NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio or TrueHD / DD 5.1 Instead - Page 44 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1291 of 1318 Unread 03-30-2017, 09:25 AM
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Maybe someone can enlighten me on this. Why does Lionsgate not include lossless audio on their rental discs. To my knowledge they are the only studio doing this. I'm guessing they produce one disc with all the bells and whistles for sale, and an inferior disc for rental. Wouldn't it make more sense financially to just make one disc for sale and for rental? The rental disc is probably 25GB and the sale disc could be more, but they would still have to purchase 2 discs instead of one for production. I realize other studios make rental only discs, but they include the lossless track. We as renters should get the same quality of disc as if we purchased it. Every other studio includes lossless audio on their discs and I don't think they are worse off financially.

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post #1292 of 1318 Unread 03-30-2017, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jay5298 View Post
Maybe someone can enlighten me on this. Why does Lionsgate not include lossless audio on their rental discs. To my knowledge they are the only studio doing this. I'm guessing they produce one disc with all the bells and whistles for sale, and an inferior disc for rental. Wouldn't it make more sense financially to just make one disc for sale and for rental? The rental disc is probably 25GB and the sale disc could be more, but they would still have to purchase 2 discs instead of one for production. I realize other studios make rental only discs, but they include the lossless track. We as renters should get the same quality of disc as if we purchased it. Every other studio includes lossless audio on their discs and I don't think they are worse of financially.
Pretty much this entire thread has covered that topic ad infinitum .. if you want the crib note version, LG believes, in many, not all, cases, this practice beefs up sales of the "full meal deal" .. cost wise, post-production, various versions of a disk can be produced with little work or cost .. these disks for rent are also sold by LG on spindle, there is no retail box ..

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post #1293 of 1318 Unread 03-30-2017, 10:22 AM
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Pretty much this entire thread has covered that topic ad infinitum .. if you want the crib note version, LG believes, in many, not all, cases, this practice beefs up sales of the "full meal deal" .. cost wise, post-production, various versions of a disk can be produced with little work or cost .. these disks for rent are also sold to LG on spindle, there is no retail box ..
I didn't mean to dig up an old topic, I just don't get why they still insist on doing this. Like I said, they are the only studio doing it. I rent quite a few movies and I can't remember the last time I rented a movie from another studio other than LG that didn't have lossless audio. Like you I have an above average system in my HT and I can live with lossy audio. It's the principle of it that makes me angry.
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post #1294 of 1318 Unread 03-30-2017, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't mean to dig up an old topic, I just don't get why they still insist on doing this. Like I said, they are the only studio doing it. I rent quite a few movies and I can't remember the last time I rented a movie from another studio other than LG that didn't have lossless audio. Like you I have an above average system in my HT and I can live with lossy audio. It's the principle of it that makes me angry.
Although I have not looked in a while, LG used to have a pretty extensive list of contacts and what not on their site .. you could do like some of us have and drop them a message / letter, expressing your dissatisfaction .. myself, I've never really been angry about it, I don't agree with the "suits" way of thinking, but perhaps they have some metric that proves the policy, who knows ..

https://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com/

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post #1295 of 1318 Unread 03-30-2017, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Jay5298 View Post
I didn't mean to dig up an old topic, I just don't get why they still insist on doing this. Like I said, they are the only studio doing it. I rent quite a few movies and I can't remember the last time I rented a movie from another studio other than LG that didn't have lossless audio. Like you I have an above average system in my HT and I can live with lossy audio. It's the principle of it that makes me angry.
It's not just the audio. The video bitrate is measurably lower too.
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post #1296 of 1318 Unread 03-30-2017, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post
Although I have not looked in a while, LG used to have a pretty extensive list of contacts and what not on their site .. you could do like some of us have and drop them a message / letter, expressing your dissatisfaction .. myself, I've never really been angry about it, I don't agree with the "suits" way of thinking, but perhaps they have some metric that proves the policy, who knows ..

https://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com/
Thanks for the link, I forgot about that option. Certain movies I don't really care if the audio is lossy, but for a movie like Hacksaw Ridge it would be nice to have the lossless track.
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post #1297 of 1318 Unread 03-30-2017, 12:46 PM
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It's not just the audio. The video bitrate is measurably lower too.
I didn't realize this, now I'm really mad.
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post #1298 of 1318 Unread 03-31-2017, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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It's not just the audio. The video bitrate is measurably lower too.
One of the theories is, if it is not possible to place a film on a single layer Blu Ray, LG will release the disk, including rentals, on a dual layer and not change anything .. i.e. the HD audio will be intact / no lower bitrate / etc .. if the film can be fitted on a single layer disk, the audio will be DD in order to help fit the disk ..

I have read snippets of posts on other Forums regarding video bitrate following the same type trend .. I've never actually seen any scientific proof of it .. although it makes sense .. what I have read is indications it was a very minor lesser bitrate, related, again, to fitting a film on a single layer disk ..

This also makes sense, from LG's standpoint, in that a dual layer BD, at wholesale, is likely around $3.50 - $4.00 .. where a single layer is likely under a buck ..

