NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio / DD 5.1 Instead - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 10:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post

hello guys, i always rent at redbox kiosk movies. is it true the HD movies in redbox doesnt give good quality sound? compare to HD movies in stores like bestbuy.

Other than the 4 titles we have identified, there is no difference between the BDs you rent at Redbox and the BDs you buy at Best Buy as far as sound quality.
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post #182 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Other than the 4 titles we have identified, there is no difference between the BDs you rent at Redbox and the BDs you buy at Best Buy as far as sound quality.
thanks. just wanna make it sure. i think im gonna go to redbox now and rent battleshsip. smile.gif

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post #183 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

I did specifically say "all in one solution". Further, I'm on a PC so Handbrake is out and I hear that's one of the more painless ones. The PC solutions often lack a lot of...shall we say...finess...
I personally hate the digital copies because of the time limit on aquiring them and it being on me to safely store my copy with a backup so a hard drive crash doesn't screw me. Also, making my own means I can choose the exact quality I want for the device I plan to view it on. Plus, like you alluded to, I can make them OS independent.
Copying a movie you legally purchased is for your own personal use not illegal. The "illegal" part stems from using software that uses a decryption key that was not properly obtained, such as "borrowing" one from the DVD playback software on your computer. That stems from the DMCA rules. In short, it's the method of decryption that makes it "illegal", but is something that would not likely have the FBI knocking on your door. The software act essentially trumps that with the right to backup software for personal use. DVDs and BDs are considered software.
Now, if you distribute that copy to a bunch of people - or sell it to anyone at all, that would be illegal. Further, copying a movie you don't own a legal copy of would also be illegal.
Further, breaking encryption to view or obtain content you haven't obtained the proper rights to view, would also be illegal. So, hacking Netflix's streaming service to download their movies to a local system would be considered a crime.

I have an attorney contact who told me flat out that ripping movies that you have purchased is not legal if you have to use software to rip the movie and circumvent any protection the studio may have put in place (which is exactly what is being done with software like Mac The Ripper and Handbrake). That said, he told me that if this is just personal use and a backup the chance of ever being prosecuted and getting anything to stick would be little to none. The studios have much larger fish to fry. I make backup copies of some of my movies for the record. But I understand that, technically, it is not legal. Hence my post and clearly there are people in this very thread who are talking about buying movies, ripping them, then selling their physical copy which is illegal.
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post #184 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 11:15 AM
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I think your attorney friend is about right. It is not illegal to make ripping software or even distribute them. The act of cirumventing the copy-protection is illegal. But unless they caught you doing it, you can always blame your dog did it smile.gif Studios are more interest on those who distribute the ripped copies, e.g. those use torrolent to download movies and didn't know that in the mean time they are also distribute them to the world because that's how P2P works in general.
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post #185 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

I think your attorney friend is about right. It is not illegal to make ripping software or even distribute them. The act of cirumventing the copy-protection is illegal. But unless they caught you doing it, you can always blame your dog did it smile.gif Studios are more interest on those who distribute the ripped copies, e.g. those use torrolent to download movies and didn't know that in the mean time they are also distribute them to the world because that's how P2P works in general.

I think there is a strong effort to nab the disc counterfeiters .. those that reproduce to sell at flea markets, etc .. just in my area (St Louis), there have been a surprising number of busts in the last couple years .. people found with repro equipment in the basement as well as literally thousands of movie copies .. as well as being quite good at making these clones .. I never would have thought it was as big a deal as it apparently is .. I don't know what enforcement goes into downloads, etc ..

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post #186 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

I only use Blockbuster but I've never not had HD audio with any rental...is this something new?

This is not true. There are only a few BD rentals out there that do not have lossless audio. Blockbuster, Netflix, and Redbox all use the same rental discs. Hunger Games and Cabin in the Woods recently and Red that came out earlier last year were the ones I remember. So yes most of the BD rental discs have lossless audio, Blockbuster included.
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Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

I didnt care for the lack of 'extra content' on the rentals from RedBox.
But now this? ! Unbelievable. I'm fed up. Then they complain because people download and rip... it's crazy.

