NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post



Of course Redbox should also have correct info about the titles they rent on their own website too. With the available audio tracks being shown.

Dollar Fifty Rentals available at Kiosks located at fast food joints, Walmart, Walgreens, etc .. it's not like RB is trying to cater to the higher end audio market .. tongue.gif

I don't think I have ever seen any audio info on the RB website on any disk .. and certainly not on an out of the Kiosk rental ..

Personally, I'm glad that this whole issue seems to still be contained, for the most part, to the Lionsgate disks .. and has not yet become an industry trend ..
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post #902 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I think you might be reaching if you think Redbox or Netflix has the power to make Lionsgate add the lossless back.

Theoretically, if Redbox had enough customers complaining/stop renting from them, they could go to Lionsgate and say, "WTF, add lossless or we walk." Lionsgate might not want to lose one of their top customers.

Maybe? Theoretically? wink.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #903 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 08:05 AM
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I think this sample group is so small its just a blip on the radar, if that.

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post #904 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn 

Personally, I'm glad that this whole issue seems to still be contained, for the most part, to the Lionsgate disks .. and has not yet become an industry trend ..

Since redbox is willing to give refunds, clearly they know they are doing something wrong and antagonizing customers, hence their willingness to make it right with the refund.

I don't want it to become an industry trend either, but if we don't speak up, it just might.
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post #905 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 08:39 AM
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I know I wouldn't even bother wasting my time on a refund of the BD rental for audio. I just watch it. Although if I'm aware of the title before hand, then I will rent it from www.3D-Blurayrental.com since they will have the retail version.

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post #906 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post

Theoretically, if Redbox had enough customers complaining/stop renting from them, they could go to Lionsgate and say, "WTF, add lossless or we walk." Lionsgate might not want to lose one of their top customers.

Maybe? Theoretically? wink.gifbiggrin.gif

If customers would contact Lionsgate direct, (they have contact info on their website) then, maybe .. complaining direct to RB or NF is unlikely to cause a change .. the deal with Lionsgate is simple .. we'll sell you these downgrade audio BD's for X dollars each .. if you want the full meal deal, it's going to cost you Z .. RB / NF need and want the cheapest possible cost, so they opt to go with the cheapest possible cost .. they always have the option to pay more and raise rental costs to the consumer ..

If it means that much to folks, they can always use

http://www.stores-3d-blurayrental.com/servlet/StoreFront
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post #907 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 08:42 AM
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Redbox refunds are actually very easy, and if you are mad about it, go ahead and get one. I had a few times where a machine was done and I had rented online already. They would issue me two free credits + another free credit to cover the movie I had already been charged for. That was a 5 minute call standing there looking at the machine (even on Sunday)

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post #908 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markhyams View Post

Since redbox is willing to give refunds, clearly they know they are doing something wrong and antagonizing customers, hence their willingness to make it right with the refund.

I don't want it to become an industry trend either, but if we don't speak up, it just might.

The issuance of a credit to one customer in thousands is nothing more than a way to shut you up .. there is no admission of wrongdoing .. rolleyes.gif
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post #909 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Redbox refunds are actually very easy, and if you are mad about it, go ahead and get one. I had a few times where a machine was done and I had rented online already. They would issue me two free credits + another free credit to cover the movie I had already been charged for. That was a 5 minute call standing there looking at the machine (even on Sunday)

This last winter, when temps dropped to below zero and I did an online reservation a couple different times, the box was frozen / locked up when I got there .. that did warrant a call and they did issue the credits .. rightfully so .. they also needed to know the machine was down .. otherwise, like aaron said, I don't waste my time on a call for downgrade audio, since, for the most part, I know if it's a Lionsgate, there is a good chance it will be ..
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post #910 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I think this sample group is so small its just a blip on the radar, if that.

That's why I said theoretically. wink.gif

I agree with you, though. If nothing else, it's a good way to get some discounts/refunds on rentals . . . biggrin.gif

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post #911 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post

That's why I said theoretically. wink.gif

I agree with you, though. If nothing else, it's a good way to get some discounts/refunds on rentals . . . biggrin.gif

You mean game the system .. ??

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post #912 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 09:27 AM
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I have no problem with people making it as painful as possible for Lionsgate to be able to continue this practice. You can bet anything hitting Redbox in the pocket will make its way up the chain to Lionsgate one way or the other--if enough people do this. If every studio was doing it, maybe not, but since they seem to be on their own--maybe pressure helps.

All of it depends on the pricing structure too. We don't really know if Lionsgate gives a discount vs. other studios for these versions, or other pricing particulars.

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post #913 of 992 Old 04-07-2014, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Redbox has 47.8% market share of the physical rental market, as of Q1 2013 .. I seriously doubt a few disgruntled customers that complain about stripped audio is going to have any impact ..