I am, of course, not defending LG .. but the question on why they do what they do comes up fairly often, and I can't remember if I posted this info previously ..
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post #1299 of 1318 Unread 03-31-2017, 02:45 PM
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One of the theories is, if it is not possible to place a film on a single layer Blu Ray, LG will release the disk, including rentals, on a dual layer and not change anything .. i.e. the HD audio will be intact / no lower bitrate / etc .. if the film can be fitted on a single layer disk, the audio will be DD in order to help fit the disk ..
That's believable. Dual-layer disc for retail, with extras, full bitrate video & audio. For rental, rip out the extras, and if it's only a little bigger than 25GB, downgrade the audio and video just enough to fit.

But it would surprise me if the decision to downgrade a particular title is entirely a technical one.
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I watched Patriot's Day (from Netflix) this weekend and while it had only DD 5.1 (instead of DTS:X), I thought it was a pretty engaging soundtrack.

The one time that I distinctly noticed a huge hit for PQ/AQ was on the first Divergent movie, where the lower bitrate video encode left horrible banding all throughout the movie (looked almost as bad as Superman Returns).

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post #1301 of 1318 Unread 04-11-2017, 09:08 AM
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If anyone gets the skinny on Rogue One drop a note!


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That's believable. Dual-layer disc for retail, with extras, full bitrate video & audio. For rental, rip out the extras, and if it's only a little bigger than 25GB, downgrade the audio and video just enough to fit.

But it would surprise me if the decision to downgrade a particular title is entirely a technical one.
In my experience these "lossy" only rental versions are purely an attempt to encourage the purchase of the retail copy in order to experience the lossless track. Two recent examples are "Hacksaw Ridge" and "Patriots Day", both dual-layer discs, both DD 5.1 only, the video alone for each well over 25 GB. Hacksaw Ridge weighed in at 36 GB, Patriots Day at 28.6 GB.
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post #1303 of 1318 Unread 04-11-2017, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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In my experience these "lossy" only rental versions are purely an attempt to encourage the purchase of the retail copy in order to experience the lossless track.
That's been the consensus since the Thread started ..

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If anyone gets the skinny on Rogue One drop a note!
Redbox rental is DTS-HD MA 7.1, in all its glory.
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I'm glad I found this thread. I too got burned a month ago when I rented Hacksaw Ridge. I was pissed of the quality and sound. I guess it's a good thing it's only Lionsgate being jerks!

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Redbox rental is DTS-HD MA 7.1, in all its glory.
Awesome, thanks man!


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So when will Redbox offer 4k UHDBR? Soon or when h3LL freezes?


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So when will Redbox offer 4k UHDBR? Soon or when h3LL freezes?


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I'm going with never. Too costly and not enough adopters.


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You can also blame Redbox for buying those discs instead of the retail discs, can't you?

... and yeah, Rogue One is the retail disc.
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You can also blame Redbox for buying those discs instead of the retail discs, can't you?

... and yeah, Rogue One is the retail disc.
Thread Title :: "NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio or TrueHD / DD 5.1 Instead"

There is no compelling reason NF / RB should offer UHD Disks .. if BD had taken over, then maybe .. however, since DVD still outsells BD as well as the trend in physical disk sales being a downward trend, adding UHD to simply offer it to a small user base makes no Business sense ..

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Thread Title :: "NetFlix RedBox BD's Without DTS-HD Master Audio or TrueHD / DD 5.1 Instead"



There is no compelling reason NF / RB should offer UHD Disks .. if BD had taken over, then maybe .. however, since DVD still outsells BD as well as the trend in physical disk sales being a downward trend, adding UHD to simply offer it to a small user base makes no Business sense ..

Just call me "that guy" who posts other topics in a thread
I've posted here 10 or so times , and over 5k total AVS, so I get 1 off topic rant per 10 value added posts.
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Just call me "that guy" who posts other topics in a thread
I've posted here 10 or so times , and over 5k total AVS, so I get 1 off topic rant per 10 value added posts.
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Oh, I think your posts are on topic .. I simply answered your question(s) ..

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Anyone know if 'The girl with all the gifts' is only in DD from Redbox? Given it is Lionsgate I am thinking it is.
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Anyone know if 'The girl with all the gifts' is only in DD from Redbox? Given it is Lionsgate I am thinking it is.
On a wide search, I don't find this title in anything but DVD .. is RB even offering a BD .. ??

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On a wide search, I don't find this title in anything but DVD .. is RB even offering a BD .. ??
I saw it on their app last night.

Edit - I don't see it now. I must have either read it wrong or they changed it

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"La La Land" is a Lionsgate title and does not offer the Atmos soundtrack rental from Netflix. I purchased the 4K of it anyhow.
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"La La Land" is a Lionsgate title and does not offer the Atmos soundtrack rental from Netflix. I purchased the 4K of it anyhow.
I guess I'll be listening to the DD 5.1 track with DSU tonight then.

I found the DD track on Patriot's Day to be quite good.

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I guess I'll be listening to the DD 5.1 track with DSU tonight then.

I found the DD track on Patriot's Day to be quite good.
Just reporting back that the DD 5.1 on La La Land was pretty decent. There was some mild unintelligibly on the opening song, but it sounded more or less inherent to the source. Otherwise everything sounded perfectly clear with acceptable bass output and levels. DSU did an OK job, but there wasn't much that really called for overhead sounds anyway.

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