The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 357 Old 03-23-2013, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cashflagg View Post

Not exactly. Even at 48fps, there is still a degree of motion blur present in each frame which leads to the information in the following adjacent frame. If you simply remove every other frame, the motion blur will not marry well from frame to frame and you'd get something akin to the "Saving Private Ryan" high shutter speed effect.

The 48fps version would have had to have been downconverted to 24fps using software that essentially blends pairs of frames together.

Here you can read about the editing process. http://www.definitionmagazine.com/journal/2013/2/19/winning-the-frame-game.html

(from under the second large picture)
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Converting 48fps to 24fps was done simply by discarding every other frame, a process called ‘disentangling’ (which is also what it is called when you extract a 2D video file from a 3D one where the image for both eyes is recorded one after the other in the same stream. Because it is effectively the same thing).”
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post #182 of 357 Old 03-24-2013, 04:26 AM
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Wow. I stand corrected! I know PJ was discussing "frame blending" during production. I guess they dropped the idea. From your linked article:

“Many frame blending tests were done with different systems, but we tended to like the results we got from simply discarding every other frame.”
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post #183 of 357 Old 03-24-2013, 08:16 AM
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Most films are actually shot with a shutter angle of 1/48 of a second. A 1/24 a second shutter causes too much motion blur. This means if you shoot at 24 frames with a 1/48 shutter, the shutter covers up the frame for half that time. Most films have been shot this way so it has become what we percieve as normal. It is only varied for effect but usually to a higher shutter angle ala Saving Private Ryan. If you shoot at 48 fps with a 1/48 shutter and discard every other frame to get 24 fps, you are still getting the same amount of motion blur as if it were shot at 24 frames originally.
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post #184 of 357 Old 03-24-2013, 08:59 AM
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The Hobbit was shot with 270 degree shutterangel which should be the same as 1/64sec.
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post #185 of 357 Old 03-24-2013, 09:43 AM
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Yup, they picked a value that was in between 1/48 and 1/96, so it would look right regardless.

I've used the interpolation feature of my TV to bring it more in line with what I saw in the theater. The options allow me to activate smoothing, but to NOT remove motion blur (which it wants to do by default, since you would normally do that on a 24fps source). That reduces the number of artifacts that I get significantly, but there are still parts of the frame that move too far for the system to track, so it's far from perfect.

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post #186 of 357 Old 03-24-2013, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

same for me. I hated every horrible second of the 48fps awfulness of this movie.
Well it appears that how ever they filmed it gives the movie a slight video like look even on the 2D blu-ray.
Definitely does not look like film. Not that's bad but compared to the LOTR trilogy, The Hobbit looks digital(video like). Almost like film interpolation is on low at all times.

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post #187 of 357 Old 03-24-2013, 12:00 PM
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It was shot digitally, so it would never look like film...

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post #188 of 357 Old 03-24-2013, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Vertigo View Post

It was shot digitally, so it would never look like film...


true. It looks great on my setup - crisp, clear vibrant images. but some scenes - like the ones in Radagast's forest, feel like detail is missing. Almost like DNR was applied. Which obviously didnt happen because video has no grain to begin with. But the old LOTR movies seem to have a nice feel with grain. it gave it grit.

It put the 'earth' in middle-earth!! biggrin.gif

but dang..all that gold in the erebor mountain...absolutely lush.

and lady galadriel will always look good in any format, on any screen, with any encoding!! biggrin.gif

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post #189 of 357 Old 03-24-2013, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

Well it appears that how ever they filmed it gives the movie a slight video like look even on the 2D blu-ray.
Definitely does not look like film. Not that's bad but compared to the LOTR trilogy, The Hobbit looks digital(video like). Almost like film interpolation is on low at all times.
That is done on purpose. Jackson wanted to have the look of "a window into Middle Earth". That means utilising all the pixels. sharpness and clarity and not degrade the image to get the usual "film look".

If Jackson had been able to shoot LOTR in 70mm as he intended, I believe LOTR would have looked rather different than it does.
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Originally Posted by Johnny Vertigo View Post

It was shot digitally, so it would never look like film...
Film isn't Film anymore. Film is just another "analogue sensor".
Film is immediately scanned after the negative is developed. Then all post production treatment is done in the digital domain in the same way as digital shot movies.
Even the Film prints for cinemas that are not converted into digital projection are printed to film from the digital source, and not as a copy from the film negatives like was normal before.
Film is dead as a medium and is just another way of capture images.
Few people today would be able to see the difference between film captures and digital captures in a blind test.
Film advantages and disadvantages; Nicer roll-off to highlights, grain and low light sensitivity.
Digital; Clean and grainless, higher light sensitivity, clipping towards highlights.