It is rental discs in general. If you want the extra content you have to buy the retail disc. I do agree with the studios on this, but not purposely leaving HD audio off the disc so we are forced to buy the retail disc to get it. The whole point of Blu-ray is for top notch HD video and audio!
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post #187 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

I think there is a strong effort to nab the disc counterfeiters .. those that reproduce to sell at flea markets, etc .. just in my area (St Louis), there have been a surprising number of busts in the last couple years .. people found with repro equipment in the basement as well as literally thousands of movie copies .. as well as being quite good at making these clones .. I never would have thought it was as big a deal as it apparently is .. I don't know what enforcement goes into downloads, etc ..

Sounds like some jobs are imported from China now smile.gif I thought this only happens in China smile.gif

On download side, studios hire companies to spy on all the popular torrent sites. You typically get a letter from your ISP for occasional downloaders. Some get a black mail letter from lawyers working for studios ask you to settle for a few grand. Others are prosecuted. in court. I have friends who got letter from his ISP.
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post #188 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

1. Currently there are only two confirmed titles (both from Lionsgate) have this problem.

I can confirm that this goes back further with Lions Gate. I first noticed this was with the Conan the Barbarian and Warrior. I can also confirm Abduction and Safe were the same.
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post #189 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thxman View Post

I can confirm that this goes back further with Lions Gate. I first noticed this was with the Conan the Barbarian and Warrior. I can also confirm Abduction and Safe were the same.

From what I've seen reported on other sites, I believe this to be true ..

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post #190 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Sounds like some jobs are imported from China now smile.gif I thought this only happens in China smile.gif
On download side, studios hire companies to spy on all the popular torrent sites. You typically get a letter from your ISP for occasional downloaders. Some get a black mail letter from lawyers working for studios ask you to settle for a few grand. Others are prosecuted. in court. I have friends who got letter from his ISP.

Yep, we're bringing jobs back to the USA ..

Back in when Napster and the like first became hugely popular peer to peer sites, I remember the bru ha ha over kids getting the letters and the lawsuits / settlements .. I suppose it's no different now .. I have a very, very basic undertstanding how the torrents work.. but from what I know, it seems more difficult to track down individual users .. confused.gif

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post #191 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Yep, we're bringing jobs back to the USA ..
Back in when Napster and the like first became hugely popular peer to peer sites, I remember the bru ha ha over kids getting the letters and the lawsuits / settlements .. I suppose it's no different now .. I have a very, very basic undertstanding how the torrents work.. but from what I know, it seems more difficult to track down individual users .. confused.gif

It would not be if the ISP's provided the information. Generally speaking the ISP's have the technology and tools to shutdown torrents, but until they are legally obligated to do so, they most likely won't for fear of being sued.

If piracy continues to be a huge issue we could see Federal law that would require ISP's to block access to torrents/illegal downloads.

I work in computer security and can tell you the tools exist right now to block torrents. Only issue I see is that there are legitimate uses for torrents as well, so they would need to refine the tools not to block potentially legal torrents vs illegal.

I suspect we are heading down this road and more ISP's are implementing methods to stop illegal torrents.
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post #192 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 02:14 PM
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Actually I just found this:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-57397452-261/riaa-chief-isps-to-start-policing-copyright-by-july-1/
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But during a panel discussion before a gathering of U.S. publishers here today, Cary Sherman, CEO of the Recording Industry Association of America, said most of the participating ISPs are on track to begin implementing the program by July 1.The program, commonly referred to as "graduated response," requires that ISPs send out one or two educational notices to those customers who are accused of downloading copyrighted content illegally. If the customer doesn't stop, the ISP is then asked to send out "confirmation notices" asking that they confirm they have received notice.

At that time, the accused customers will also be informed of the risks they incur if they don't stop pirating material. If the customer is flagged for pirating again, the ISP can then ratchet up the pressure. Participating ISPs can choose from a list of penalties, or what the RIAA calls "mitigation measures," which include throttling down the customer's connection speed and suspending Web access until the subscriber agrees to stop pirating.

The ISPs can waive the mitigation measure if they choose and not one of the service providers has agreed to permanently terminate service.

The partnership with the major bandwidth providers was years in the making and the deal pumped lots of confidence into the entertainment sector. After the White House and state and federal lawmakers showed support for the deal, leaders at the RIAA and Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) believed they had the momentum to get antipiracy legislation passed in Congress.