And blaming the rental company for what a studio requires seems a bit unfair ..

Let's also not forget that we're getting actual release day disks from Lionsgate .. rather than "delayed release" .. which I believe has a lot to do with the issue .. perhaps if Lionsgate went to "delayed release" .. ??
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post #914 of 992 Old 04-16-2014, 07:31 PM
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The Redbox version of Gravity has DTS-HDMA but the movie is only ~17GB. This seems smaller than it should be. I had a similar experience with Hunger Games 2 (rental version had a lower bit rate than retail).

If anybody here has a retail copy of Gravity, can you comment on the movie size?


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post #915 of 992 Old 04-17-2014, 04:26 AM
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It is only around 90 minutes long, so it will probably be smaller than normal, I think.

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post #916 of 992 Old 04-17-2014, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post

It is only around 90 minutes long, so it will probably be smaller than normal, I think.

Mark

This.

Hunger Games is a MUCH longer movie.

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post #917 of 992 Old 04-17-2014, 07:28 PM
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From an earlier post I made here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1520622/the-hunger-games-catching-fire-blu-ray-official-avsforum-review/60#post_24460800
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I did not realize this was Lionsgate. I'm sure it will be DD for the rental.....damn!

I know they are pushing the buy, but It gets worse...the BD starts with a DTS MA track, sound teaser..then the previews are DD, which is standard, but then so is the movie. So...into my cynical mode I go...I refuse to buy a movie for an audio track and Toe you know how I feel...I like you want what we had and nothing short of what is capable. I really want to bring back the rental, call Redbox, get a refund which they will do and tell them not to cater to the studios...blah blah. I know, waste of time. I am paying the same and getting less, yet the studios are paying less and giving us less and making more. They get more money, we get less product. The industry is not making enough profit to offset consumer dislike for less product/same price and that is why we will be going to all downloads in a few years and getting less unless they can come up with a way to offer eq sound and pic. Granted the industry is in business to make money, but I don't need ANY of this....its a want...empowerment, but I don't want it bad enough to play the game. Wish I could turn back the clock to having stores like Hollywood and BD's with lossless.

Great movie, PQ is stellar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

wish I would have read this thread before I went out and rented from Redbox.

I don't think I am going to do Redbox anymore.

mad.gif
Just watched it w/o reading this thread, DD 5.1 only via RedBox , wtf Lionsgate??
Tomorrow I'm submitting claim to RedBox and request refund.
Blu-ray touts both video and audio as highest quality. DD5.1 is inferior.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I posted on both RedBox and Lionsgate facebook page on DD 5.1 on a Blu-ray, suggest others here complaining do same....
https://www.facebook.com/redbox
https://www.facebook.com/lionsgate

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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I posted a "complaint" to RedBox, here it is, I'll post their answer
Quote:
Question Reference #xxxxxx-xxxxxx
Summary: General Question
Date Created: 03/10/2014 0x:xx AM
Last Updated: 03/10/2014 0x:xx AM
Status: Unresolved
What can we help you with?: General Question
We are here to assist you with: DVD/Blu Ray/Games Rental

DVD Rented
The Hunger Games: Catching Fire

Rental Location Address
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Discussion Thread
Customer By Web Form (mike r) 03/10/2014 0x:xx AM
Hi;
Transaction ID: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxblu-ray not have lossless audio - request refund
I rented The Hunger Games: Catching Fire.

It doe NOT contain lossless HD audio like Blu-ray should, rather only DolbyDigital 5.1 Audio.

Therefore I"m requesting a full refund of my $1.59.
Blu-ray touts both video and audio as highest quality. DD 5.1 is inferior.
please make clear to customer their Blu-ray may not contain HD audio

and their response,
Quote:
Subject
General Question

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (Redbox Support) 03/10/2014 0x:xx PM
Hello Mike,

Thank you for contacting Redbox Customer Care. We're sorry that the Blu ray you rented did not have the audio that you like. Please understand that to keep rental cost low, Redbox has made agreements with studios to provide DolbyDigital 5.1 audio on some of our Blu ray discs. We just ask that going forward you keep this in mind, so not all the Blu ray discs you rent will have the audio you are asking for.

We understand how disappointing it is when you're unable to rent something in the format you want Mike. As a one time courtesy, I’ve issued you a rental credit, good for free, one-day rental of any DVD or Blu-ray Disc of your choice. The credit is valid for 30 days from today's date.

• To use a credit at a box: at checkout, touch the USE CREDITS button. Then swipe a payment card associated with your redbox.com account, confirm your credits and finish checking out.

• To use a credit on redbox.com or the mobile app: on the checkout screen, check the box that says “use credits.” Then log in to the account associated with your credits, confirm your credits and finish checking out.