Give Digital some more years and it will surpass film in all ways. Camera makers just have to discover that they have to increase Camera sensor resolution much much more to have more resolution to down-sample from.
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post #190 of 357 Old 03-24-2013, 01:36 PM
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Part of it may have to do with the reduction in the amount of traditional depth of field (now that they can use actual depth through 3D). Another thing that's shared with what people define as "low-end video" cameras with infinity lenses. That's the thing with a lot of 3D films these days, especially those that are shot natively... they're meant to be viewed that way. I'm pretty sure the only times I'll ever watch this film in 2D will be when I'm over at a friend's place or something, watching it on hardware that's not 3D-capable.

Most of the complaints I see have to do with "It doesn't look how I want it to look". I hate to break this to you, but that's not up to you. The film looks the way the director intended. If you don't like it, don't watch it. It really is as simple as that. No one's forcing you at gunpoint to go to the theater or to pick up the Blu-ray.

Coolscan: I have to disagree with you on the sensor resolution. A lot of camera makers these days are doing nothing but throwing more pixels at the problem, which doesn't actually help anything. They need the sensors to be able to capture full HDR images (at once, not the multi-frame thing they're doing now), something I'm fairly sure they can't do yet. Film will always have the advantage until they can get that sorted.. a piece of film will have detail in the brightest highlights and the darkest shadows, all captured in a single instant. Just because they crop most of that out during the digital process before we see it doesn't mean it's not important.

Bigger pixels, more accurate pixels, not simply more pixels.

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post #191 of 357 Old 03-24-2013, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post


Coolscan: I have to disagree with you on the sensor resolution. A lot of camera makers these days are doing nothing but throwing more pixels at the problem, which doesn't actually help anything.
That has been the mantra for some years, most in reference to smaller pixel=more noise. Now with increasing better noise control, the big pixels=better isn't so true anymore.
Quote:
They need the sensors to be able to capture full HDR images (at once, not the multi-frame thing they're doing now), something I'm fairly sure they can't do yet. Film will always have the advantage until they can get that sorted.. a piece of film will have detail in the brightest highlights and the darkest shadows, all captured in a single instant. Just because they crop most of that out during the digital process before we see it doesn't mean it's not important.
They would be able to do that today if they could record more data of the sensor faster, but there are still limits to sensor data capture speeds.
One solution is more and smaller pixels and let the RAW converter algorithms figure out where the extra pixels should be utilised. With increasing dynamic range of CMOS sensors (18-20 stops of DR) the problem will solve itself.
Other solutions in the development stages are RGB+White pixels. This makes it possible to have a black&white image part of the sensor solely for grayscale values.
Also some works on new non-Bayer patterns are being done.
Quote:
Bigger pixels, more accurate pixels, not simply more pixels.
Sadly the big limit to big pixels are the limit to sensor size because of the limit to the coverage of lenses.
For digital film cameras that limit is reached before the stills/DSLR cameras because the lenses used have been developed for S-35mm cine film.
Or else I am shure companies like Red and Sony would have wanted to use larger sensor closer to Medium format/15perf.70mm/Imax size. But that would mean 100 years of optical development of Cine lenses would not have been possible to use on those cameras.

There are also a lot of work on different techs for better pixel accuracies. Here is one example; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XPec2EaBSSM

One reason high quality stills look so good on our 2 megapixel HD displays are because high downsample rate, like image capture of 15-25 megapixel from DSLR downsampled to 2 megapixel and displayed.
Now when future display target will be 4K at 8 megapixel, the sensors pixel counts has to increase proportionally.

Lately some camera manufacturers have been able for the first time to play with really high megapixel sensors and find that an abundance of pixels has several benefits they haven't thought too much about previously, like being able to drop OLPF or make it very weak, and to have the full megapixel count for target display (like 4K display) for each color channel also has benefits.
8MP for each Red+2xGreen+Blue colorchannel would give 30-40MP for downsample to 4K/8MP and will give better image quality than 4K sensor for 4K display.
For digital film cameras it is not higher than 20MP for 4K delivery, at the moment.

With improved sensor technologies, many more and smaller pixels have great benefit over fewer and larger pixels. It just take some time before they reach the market.
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post #192 of 357 Old 03-24-2013, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

They need the sensors to be able to capture full HDR images (at once, not the multi-frame thing they're doing now), something I'm fairly sure they can't do yet.

