NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 992 Old 11-03-2013, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

Wait a minute - are you trying to say that every disc has to have a PCM, DD, and DTS track on it?

No, all players must support PCM, DD and DTS. Software must use one of those. See - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Audio
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post #722 of 992 Old 11-03-2013, 11:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bill WOW HD View Post

No, all players must support PCM, DD and DTS. Software must use one of those. See - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Audio
I was attempting to clarify his post before correcting him.

I know the specs.
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post #723 of 992 Old 11-04-2013, 05:16 PM
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Some titles from Lionsgate that are released with DTS HD 7.1 only have DTS HD 5.1 "The Last Stand" was one such title!!!

I think "Now You See Me" is another title supposed to have 7.1 but only has 5.1

At least Paramount & Disney & Universal titles still offer 7.1 when available!!!

I normally rent via Netflix to determine if I am going to purchase the movie
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post #724 of 992 Old 11-04-2013, 05:29 PM
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DTSHD 5.1 is a lot better than DD 5.1!

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post #725 of 992 Old 11-27-2013, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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DD 5.1 audio reported on RedBox rentals of Red 2 ..
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post #726 of 992 Old 11-27-2013, 12:09 PM
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That sucks!

Oh well, I sure as hell ain't buying it...

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post #727 of 992 Old 11-27-2013, 05:52 PM
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Yup.... Have a Red 2 RedBox disc in hand and it is only DD 5.1
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post #728 of 992 Old 11-28-2013, 08:33 AM
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I have a copy of Red 2 I rented from Netflix. Haven't had a chance to play it, but will check out the audio this weekend. I haven't rented a new lossy release in nearly a year, hopefully this won't become a trend again.


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post #729 of 992 Old 11-30-2013, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Apparently, Red 1 was DD 5.1 on rental copies and then a "Special Edition" came out for consumers with HD audio .. maybe the same scenario on Red II ..

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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post #730 of 992 Old 11-30-2013, 09:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Apparently, Red 1 was DD 5.1 on rental copies and then a "Special Edition" came out for consumers with HD audio .. maybe the same scenario on Red II ..

The retail version of Red II has lossless audio (DTS-HD MA 7.1, I believe.)

As for the first Red, they've released a rental version, a bare bones retail version (which only has lossy audio like the rental version) and a special edition retail version that has extras and lossless audio.
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post #731 of 992 Old 12-03-2013, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

The retail version of Red II has lossless audio (DTS-HD MA 7.1, I believe.)

As for the first Red, they've released a rental version, a bare bones retail version (which only has lossy audio like the rental version) and a special edition retail version that has extras and lossless audio.

I just rented RED2 from Redbox and it's only 5.1, how lame! I'm sure it will sound ok, but I was really looking forward to hearing some DTS true 7.1 lossless audio since I just spent a fortune upgrading my stuff. I'm pretty annoyed at NF too for the amount of streaming stuff that is only 2.0, pitiful. I can't afford to buy a disc every time I just want to watch something and hear the good audio. So NF is also renting out blu-ray discs with downgraded audio?
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post #732 of 992 Old 12-03-2013, 07:17 AM
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Netflix is renting and sending out what they are allowed. For the upteenth time its not their "fault". A studio has chosen to remove lossless from certain titles on blu-ray, just like many remove the unrated/director's cut. Redbox and Netflix are only allowed the rental version, nothing they can do.

My system is nice enough that a DD 5.1 track is not the end of the world. I used to let the concept bother me but no way in hell am I buying Red 2. It's easier to just enjoy the movie and not get caught up in studio greed,

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post #733 of 992 Old 12-03-2013, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Netflix is renting and sending out what they are allowed. For the upteenth time its not their "fault". A studio has chosen to remove lossless from certain titles on blu-ray, just like many remove the unrated/director's cut. Redbox and Netflix are only allowed the rental version, nothing they can do.

My system is nice enough that a DD 5.1 track is not the end of the world. I used to let the concept bother me but no way in hell am I buying Red 2. It's easier to just enjoy the movie and not get caught up in studio greed,

Exactly .. if a rental version is produced, it's likely to be at both NF and RB ..