Supporters say this could become the most effective antipiracy program ever. Since ISPs are the Internet's gatekeepers, the theory is that network providers are in the best position to fight illegal file sharing. CNET broke the news last June that the RIAA and counterparts at the trade group for the big film studios, had managed to get the deal through--with the help of the White House.
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post #193 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by thxman View Post

I can confirm that this goes back further with Lions Gate. I first noticed this was with the Conan the Barbarian and Warrior. I can also confirm Abduction and Safe were the same.

I have rented Conan the Barbarian (the 2011 version) and Safe. Both had DTS-HD MA tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

but from what I know, it seems more difficult to track down individual users .. confused.gif

From what I understand, it is actually extremely easy to track you down if you are not careful. They send a list of IP addresses to your ISP and your ISP tracks you down. As simple as that. It doesn't help that whenever you open you P2P app to download, it advertises itself to the world that you are available to re-distribute whatever is in your public folder.
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post #194 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

I have rented Conan the Barbarian (the 2011 version) and Safe. Both had DTS-HD MA tracks.
.
Based on what is said? I know it says it has HD audio on the Disc, but they don't . When I pop them in and my D-Box does not start up, I know there is an issue and start going through all the audio options (on BD player). That is how I determine this. What is says on the disc is worthless. I had rental copies from Blockbuster if that matters, which it sounds like it does not.
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post #195 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Just nosing around some, I put together a short list of what seem to be the most commonly downgraded soundtracks ..

>Cabin in the Woods 9/18 DD 5.1 lossy
>What to Expect When You're Expecting 9/11 DD 5.1 lossy
>Good Will Hunting 8/21 DTS 5.1 lossy
>Freelancers 8/21 DD 5.1 lossy
>Hunger Games 8/18 DD 5.1 lossy
>Friends with Kids 7/28 Dolby Digital 5.1


Feel free to correct me or add any ..

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post #196 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thxman View Post

Based on what is said? I know it says it has HD audio on the Disc, but they don't . When I pop them in and my D-Box does not start up, I know there is an issue and start going through all the audio options (on BD player). That is how I determine this. What is says on the disc is worthless. I had rental copies from Blockbuster if that matters, which it sounds like it does not.

No, I always double check HD audio formats when I play the discs. I have no problem play DTS-HD MA tracks on those two discs from Netflix I mentioned.
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post #197 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 03:06 PM
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According to blu-ray.com, Reds retail disc is DD 5.1 as well. So this one does not count.
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post #198 of 1000 Old 09-28-2012, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

According to blu-ray.com, Reds retail disc is DD 5.1 as well. So this one does not count.

Good catch, edited

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post #199 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Per Dolby themselves (Roger Dressler posted this I believe back in 2007/2008).
Biggest jump in audio quality is from DD 448kbps to DD 640kbps
Another jump from DD 640kbps to DD+ 1.5Mbps
We could argue if there is even a noticeable jump from DD+ to TrueHD, but assuming there is, it would be the least noticeable. I don't think Roger ever really committed to this as he did not want to fan the flames at the time, but to say there is no jump from DVD DD (480kbps) to BD quality (640Kbps) would be wrong. More people would benefit from that gain than from DD+ to TrueHD.

This isn't quite the way it works:

There's a good quality jump between 448 & 640kbps DD due to the fact at 640kbps DD no longer needs to perform coupling operations and other perceptual coding tricks to achieve transparency to the source (never said there wasn't a difference).

There is *no* jump from DD/DD+ 640 and DD+ 1536. DD+ at 1536 was pure marketing for those concerned that DD was somehow inferior to DTS because it didn't require as large a bitrate. The things you learn at CES and talking to company reps in person...

TrueHD is lossless, DD+ is still lossy. DD+ was invented to free DD's limitation of 5.1 channels and to sound *better* at even lower bitrates, like 5.1 @256kbps.

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post #200 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 06:11 AM
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Due to this, I have actually started going back to the video rental stores(not blockbuster). The blu rays are "retail versions" and they come out on the release date. I picked up the Avengers last night, they even had 3d disk available. Granted its more expensive then netflix or redbox but I paid 3.50 for a new release blu ray and it was a retail version. After I watch some of the older movies in my queue, I will be canceling netflix.