Actually, the RED EPIC's have an HDRx mode that extends dynamic range to around 18 stops. The EPIC has a native DR of 13 stops. I'm uncertain if this can be achieved at 48fps, but having dealt with some of HDRx footage myself, I can attest to not only the dynamic range increase but also the lack of any ghosting (meaning that the same frame is recorded for each exposure). It can work wonders for some shots, but at this point the workflow is far too cumbersome to shoot a whole movie like that.

I picked up the Wal-Mart special edtion book version of The Hobbit yesterday and it looks phenomenal. While it's true that many shots don't exactly look like film, it doesn't look quite like video either. I think it has a lot to do with the color grade that was done. It does look fantastic and the detail is impressive, especially facial detail. I've read a few complaints about soft shots and smooth facial details, but what I see on the 2D Bluray looks exactly as it did in the cinema in 2D. They definitely did some skin-smoothing/de-aging on a few of the actors (Ian Holm and Elijah Wood were the most notable to me), but I felt it was done tastefully and judiciously.

I will agree the the LFE track was a bit lackluster, but honestly I felt the soundtrack was extremely well-balanced both at the the theater and at home. There is most certainly punch where there needs to be. Then again, I never focus solely on LFE when watching a movie. I do enjoy some gut-busting LFE now and again, but I think most movies over-cook it these days.

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post #193 of 357 Old 03-25-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brad View Post

While it's true that many shots don't exactly look like film, it doesn't look quite like video either.

Got to watch the 2D blu-ray last night, and that was my reaction as well. It did look different than a normal 24fps blu-ray, the lessened motion blur was pretty apparent. But I greatly preferred it to my HFR experience in the theater. I really wish I could see a 2D 48FPS version for reference.
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post #194 of 357 Old 03-27-2013, 09:59 PM
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Does anyone know if the two 3D discs in the Hobbit set are region free?
Has anybody had any trouble at all with the 3D discs?

Reason I ask is I just received my U.S copy yesterday and neither of the two 3D discs will play on my region B Panasonic 3D Blu-ray player.
Strangely the two 2D Blu-ray discs in the set play perfectly.
Listings elsewhere say it's region free, but I'm wondering if anyone checked the 3D discs.

My TV detects a 3D signal and the little animated disc spins around until the screen goes black and the player's digital display sticks on zero.
If it was one disc I'd think it was faulty, but 2 faulty discs seem unlikely.
Normally a non region free disc will display the reason it will not play, but this has me stumped.

I can't really do anything about selling or returning the discs until I find out what the problem is.

I have over seventy 3D discs in my collection and have never before had an issue like this.

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post #195 of 357 Old 03-28-2013, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Bull View Post

Does anyone know if the two 3D discs in the Hobbit set are region free?
Has anybody had any trouble at all with the 3D discs?

Reason I ask is I just received my U.S copy yesterday and neither of the two 3D discs will play on my region B Panasonic 3D Blu-ray player.
Strangely the two 2D Blu-ray discs in the set play perfectly.
Listings elsewhere say it's region free, but I'm wondering if anyone checked the 3D discs.

My TV detects a 3D signal and the little animated disc spins around until the screen goes black and the player's digital display sticks on zero.
If it was one disc I'd think it was faulty, but 2 faulty discs seem unlikely.
Normally a non region free disc will display the reason it will not play, but this has me stumped.

I can't really do anything about selling or returning the discs until I find out what the problem is.

I have over seventy 3D discs in my collection and have never before had an issue like this.

Doug.

I suggest you go to the owners thread of your Panasonic player and try to figure out if it's a settings or connection problem.


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post #196 of 357 Old 03-28-2013, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
My TV detects a 3D signal and the little animated disc spins around until the screen goes black and the player's digital display sticks on zero.
If it was one disc I'd think it was faulty, but 2 faulty discs seem unlikely.
Normally a non region free disc will display the reason it will not play, but this has me stumped.

My disc 2 was doing the same thing (disc 1 was fine). My 3D was triggered but all I was getting was a black screen. I was just about to take it back when I decided to just try some buttons on my player. I pressed play and, voila, it worked. I don't know what the problem was.

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post #197 of 357 Old 03-28-2013, 04:14 PM
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Thanks for the replies and help guys.

After about 20 tries I finally got Disc 1 to play twice, but after a similar amount of tries disc 2 will not work at all.
Unfortunately after the 2 successful start-ups disc 1 still continues to fail most times.
I've tried every trick I can think of.

