The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:02 PM
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OK... So I just finishing watching the hobbitt on my home theater. I saw it with one of my daughters in the theater but, probably because that theter doesn;t have good bass anyway, I never noticed the weak LFE. My wife never saw the movie so she got REALLY annoyed when I kept stopping to turn the sub up on my player (oppo95 directly to amps/sub). I'd turn it up to where the sub started to affect dialogue. After the rock fight scene I stopped to wiggle the cables, figured for sure something was wrong. Turned the sub back down to normal and watched the rest of it, have to admit the sound track was good but the lack of LFE was very annoying, I honestly thought something had happened. I stuck Prometheus in afterward to see and sure enought the bass was there.
I googled "the hobbit weak bass" and found this string...
All I can say is that the LFE is definately fubar on this mix. Especially after seeing the graphs posted in the string, I think the guys sticking up for the bass must have low end systems/subs and do no know what deep bass sounds or feels like. The giant mountain fight was ridiculous, it was distracting that there was so little bass. I'm so surprised I'm even wondering if this is a ploy to get people to buy the extnded version, with LFE fixed...
I'm not a bass head, I prefer a natural extension with no boominess. But I haven't heard a new movie with such a pathetic LFE channel before.

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Old 04-13-2013, 10:10 PM
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All I can say is that the LFE is definately fubar on this mix. Especially after seeing the graphs posted in the string, I think the guys sticking up for the bass must have low end systems/subs and do no know what deep bass sounds or feels like. The giant mountain fight was ridiculous, it was distracting that there was so little bass. I'm so surprised I'm even wondering if this is a ploy to get people to buy the extnded version, with LFE fixed...
I'm not a bass head, I prefer a natural extension with no boominess. But I haven't heard a new movie with such a pathetic LFE channel before.

Did it seriously distract you from watching the movie? I'm not against bass - I have three large DIY subs for proof that I love bass. However, I find it probably more annoying when there is an overabundance of unnecessary bass. THAT distracts me from the movie. Well done bass, however...like when a jet plane flies overhead and you can feel it, or a heartbeat in a suspense movie that you can literally feel. Those things add to the movie without being distracting. Lack of LFE in the Hobbit was mildly disappointing, but it certainly didn't distract me from enjoying the movie. Like you did, people can always turn up the bass if it really bothers them. Much like I can always turn down the bass in a movie with overcooked bass.

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Old 04-13-2013, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Did it seriously distract you from watching the movie? I'm not against bass - I have three large DIY subs for proof that I love bass. However, I find it probably more annoying when there is an overabundance of unnecessary bass. THAT distracts me from the movie. Well done bass, however...like when a jet plane flies overhead and you can feel it, or a heartbeat in a suspense movie that you can literally feel. Those things add to the movie without being distracting. Lack of LFE in the Hobbit was mildly disappointing, but it certainly didn't distract me from enjoying the movie. Like you did, people can always turn up the bass if it really bothers them. Much like I can always turn down the bass in a movie with overcooked bass.

You cant turn up the bass that is not there to begin with though. I understand exactly what he is saying. When two massive rock giants are bashing into each other and the low end does not support the on screen action, or a dragon stomping around or a number of other scenes fall flat, it is distracting because the audio does not fully support the action.

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Old 04-13-2013, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Did it seriously distract you from watching the movie? I'm not against bass - I have three large DIY subs for proof that I love bass. However, I find it probably more annoying when there is an overabundance of unnecessary bass. THAT distracts me from the movie. Well done bass, however...like when a jet plane flies overhead and you can feel it, or a heartbeat in a suspense movie that you can literally feel. Those things add to the movie without being distracting. Lack of LFE in the Hobbit was mildly disappointing, but it certainly didn't distract me from enjoying the movie. Like you did, people can always turn up the bass if it really bothers them. Much like I can always turn down the bass in a movie with overcooked bass.


I am curious as to which movies you find an "overabundance" of bass? Examples please if you can? It's not a question of whether the viewer is distracted from the movie as that is why we watch them to begin with. It's the fact that the low end in the movie takes away from the realism because you know it should be there to "enhance" the movie experience.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Did it seriously distract you from watching the movie? I'm not against bass - I have three large DIY subs for proof that I love bass. However, I find it probably more annoying when there is an overabundance of unnecessary bass. THAT distracts me from the movie. Well done bass, however...like when a jet plane flies overhead and you can feel it, or a heartbeat in a suspense movie that you can literally feel. Those things add to the movie without being distracting. Lack of LFE in the Hobbit was mildly disappointing, but it certainly didn't distract me from enjoying the movie. Like you did, people can always turn up the bass if it really bothers them. Much like I can always turn down the bass in a movie with overcooked bass.