It was a little nostalgic walking in a actual store, I haven't been in one for over 10 years, it used to be the Friday night tradition, get take out and rent a movie. I remember walking past the vhs and heading straight to the Laser disk section picking up the new releases that were all out on vhs.
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post #201 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 11:15 AM
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I really miss my Blockbuster and Hollywood Video stores. There's no rental store within 20 miles, and Redbox's selection when into the dumper about 6 months ago. I can never find anything there I want.
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post #202 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 11:30 AM
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We watched Hunger Games, which sucked, on Blu Ray from Netflix. No HD audio was a real bummer because the only redeeming quality about the movie was the sound. I could only imagine what the HD soundtrack must sound like.

However, I will NEVER buy this movie just to hear it.

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post #203 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 01:12 PM
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the way I see this "dillema" is very simple. You get what you paid for. You pay $2 for rental, you don't get as much as someone paying (say) $10-$20 purchasing the disc. Sound fair to me.

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post #204 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 02:17 PM
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But that's $2 a day.
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post #205 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 02:48 PM
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Battleship BR sounded OK in DTS-HD. Netflix, either the physical disc or streaming, amounts to a screening device for films that I was unwilling to see at the theater or something that I did see and wonder whether or not it is worth buying. So I am not disappointed if the audio is not lossless.
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post #206 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 04:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy761210 View Post

Due to this, I have actually started going back to the video rental stores(not blockbuster). The blu rays are "retail versions" and they come out on the release date. I picked up the Avengers last night, they even had 3d disk available. Granted its more expensive then netflix or redbox but I paid 3.50 for a new release blu ray and it was a retail version. After I watch some of the older movies in my queue, I will be canceling netflix.
It was a little nostalgic walking in a actual store, I haven't been in one for over 10 years, it used to be the Friday night tradition, get take out and rent a movie. I remember walking past the vhs and heading straight to the Laser disk section picking up the new releases that were all out on vhs.

Why don't you try renting The Hunger Games or Cabin In The Woods to see if your Blockbuster really does carry the retail version.
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post #207 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 07:21 PM
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I'm going to take the other side. I really don't see a problem with the studios giving the rental companies a version without the specials and without the HD audio. I am only paying 1-3 bucks for these rentals. Millions and millions of dollars go into making these movies and people want to pay almost nothing to see them. Everyone wants something for nothing but to think you DESERVE something is ridiculous, IMHO. I'm not sure why people think that they deserve all the bells and whistles without paying for them. Hey, it's nice that you CAN rent a movie for a buck or two. We should be happy about that. If we want the full theater experience then PAY for it. The artists, actors, directors, producers, marketers, editors, distributors etc... are not working for free.

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post #208 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 07:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DeadEd View Post

I'm going to take the other side. I really don't see a problem with the studios giving the rental companies a version without the specials and without the HD audio. I am only paying 1-3 bucks for these rentals. Millions and millions of dollars go into making these movies and people want to pay almost nothing to see them. Everyone wants something for nothing but to think you DESERVE something is ridiculous, IMHO. I'm not sure why people think that they deserve all the bells and whistles without paying for them. Hey, it's nice that you CAN rent a movie for a buck or two. We should be happy about that. If we want the full theater experience then PAY for it. The artists, actors, directors, producers, marketers, editors, distributors etc... are not working for free.

I don't disagree with what you are saying. I just think it's a slap in the face to the Videophile segment of the market . . . you know . . . the ones that got BD started on it's road to mass market status. Without them, there would be no HD Physical Media Market (READ: Higher margin product).
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post #209 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 08:27 PM
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Not only all that Lee... But seriously... How many more millions upon millions of dollars of profit do the studios really need to make? It's like the big banks all over again but in the blu ray market. biggrin.gif

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post #210 of 1000 Old 09-29-2012, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

Not only all that Lee... But seriously... How many more millions upon millions of dollars of profit do the studios really need to make? It's like the big banks all over again but in the blu ray market. biggrin.gif

With many large home video companies offloading their catalog product to 3rd parties how could you think that they're swimming in money?

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