At least I now know it's not a region thing.

The discs are either faulty or my Panasonic DMP-BDT300 player needs an update.

I only watched about 5 minutes on one of the successful start-ups and what I saw looked amazing.
Sharpness and detail was superb.
The 3D effect was sensational ( I have over seventy 3D discs and this one looks to be up with the very best of them)

Now if I can only get both discs to work every time, maybe I'll get to watch and enjoy The Hobbit how it is meant to be seen, in 3D of course.

Doug.
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post #198 of 357 Old 03-28-2013, 06:24 PM
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To all those that showed concern and offered help, I can now say that the problem of the non playing 3D discs has been solved.

A simple firmware update seems to have fixed everything.
Both discs are now working every time
Amazingly the Panasonic player update was Windows only and yet my Apple accepted the information and burnt a successful CD update disc.

Now I can watch THE HOBBIT in spectacular 3D.
I'm a happy camper.

Doug.
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post #199 of 357 Old 03-28-2013, 08:22 PM
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Is the LFE track on this one sold separately?

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

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post #200 of 357 Old 03-28-2013, 08:51 PM
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Is the LFE track on this one sold separately?

Hey man......if you find it, will you send me a copy?

biggrin.gif

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post #201 of 357 Old 03-29-2013, 03:21 PM
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Interesting views on the theatrical presentation of this movie.

For the record, I am 47 and like HFR. All to often I find the images in 24 frame "off" in some way. Fast pans are often a blurred mess and really sharp images seem to be rare at best. HFR changes all that and produces sharper images with lovely clear fast pans. I have never been persuaded that motion blur is a particularly desirable quality in a movie either. Does it look different, hell yes! It looks very different and make up artists and set designers are really going to have to step up their game because 48 frame does not hide artistic imperfections in the way that 24 frame does.

I shall be interested too se how well 48 frame 3D translates to 24 frame 3D though. As yet its not been released in the UK.
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post #202 of 357 Old 04-01-2013, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

Is the LFE track on this one sold separately?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Hey man......if you find it, will you send me a copy?

biggrin.gif

This is an excellent 7.0 audio track, so no .1 track included. rolleyes.gif

Finally viewed this at home and played pretty much like it did when I saw it theatrically. Great audio but very little lfe.

Watching this again I really enjoyed the mains and surrounds but it dumbfounds me how you can mix the storm fight scene with no lfe? The party is stuck on a precarious mountain pass with HUGE boulders slamming all around them, entire portions of the mountain are giving way beneath them, and no lfe? Adequate lfe that matched what was happening on screen would have served better here and at other parts. I am just looking for it to match the onscreen content. If a door shuts I don't need my couch to rock, unless the director wants the extra oomph for thematic impact. But if a mountain is coming down around me, or a tremendously huge tree is slamming to the ground or the Earth is breaking apart - these should have some heavy lfe.

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post #203 of 357 Old 04-02-2013, 01:55 PM
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If you're not getting enough LFE, it's not because it's completely absent from the audio, just not as loud as you prefer.

I agree it could be much better, but it's still there if you bump your sub level up on your AVR a few notches.

 

I have a near field 15"sub that sits just 12" behind my center seat and pushing 120+ dB of LFE on that scene,

....that would not be possible with a 7.0 track....there's a .1  channel if you're willing to look for it.

 

Don't let a small glitch in a less than perfect disc ruin the whole experience because you refuse to tweak your LFE output level.

 

Claiming its completely missing is absurd.

 

If your car isn't going fast enough against a headwind, sometimes you just have to press harder on the gas pedal wink.gif

Complaining that you have a complete lack of power is not going to solve the issue if you're not willing to use up a little headroom.


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post #204 of 357 Old 04-02-2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post

If you're not getting enough LFE, it's not because it's completely absent from the audio, just not as loud as you prefer.
I agree it could be much better, but it's still there if you bump your sub level up on your AVR a few notches.

I have a near field 15"sub that sits just 12" behind my center seat and pushing 120+ dB of LFE on that scene,
....that would not be possible with a 7.0 track....there's a .1  channel if you're willing to look for it.

Don't let a small glitch in a less than perfect disc ruin the whole experience because you refuse to tweak your LFE output level.

Claiming its completely missing is absurd.

If your car isn't going fast enough against a headwind, sometimes you just have to press harder on the gas pedal wink.gif
Complaining that you have a complete lack of power is not going to solve the issue if you're not willing to use up a little headroom.