It did distract me, actually I'd go further and call it annoying. Very much so with my reaction to start trying to turn the sub up looking for bass. I knew it had to be the recording but couldn;t believe it would be so far out of whack. I checked the sub levels, checked the cables for an end coming loose, checked to see the kids hadn't messed with the dials on the sub, etc. My wife hadn;t seen the movie so she was pretty annoyed with me...
I've noticed that movies seem to be going through the same thing that cds went through a few years ago, with cds ruinging sound quality by mixing too loud, and movies mixing too much bass into some movies. This makes it hard to set up a system and leave it. I like clean non-boomy bass that blends naturally into the mains, where the sub disappears until you turn it off and notice the bottom end gone, or when a strong scene plays (like rock giants fighting, a dragon stompiong around, or a fat troll with a goiter slamming a big hammer down).
I don;t think I should have to mess with adjustments to enjoy a movie, and in any case, I did try boosting the sub by 5dB, and the non-LFE bass (center and mains set to small) became overbearing, colouring svocals and other sound below my 80Hz crossover. I had to turn it back. Oddly, except for the LFE the sound was top notch.
As for movies with too much LFE there are a few but I prefer that to anemic bass as long as it isn;t done stupidly... doors closing with big thumps when it doesn't fit the mood, some gunshots thundering where other smaller guns are weak (ex the first Kate Beckinsale lycan/vampire movie), etc.
I chose my sub based on it being known for clean, tight bass and I'm every happy with it, and it's in a 2000ft3 room so it has tons of head room to handle crazy scenes like Prometheus , Hurt Locker, etc. (and those bass scenes fit the movie). Nothing can make up for issues like filtered out low bass, I'm pissed about this movie. I actually would not have bought it if I had known how anemic it was because I was very very distracted by it.
It was like eating a delicious roast turkey dinner with spoiled cranberry sauce, when you wanted the cranberry you got a sour taste that took a few bites of the good food to get the bad taste out, only to be repeat the cycle again next time you want the cranberry. wink.gif

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Old 04-14-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

I do not recall how the mix was when I saw it in HFR3D, seemed fine; however I do remember TDKR as being painful and obnoxious in IMAX and attributed that to the particular theater but the BR is the same.

I watched the Smaug scene on both BD and DVD and the DVD is the same mix as the DTS-HD MA but with less precision and clarity.

It has mid-range bass, which fooled me, but as you mentioned prior, Toe, not much going on in the deep end. There are moments of action that seem would have benefited from bass reinforcement but was not utilized, either due to the filter or simply the intentions of the original mix. It is an odd scenario given the prior films.

Wasn't this originally mixed for Dolby Atmos? If so perhaps the LFE channel was not properly ported to the home mix.

Best Regards
KvE

I saw the Atmos/HFR version as well and am wondering if they turned down the LFE to accentuate the Atmos surrounds angle?
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

AFAIK, the Atmos mix was going on simulaneously as the theatrical using the 7.1 automation as a starting point..

"Oblivion" will be the first film where the main "final" mix was in Atmos, and then downconverted from there for the 5 and 7.I just finished my first film in the format and really like it... lot's of potential, and it's really fun to have overhead speakers finally. :coolers finally. cool.gif

Looking forwad to this!!

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I suspect the LFE channel is missing. More to come.

Very interesting...purposeful?


Oh yeah, what Toe said...biggrin.gif

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Old 04-15-2013, 12:47 AM
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I am curious as to which movies you find an "overabundance" of bass? Examples please if you can? It's not a question of whether the viewer is distracted from the movie as that is why we watch them to begin with. It's the fact that the low end in the movie takes away from the realism because you know it should be there to "enhance" the movie experience.

Sure. Bear in mind these movies are ones I have in my collection, so I love them. I also love bass. But there are some scenes where I'm thinking, "wow, is it really necessary to have THAT much bass?" I also disagree with your last two sentences. Bass should not distract, but augment the experience seamlessly. If I'm thinking, "wtf, that is insane bass!!!" during said scene, it's probably too much.