If you have any more questions, please visit https://redbox.custhelp.com

Thank you,

Redbox Customer Care
So, they have come "clean", admit they've negotiated using audio "downgrade" of DD 5.1 as cost cutting measure.

Now I've got the facts from them, so how does that make you feel?

I'd like to see a sign on all the Redbox machines:
"Warning: Blu-ray disc may not contain lossless audio (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, etc), may contain lossy audio format such as Dolby Digital 5.1 / DTS 5.1, you rent Blu-ray as is, no refunds given".


I posted this on Redbox comments to the movie, curious how long it lasts there before they delete the comment.
RedBox%2520audio.jpg

In the end I got (1) credit and recently used that as they only are good for 30 days.

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post #918 of 992 Old 04-17-2014, 08:38 PM
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I just assume if it's Summit/ Lionsgate it will be dolby digital only, if it's an interesting title I'll just buy it, being more rental have no extras on them either.

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post #919 of 992 Old 04-18-2014, 05:16 AM
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I like the bottom review. Didnt like the ending? WTF? Goofball, read the book first...

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post #920 of 992 Old 04-18-2014, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

From an earlier post I made here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1520622/the-hunger-games-catching-fire-blu-ray-official-avsforum-review/60#post_24460800


In the end I got (1) credit and recently used that as they only are good for 30 days.


It is higher quality. The DD on a Blu-ray Disc is higher quality than you can get from any DVD since the bitrate is higher.

I just don't see the big deal with a $1.50 rental. That is just pocket change. Literally. I have that much in change in my pocket each day.
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post #921 of 992 Old 04-18-2014, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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While like most AVS members, I would prefer lossless encodes on every BD .. however :

1) Your beef should be conveyed to the studio, Lionsgate has contact info on their Website .. of course, that's not likely to get you a free rental
2) I'd also like all disks available on actual day of release
3) RB has never made it a secret that some releases are downgrade audio, so that should not be some sort of revelation ..
4) If it means so much to you that you're willing to go thru the time and effort to re-gain a dollar fifty, why not take your business to

http://www.stores-3d-blurayrental.com/servlet/StoreFront

Oh, the humanity .. rolleyes.gif
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post #922 of 992 Old 04-19-2014, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

From an earlier post I made here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1520622/the-hunger-games-catching-fire-blu-ray-official-avsforum-review/60#post_24460800


In the end I got (1) credit and recently used that as they only are good for 30 days.


It is higher quality. The DD on a Blu-ray Disc is higher quality than you can get from any DVD since the bitrate is higher.

I just don't see the big deal with a $1.50 rental. That is just pocket change. Literally. I have that much in change in my pocket each day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

While like most AVS members, I would prefer lossless encodes on every BD .. however :

1) Your beef should be conveyed to the studio, Lionsgate has contact info on their Website .. of course, that's not likely to get you a free rental
2) I'd also like all disks available on actual day of release
3) RB has never made it a secret that some releases are downgrade audio, so that should not be some sort of revelation ..
4) If it means so much to you that you're willing to go thru the time and effort to re-gain a dollar fifty, why not take your business to

http://www.stores-3d-blurayrental.com/servlet/StoreFront

Oh, the humanity .. rolleyes.gif

It never was truly about a measly $1.50 refund, more for me, the blu-ray experience includes both HD audio (lossless) and HD video.
For whatever reason RB/LG has a inside management level "deal" to downgrade the audio to DD 5.1, so they are defining the rental Blu-ray experience as Video only being good enough?

My thought: It's the ethics of a Blu-ray is a Blu-ray is a Blu-ray for same movie, no matter if you buy, rent, etc from any place.
Now, that is not true, I get it, clearly.

I asked for $1.50 back to try and get a response to explain their rationale for doing that, of course $1.50 is chump change.
Their email response gave fact based data such a deal exists.

In the end, not world peace, I've had my "fun"with this and realize I'm truly in the 3-5% minority who cares about lossless audio (and also room acoustics), as those 95% - 97% most likely have a 1080p HDTV in their living room thru whatever audio set-up they are using (sound bar/Bose/etc) do not care DD 5.1 or lossless. So I'm not the RB/LG target audience.

Just RB is everywhere now, and really convenient for me to get the one-off movies to watch, those I won't buy but still want to watch.
I will still rent from RB, I've lowered my audio expectations based on reality.

Peace and happy Easter weekend.

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post #923 of 992 Old 04-19-2014, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post


It never was truly about a measly $1.50 refund, more for me, the blu-ray experience includes both HD audio (lossless) and HD video.
For whatever reason RB/LG has a inside management level "deal" to downgrade the audio to DD 5.1, so they are defining the rental Blu-ray experience as Video only being good enough?