I was watching the film at reference level and my subs run ~8-10db hot at about 45hz and below and the LFE was relatively anemic. It is going to take more than a "few notches" of trim adjustment to get the LFE part of the mix where it needs to be and this assumes it is actually there to begin with which I have seen no graphs to confirm or deny at this point. Either way, the mix is very much off in this regard and warrants the negative comments from the numerous posters who have chimed in. You should be able to tell a clear difference in this LFE track and something in the 4-5 star range which includes many examples obviously. Hell, just take ANY scene from the Hobbit that warrants strong LFE and any scene from FOTR which it most closely resembles and you should be able to tell a clear difference between the two. One supports the on screen action beautifully (FOTR) one is very unconvincing and does not (The Hobbit).

One of my 4 subs is near field as well and I also run dual Buttkickers. All 3 (along with my front 3 subs) were relatively BORED with this film compared to truly good and great LFE flicks.

Also, you never answered MKs question in the bass thread. How in the world are you getting the numbers you are reporting (~122db peaks on your SPL meter) running the system as you reported in that thread quoted here..........
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I thought the LFE levels were well balanced to what I was seeing on screen.
Chapter 21 provided the highest SPL on my cheap radio shack meter.

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As MK noted, something is WAY off with either your SPL meter or calibration. There is no way to be at -15 from reference with a flat response and get 122db peaks on the meter. Your meter is either off, or you have a ~20 peak in your response somewhere.

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post #205 of 357 Old 04-02-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post


This is an excellent 7.0 audio track, so no .1 track included. rolleyes.gif

Finally viewed this at home and played pretty much like it did when I saw it theatrically. Great audio but very little lfe.

Watching this again I really enjoyed the mains and surrounds but it dumbfounds me how you can mix the storm fight scene with no lfe? The party is stuck on a precarious mountain pass with HUGE boulders slamming all around them, entire portions of the mountain are giving way beneath them, and no lfe? Adequate lfe that matched what was happening on screen would have served better here and at other parts. I am just looking for it to match the onscreen content. If a door shuts I don't need my couch to rock, unless the director wants the extra oomph for thematic impact. But if a mountain is coming down around me, or a tremendously huge tree is slamming to the ground or the Earth is breaking apart - these should have some heavy lfe.

That is a great way to describe it. It really does feel like a 7.0 track most of the time. Very disappointing especially when the LOTR films had such great LFE support in general that really tied into the on screen action perfectly.

Since watching The Hobbit, I have watched some truly great LFE flicks where the .1 really supports the on screen action such as The Matrix films (2 and 3 especially), Terminator Salvation, Sinister, Rise of the Guardians, and Man With The Iron Fists. The LFE experience between all of these films and The Hobbit is seriously like night/day.

Having said that, maybe the LFE info is there and it is just WAY low in the mix which will be interesting to see if we get some graphs. Any way you cut it though, something is way off with this one in the low end.

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post #206 of 357 Old 04-02-2013, 03:03 PM
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I was watching the film at reference level and my subs run ~8-10db hot at about 45hz and below and the LFE was relatively anemic. It is going to take more than a "few notches" of trim adjustment to get the LFE part of the mix where it needs to be and this assumes it is actually there to begin with which I have seen no graphs to confirm or deny at this point. Either way, the mix is very much off in this regard and warrants the negative comments from the numerous posters who have chimed in. You should be able to tell a clear difference in this LFE track and something in the 4-5 star range which includes many examples obviously. Hell, just take ANY scene from the Hobbit that warrants strong LFE and any scene from FOTR which it most closely resembles and you should be able to tell a clear difference between the two. One supports the on screen action beautifully (FOTR) one is very unconvincing and does not (The Hobbit).

One of my 4 subs is near field as well and I also run dual Buttkickers. All 3 (along with my front 3 subs) were relatively BORED with this film compared to truly good and great LFE flicks.

Also, you never answered MKs question in the bass thread. How in the world are you getting the numbers you are reporting (~122db peaks on your SPL meter) running the system as you reported in that thread quoted here..........
As MK noted, something is WAY off with either your SPL meter or calibration. There is no way to be at -15 from reference with a flat response and get 122db peaks on the meter. Your meter is either off, or you have a ~20 peak in your response somewhere.