1. Skyfall - subway crash. Awesome, but ridiculous amounts of bass.

2. Super 8 - loved it, but too much bass.

3. Inception - kick scene. I mean, really. Dude was falling into water, how much bass do you need for that?

Now, these are my opinions, so I don't really give a rip what others think. As for the Hobbit, of course it lacks bass in the obvious places. But I'm not going to ban it from my collection because of that. I've watched Skyfall more than a handful of times and I've gotten over the fact that the bass is overcooked in some scenes. As for those who feel burned by the Hobbit, maybe they'll hear your cries and pump up the bass for the extended versions.

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Old 04-15-2013, 11:01 AM
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rolleyes.gif Why would you buy a half-assed product? Thats like buying a 8 cylinder car just to find out they "forgot" to hook up the two remaining cylinder. But thats ok, the dealership said you don't need those other two anyway and that's all you need! Right????? rolleyes.gif

I was right thinking not to buy any of these Hobbit films till all 3 are released on the super duper Walkathon Extended version in 2015. Maybe, and just MAYBE the sound will be right then.

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Old 04-15-2013, 12:20 PM
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rolleyes.gif Why would you buy a half-assed product? Thats like buying a 8 cylinder car just to find out they "forgot" to hook up the two remaining cylinder. But thats ok, the dealership said you don't need those other two anyway and that's all you need! Right????? rolleyes.gif

Not a good analogy. Nowhere did the Hobbit boast uber bass (8 cylinders) and fail deliver the goods. It is what it is. Sucks that you're missing out, though - I've watched it three times already and each time I find it pretty amazing.

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Old 04-15-2013, 12:52 PM
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I didn't notice any lack of bass while viewing the film. It sounded quite natural to me. I'll pay closer attention next time I watch it.
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:45 PM
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I thought the audio was pretty good, including the base. Nice use of the surrounds. One thing I did notice was that my sub (JL Audio) didn't kick on initially when the movie started to play. Never had that happen, since it's a pretty sensitive sub. Doesn't take much to kick it on. Switching inputs on my Krell processor didn't even work. I had to pause the movie and hit play again to initiate the base. Little strange.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Not a good analogy. Nowhere did the Hobbit boast uber bass (8 cylinders) and fail deliver the goods. It is what it is. Sucks that you're missing out, though - I've watched it three times already and each time I find it pretty amazing.


Maybe the actual case did not boast this type of expectation, but plenty of mainstream reviewers did. Plenty of buyers put enough faith in these reviews to push them toward a purchase and when the product then fails to deliver in one or more areas (LFE in this case), it is only natural to feel a bit cheated and let down IMO.

I think one reason I am so disappointed is this is the type of movie for me that the technical experience makes or breaks since I was very ho-hum about the film itself. There are plenty of average films for me like The Hobbit that I still have a blast with in the HT since the technical presentation is so solid, but when the ball is dropped in a critical area it makes the purchase a bit disappointing IMO.

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Old 04-15-2013, 08:40 PM
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I too noticed the LFE had less punch than I imagined it should have. I still enjoyed the mix though. I didn't get up and check my sub like others have mentioned. A movie that I did check my sub however was Life Of Pi. It was visually stunning and a great movie but The Hobbit sounded like The Dark Knight Rises in comparison.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:02 PM
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I think one reason I am so disappointed is this is the type of movie for me that the technical experience makes or breaks since I was very ho-hum about the film itself. There are plenty of average films for me like The Hobbit that I still have a blast with in the HT since the technical presentation is so solid, but when the ball is dropped in a critical area it makes the purchase a bit disappointing IMO.

Fair enough. I've sat through some films that are rather meh, but the PQ and AQ were amazing. Battleship comes to mind, but damn that movie was craptacular.

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Old 06-18-2013, 08:04 PM
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I haven't read the thread, but am I the only one who doesn't think the video quality is spectacular? Yes, it's excellent, but it only averages about 20 mbps, which is mediocre. What gives? Seems like it should be more like about 30 mbps.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:07 PM
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I haven't read the thread, but am I the only one who doesn't think the video quality is spectacular? Yes, it's excellent, but it only averages about 20 mbps, which is mediocre. What gives? Seems like it should be more like about 30 mbps.