If a real B&M is in your area, it's possible they may stock the full retail version ..

RB and NF really cannot be faulted .. they offer inexpensive rentals .. Studios believe they are undercutting the value of the content .. they compromise by cutting corners ..

As I've mentioned before, if NF or RB could come up with a premium rental pricepoint and offer full retail disks for an additional charge, some would probably use it ..

Otherwise, the bulk of the population neither cares nor notices the downgrade audio ..

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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post #734 of 992 Old 12-03-2013, 07:41 AM
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I hear ya. I was going to comment on the DMCA and other unconstitutional copywrong junk out there, but I figured maybe I shouldn't start beating that dead horse. :/ I have a decent enough receiver that it will sound good anyway and will be extended to 7.1 reasonably well using Audyssey or DD EX, but it's just the principal of thing with me.
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post #735 of 992 Old 12-03-2013, 07:41 AM
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I rent quite a bit, and have for a long time. This is like a once or twice a year thing, and then I watch a DVD or two a year for the odd non blu-ray release. When you weigh in the cost of the rental, vs $15 for buying, the missing lossless is not that big of a deal IMO.

I used to let it get me worked up more over "whats on paper" vs actual audio performance. Its not a big deal. I do like this thread so I know it going in, Im also tempted to remove a movie from my "buy list" if the studio removes lossless from the rental. Thats just me punching back.
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post #736 of 992 Old 12-03-2013, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony fremont View Post

I just rented RED2 from Redbox and it's only 5.1, how lame! I'm sure it will sound ok, but I was really looking forward to hearing some DTS true 7.1 lossless audio since I just spent a fortune upgrading my stuff. I'm pretty annoyed at NF too for the amount of streaming stuff that is only 2.0, pitiful. I can't afford to buy a disc every time I just want to watch something and hear the good audio. So NF is also renting out blu-ray discs with downgraded audio?

Yep, just watched Red 2 Blu-ray from NF, and it has DD 5.1. Didn't sound too bad. If the studios think the omission of DTS-HD MA is going to influence me to purchase their titles, they are mistaken.

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post #737 of 992 Old 12-05-2013, 04:32 AM
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Got Avatar blu-ray rental in the mail yesterday from NF. Looks more like a retail disk than many, it contained DTS HD 5.1.
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post #738 of 992 Old 12-05-2013, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Exactly .. if a rental version is produced, it's likely to be at both NF and RB ..

If a real B&M is in your area, it's possible they may stock the full retail version ..

RB and NF really cannot be faulted .. they offer inexpensive rentals .. Studios believe they are undercutting the value of the content .. they compromise by cutting corners ..

As I've mentioned before, if NF or RB could come up with a premium rental pricepoint and offer full retail disks for an additional charge, some would probably use it ..

Otherwise, the bulk of the population neither cares nor notices the downgrade audio ..
Also keep in mind that a lot of people still use coax/optical to their AVR or soundbar and believe they are getting HD audio because the packages says so. wink.gif

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post #739 of 992 Old 12-05-2013, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by anthony fremont View Post

I'm pretty annoyed at NF too for the amount of streaming stuff that is only 2.0, pitiful.
The audio available in most cases is device specific.
On my Roku or PS3, I usually get DD 5.1 on Netflix streaming if it's HD content but on my Panasonic 3D Blu-ray player, it only provides 2.0 for most HD titles.
This goes for Amazon streaming as well.

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post #740 of 992 Old 12-05-2013, 12:46 PM
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The audio available in most cases is device specific.
On my Roku or PS3, I usually get DD 5.1 on Netflix streaming if it's HD content but on my Panasonic 3D Blu-ray player, it only provides 2.0 for most HD titles.
This goes for Amazon streaming as well.

Do you have your blu-ray player plugged into an AVR HDMI port or straight into the TV? My TV only reports 2.0 capability to anything connected directly to its HDMI ports.
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post #741 of 992 Old 12-05-2013, 06:18 PM
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Do you have your blu-ray player plugged into an AVR HDMI port or straight into the TV? My TV only reports 2.0 capability to anything connected directly to its HDMI ports.
Player directly to AVR, same as Roku and PS3.
You can hear the difference to.

