Ian
That really means nothing.

Even Lionsgate is only pulling their little stunt on their tentpole films. So, pretty much every highly anticpated action movie that has stuff that goes "boom". The rest of the stuff they put out doesn't seem to warrant it.
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post #655 of 1005 Old 01-24-2013, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

That really means nothing.


Maybe. I guess we will have to wait and see. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Even Lionsgate is only pulling their little stunt on their tentpole films. So, pretty much every highly anticpated action movie that has stuff that goes "boom". The rest of the stuff they put out doesn't seem to warrant it.



With all due respect, at this point, until I see a pattern, your assessment doesn't prove anything, at least not to me.



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post #656 of 1005 Old 01-24-2013, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the word experiment holds true on the encode issue .. not being privy to what's happening at LionsGate management choices, we are only guessing as to the motivation, what gets selected as a stripped Rental copy .. etc ..
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post #657 of 1005 Old 01-25-2013, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

With all due respect, at this point, until I see a pattern, your assessment doesn't prove anything, at least not to me.



Ian
Fine.

Assuming they continue to go the route of stripping some movies of lossless audio, here's my predictions of their upcoming films, based on what I believe is their M.O. - if I'm wrong, you can tell me so, but I'm betting I'm not:

- Texas Chainsaw 3D (2013) - Lossless, but no 3D on the rentals - it's possible it might be lossy like Cabin in the Woods, but it's a co-production with multiple studios, so it depends on how much pull those other guys have. This is probably the one title that could go either way.
- The Last Stand (2013) - Lossy only

- The Big Wedding (2013) - Lossless (Assuming a BD release)
- Dirty Dancing (2013) - Lossless
- I, Frankenstein (2013) - Lossless, since they're only a distributer
- Leprechaun (2013) - Lossy, like Cabin in the Woods
- Stand Up Guys (2013) - Lossless, since they're only a distributer
- The Hunger Games: Catching Fire (2013) - Lossy
- The Marriage Counselor (2013) - Lossless (Assuming a BD release)
- We the Peeples (2013) - Lossless (Assuming a BD release)
- You're Next (2013) - Lossless
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post #658 of 1005 Old 01-25-2013, 01:24 AM
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Much ado about nothing here. When they start to strip sell through copies I'll start to worry. As for the sighted anecdotal comparisons, they are good for entertainment value, nothing more. Also there are no different mixes, like the Cnet article alludes to, at least not for the same language territories, there is no reason to. There might be a difference between the the theatrical and home edition "near field" mixes, which happens more often you think or advertised on the disc, but not among the different compression encodes. You wanna believe otherwise based on your "personal experience" Knock yourself out.

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post #659 of 1005 Old 01-25-2013, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Much ado about nothing here. When they start to strip sell through copies I'll start to worry.

Since the whole theory seems to be an attempt to beef up retail copy sales, I doubt if they will begin to strip those ..

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post #660 of 1005 Old 01-25-2013, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Fine.

Assuming they continue to go the route of stripping some movies of lossless audio, here's my predictions of their upcoming films, based on what I believe is their M.O. - if I'm wrong, you can tell me so, but I'm betting I'm not:

- Texas Chainsaw 3D (2013) - Lossless, but no 3D on the rentals - it's possible it might be lossy like Cabin in the Woods, but it's a co-production with multiple studios, so it depends on how much pull those other guys have. This is probably the one title that could go either way.
- The Last Stand (2013) - Lossy only

- The Big Wedding (2013) - Lossless (Assuming a BD release)
- Dirty Dancing (2013) - Lossless
- I, Frankenstein (2013) - Lossless, since they're only a distributer
- Leprechaun (2013) - Lossy, like Cabin in the Woods
- Stand Up Guys (2013) - Lossless, since they're only a distributer
- The Hunger Games: Catching Fire (2013) - Lossy
- The Marriage Counselor (2013) - Lossless (Assuming a BD release)
- We the Peeples (2013) - Lossless (Assuming a BD release)
- You're Next (2013) - Lossless


I'd play the odds, but I only do off track betting.


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