Yes, you're the only one. Seriously, though, I thought some of the darker scenes lacked sharpness, but the rest of it seemed quite good. I wouldn't throw it in as a reference for PQ, but I definitely would show off a few 3D scenes as reference. It truly is meant to be seen in 3D. Everyone that has come to my house to see it was blown away by the level of immersion that the 3D brought forth.

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Old 06-21-2013, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by blastermaster View Post

Yes, you're the only one. Seriously, though, I thought some of the darker scenes lacked sharpness, but the rest of it seemed quite good. I wouldn't throw it in as a reference for PQ, but I definitely would show off a few 3D scenes as reference. It truly is meant to be seen in 3D. Everyone that has come to my house to see it was blown away by the level of immersion that the 3D brought forth.
What display device are you using. I saw this in 3-d with the high frame rate and was not that impressed (with the 3-d, I loved the film) but I was on vacation and not using a theater that would be my first choice. Perhaps the 3-d was better than i thought.

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Old 06-23-2013, 02:53 PM
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What display device are you using. I saw this in 3-d with the high frame rate and was not that impressed (with the 3-d, I loved the film) but I was on vacation and not using a theater that would be my first choice. Perhaps the 3-d was better than i thought.

Optoma HD3300 DLP projector projecting onto a ~138" 2.35:1 DIY curved screen using Seymour XD Centerstage acoustically transparent material and a Home Theater Bros anamorphic lens with the chromatic correction element. Run on sentence? I think so. I sit 13 feet away from the screen and there were moments of awesomeness in this movie in terms of 3D (the eagles scene, for example). Other times, the 3D was either just decent or my eyes simply adjusted to the moderate level of 3D.

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Old 06-23-2013, 04:43 PM
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I'm watching in 2D, and I maintain that while the picture is generally excellent, it is not spectacularly good (i.e. demo worthy). I suspect the low bitrate (only around 20 mbps) is the primary reason.
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:06 PM
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I recently watched this again on my brothers 110" screen, Benq 1080ST, Aura Bass Shakers hooked up to Apollo chairs, and again we were expecting some good shakes in the seats from the Rock Giant battle....We received a little hum and after plenty of adjustments and a demo with Jurassic Park, the LFE is just barely in there on the Hobbit. Hope they do fix this in their future release. No matter how good visually, I still wanted that little extra from the LFE channel.

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Old 06-27-2013, 05:16 PM
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Some spoilers of the content that will fill up the extended edition.

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Old 06-27-2013, 05:41 PM
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And here I thought the theatrical version had some major directorial self indulgence going on!

I'll just hold out for a good release of The Lord of the Rings Extended Trilogy as that's the one I'll buy. The Hobbit was IMHO a joyless ride.

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Old 06-27-2013, 11:07 PM
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The Hobbit was IMHO a joyless ride.

Sadly I felt the same way.

Are they seriously doing an extended edition of this mess? How could they possibly shoehorn MORE unnecessary crap into this grueling film?
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:15 PM
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Now "The Hobbit: a Never-Ending Journey".

That Saturday Night Live skit was right on the money. No wonder they are flogging the current Bluray cheap.
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Old 07-01-2013, 04:13 PM
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i personally really loved it.
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Old 07-01-2013, 05:32 PM
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Level of expectation, I suppose. Knowing the way Jackson makes his movies, and knowing that they were going to "fill out" the story, what I saw in the theater was pretty much exactly what I expected to see, and I'm perfectly fine with that.
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Old 07-01-2013, 06:54 PM
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Yeah, I'm perfectly fine with them filling out the story too. As soon as I heard The Hobbit was going to be made I was hoping it would be a long drawn out trilogy and be just as good or better than LOTR. Well, I got the long drawn out trilogy part but, so far, it's not as good as LOTR. I think it's a great movie though and I'm hoping it will get better and better but LOTR sets the bar pretty high.

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Old 07-01-2013, 08:51 PM
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Because an adaptation of a 310 page children's story is clearly as deserving of the same runtime as a three-volume, 1452 page epic fantasy novel.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:05 AM
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It doesn't need to be as deserving, only deserving enough. And enough people are interested in multiple hobbit movies to make it so.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

I suspect the LFE channel is missing. More to come.
Was there any update on this? I haven't seen one, sorry if I missed it.

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