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post #742 of 992 Old 12-06-2013, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post


Also keep in mind that a lot of people still use coax/optical to their AVR or soundbar and believe they are getting HD audio because the packages says so. wink.gif

Are you saying that HD audio does not get passed through coax/optical connections? Sorry if I misunderstood...
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post #743 of 992 Old 12-06-2013, 08:01 AM
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Are you saying that HD audio does not get passed through coax/optical connections? Sorry if I misunderstood...
coax/optical can only carry AC-3 5.1 Dolby Digital, PCM 2.0 48khz, and DTS (I think). The DD 5.1 and DTS are considered "lossy" compression (not HD). You'll only get true HD audio thru an HDMI connection. I think optical/coax is limited to about 640kb/S whereas HDMI can carry many megabits per second of audio data.

Optical/coax SPDIF hookup only sound equipment is not a future-proof solution, it's not even capable of current needs.
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post #744 of 992 Old 12-06-2013, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you saying that HD audio does not get passed through coax/optical connections? Sorry if I misunderstood...

correct .. coax / optical doe not pass HD lossless audio ..

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post #745 of 992 Old 12-07-2013, 02:04 PM
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I watched Red 2 from Netflix last night and was disappointed to see that it was DD5.1 when the same disc in the stores is DTS MA 7.1. Like many people who have commented about this movie on this forum, it is a shame that movie companies are doing this. There is actually a better chance that I might buy a movie if I know from watching the rental that the AQ is awesome.

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post #746 of 992 Old 12-07-2013, 07:08 PM
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One thing I've noticed is DD 5.1 and PCM on my setup is about 3db quieter/lower than HD audio.
I always boost my audio up 3db for DD 5.1 or PCM audio.
This seems to at least match the audio to HD level and helps bring lower compressed audio more audible(DD 5.1) or the lower volume up(PCM).
YMMV

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Player-->HDMI (bitstream)-->AVR

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post #747 of 992 Old 12-08-2013, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

One thing I've noticed is DD 5.1 and PCM on my setup is about 3db quieter/lower than HD audio.
I always boost my audio up 3db for DD 5.1 or PCM audio.
This seems to at least match the audio to HD level and helps bring lower compressed audio more audible(DD 5.1) or the lower volume up(PCM).
YMMV

Setup:
Player-->HDMI (bitstream)-->AVR

I believe Dolby Digital uses an encoded volume level, where as DTS does not. The PCM software in your player may be sending the audio output at a different level then your AVR.


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post #748 of 992 Old 12-08-2013, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by anthony fremont View Post

coax/optical can only carry AC-3 5.1 Dolby Digital, PCM 2.0 48khz, and DTS (I think).

Actually, digital coax can pass PCM 2.0 at least up to 192 kHz 24 bit. (My receiver displays bit depth and sample rate, and it knows when I'm sending it HD PCM. It doesn't support 384/32, so I'm not sure if digital coax can pass PCM 2.0 above 192/24) I believe you're right that it cannot pass PCM 5.1 regardless of sample rate.

I can't speak to optical.

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post #749 of 992 Old 12-09-2013, 12:08 AM
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Optical (TOSLINK) and coaxial digitial audio connections have the same characteristics and limits. The underlying protocol is the same, only the physical media is different. According to what I've read, the data rate limits are the same for each type of SPDIF link (optical or coax) even though the physical devices might be capable of differing maximum data rates.

At 24 bit depth and 192khz, a stereo PCM signal would occupy a bit over 12 megabits/second, including overhead/preamble bits. I'm not sure that the spec guarantees 24 bit depth (I think only 20 bits is guaranteed) or 192khz, but that doesn't mean that some hardware doesn't exceed the specs and allow it, especially the output from PC sound cards and inputs of fancy receivers.

I want to add that this should be fast enough to "bitstream" some of the other more advanced protocols compressed (like DD+ for example), but the copyright fear mongers wont allow it since SPDIF is not "protected" with DHCP.
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post #750 of 992 Old 02-06-2014, 01:42 PM
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Escape Plan rental, no lossless...

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