My thought: It's the ethics of a Blu-ray is a Blu-ray is a Blu-ray for same movie, no matter if you buy, rent, etc from any place.
Now, that is not true, I get it, clearly.

I asked for $1.50 back to try and get a response to explain their rationale for doing that, of course $1.50 is chump change.
Their email response gave fact based data such a deal exists.

In the end, not world peace, I've had my "fun"with this and realize I'm truly in the 3-5% minority who cares about lossless audio (and also room acoustics), as those 95% - 97% most likely have a 1080p HDTV in their living room thru whatever audio set-up they are using (sound bar/Bose/etc) do not care DD 5.1 or lossless. So I'm not the RB/LG target audience.

Just RB is everywhere now, and really convenient for me to get the one-off movies to watch, those I won't buy but still want to watch.
I will still rent from RB, I've lowered my audio expectations based on reality.

I agree.

Let's not forget that for The Hunger Games Catching Fire, not only is DTS-HD MA missing, but the video bitrate was also downconverted to fit on a BD-25.


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post #924 of 992 Old 04-19-2014, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post


It never was truly about a measly $1.50 refund, more for me, the blu-ray experience includes both HD audio (lossless) and HD video.
For whatever reason RB/LG has a inside management level "deal" to downgrade the audio to DD 5.1, so they are defining the rental Blu-ray experience as Video only being good enough?

My thought: It's the ethics of a Blu-ray is a Blu-ray is a Blu-ray for same movie, no matter if you buy, rent, etc from any place.
Now, that is not true, I get it, clearly.

I asked for $1.50 back to try and get a response to explain their rationale for doing that, of course $1.50 is chump change.
Their email response gave fact based data such a deal exists.

In the end, not world peace, I've had my "fun"with this and realize I'm truly in the 3-5% minority who cares about lossless audio (and also room acoustics), as those 95% - 97% most likely have a 1080p HDTV in their living room thru whatever audio set-up they are using (sound bar/Bose/etc) do not care DD 5.1 or lossless. So I'm not the RB/LG target audience.

Just RB is everywhere now, and really convenient for me to get the one-off movies to watch, those I won't buy but still want to watch.
I will still rent from RB, I've lowered my audio expectations based on reality.

Peace and happy Easter weekend.

DOn't some of these titles also have lower quality video? A lower video bitrate for the rental disc than the retail disc? Why isn't anyone complaining about that?

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post #925 of 992 Old 04-19-2014, 07:30 AM
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Not that Ive heard of. It comes down to them trying to put a whole movie on a BD-25, so they drop lossless 7.1 usually. Not hard to put a trimmed down blu-ray on a BD-25 if you drop all the goodies. I know this, because I used to do it, a lot.

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post #926 of 992 Old 04-19-2014, 07:35 AM
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Most BD's have excellent PQ and lossless audio, so I'm not all that concerned about the few titles that do not. Even the most watered down rental BD's offer better quality then PPV, and you're paying a lot less.


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post #927 of 992 Old 04-19-2014, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Not that Ive heard of. It comes down to them trying to put a whole movie on a BD-25, so they drop lossless 7.1 usually. Not hard to put a trimmed down blu-ray on a BD-25 if you drop all the goodies. I know this, because I used to do it, a lot.

After taking into account the size of the lossless audio track, Hunger Games 2 definitely has downconverted video on the rental version.


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post #928 of 992 Old 04-19-2014, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Most BD's have excellent PQ and lossless audio, so I'm not all that concerned about the few titles that do not. Even the most watered down rental BD's offer better quality then PPV, and you're paying a lot less.


Ian

If Redbox explicitly stated they are downconverting video and removing audio tracks from the blu-ray rental, I'd be ok with that. I think that's the general consensus of this thread in the first place.

In my case, as a Redbox newbie, I rented Hunger Games 2 as my first rental, and got Katniss-shafted. rolleyes.gif


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post #929 of 992 Old 04-19-2014, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

If Redbox explicitly stated they are downconverting video and removing audio tracks from the blu-ray rental, I'd be ok with that. I think that's the general consensus of this thread in the first place.

In my case, as a Redbox newbie, I rented Hunger Games 2 as my first rental, and got Katniss-shafted. rolleyes.gif

RedBox is not doing anything .. it's the studios they buy disks from .. I don't think RB has ever put up audio / video info on site and it's certainly not on the Kiosk menu ..

Anyone care to post a link as proof to the what now you're rumoring to be a downres video bitrate as some sort of proof on that, I'd love to see it .. I generally check bitrates on one of my PS3's while playback is on and I've seen absolutely nothing to back up this ..

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post #930 of 992 Old 04-19-2014, 02:34 PM
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Anyone with the software, I dont have it anymore, could see if a stripped Hunger Games 2 could fit on a 25 with full PQ. Thats the real test instead of opinions.

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