For the life of me I can't understand how you can say "It is going to take more than a "few notches" of trim adjustment to get the LFE part of the mix where it needs to be...". I would say that the LFE part of the mix is exactly where it "needs to be" and exactly where they wanted it to be when they mixed it. Because a soundtrack doesn't contain what you want it to doesn't mean there is something wrong with the soundtrack. Maybe you don't like the way this soundtrack was done but that has nothing to do with the quality of the soundtrack. It's not to your liking, I get that, but to me it's very well done and I thought the LFE content was ample.

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post #207 of 357 Old 04-02-2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Angler55 View Post

For the life of me I can't understand how you can say "It is going to take more than a "few notches" of trim adjustment to get the LFE part of the mix where it needs to be...". I would say that the LFE part of the mix is exactly where it "needs to be" and exactly where they wanted it to be when they mixed it. Because a soundtrack doesn't contain what you want it to doesn't mean there is something wrong with the soundtrack. Maybe you don't like the way this soundtrack was done but that has nothing to do with the quality of the soundtrack. It's not to your liking, I get that, but to me it's very well done and I thought the LFE content was ample.

Al

You are right and this is subjective to some extent. However, read the posts and you will see I am not alone in my feelings on the .1 of this track. I am FAR from the only one who feels the LFE did not support the on screen action nearly as well as it should have. If you are happy, awesome. Many of us feel this track was a letdown in the low end and no we are not asking for LFE for the sake of LFE but simply to have the low end support the on screen action which in the opinion of many it flat out does not. Again though, if you you are happy enjoy! smile.gif

For my money, and I will say it a thousand times, most disappointing and unconvincing LFE track (in relation to the on screen action) since the movie 2012 and Revenge of the Sith.

Let me ask you this Angler.........if given the choice, would you rather have the type of LFE support that the LOTR films had, or The Hobbit? This is certainly a fair comparison IMO for obvious reasons.

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post #208 of 357 Old 04-02-2013, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

....

Also, you never answered MKs question in the bass thread. How in the world are you getting the numbers you are reporting (~122db peaks on your SPL meter) running the system as you reported in that thread quoted here..........
As MK noted, something is WAY off with either your SPL meter or calibration. There is no way to be at -15 from reference with a flat response and get 122db peaks on the meter. Your meter is either off, or you have a ~20 peak in your response somewhere.

 

Probably a combo of several factors, Radio Shack meter was <$49 5 years ago, not the most accurate and I'm not sure what % the correction factor is,

Near Field sub is REALLY near the Meter at the time...I'm talking like a Foot or less., My LFE level may be tuned slightly hot, but it wasn't totally cooked.

Definitely a chance I have a peak in my response at my main LP as well, ...and just maybe (but not likely) I don't have the same disc everyone else has.

 

However, Regardless of my SPL readings,

The purpose of my comparison photo's above (wrong SPL reading or not) was that the Final Scene that SO many Raved about (Dragon at the last 10 seconds) was a Real LFE moment they Felt!

...was really no louder than the Mountain Giants battle scene, I know my reading may be off, but it should be consistently off.

 

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post #209 of 357 Old 04-02-2013, 03:16 PM
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Probably a combo of several factors, Radio Shack meter was <$49 5 years ago, not the most accurate and I'm not sure what % the correction factor is,
Near Field sub is REALLY near the Meter at the time...I'm talking like a Foot or less., My LFE level may be tuned slightly hot, but it wasn't totally cooked.
Definitely a chance I have a peak in my response at my main LP as well, ...and just maybe (but not likely) I don't have the same disc everyone else has.

However, Regardless of my SPL readings,
The purpose of my comparison photo's above (wrong SPL reading or not) was that the Final Scene that SO many Raved about (Dragon at the last 10 seconds) was a Real LFE moment they Felt!
was really no louder than the Mountain Giants battle scene, I know my reading may be off, but it should be consistently off.

In all due respect, that is a LOT of variables and unknowns. So your readings were only a foot away from the near sub? What is your response like there in general which could easily explain your readings? What is your response like 80hz and below at your LP?

Also, what raves are you talking about as far as the final scene? While that was certainly the strongest LFE moment in the film, it is not "rave" worthy in general IMO. I remember a few posters commenting on that being the strongest scene and ONE poster who was excited about it claiming he played it back a few times, but I have not read SO many raves in general which maybe I missed and if you could link those I would be curious to read them. That end scene was "good" IMO, but rave worthy LFE in general? Hardly (IMO). I also find it sad that this relatively "good" LFE moment is considered the best LFE part of the whole film in light of some of the on screen action like the Rock Giants scene. One other thing is why did that end scene have relatively good LFE, but the Dragon stomping around at the beginning of the film was relatively weak? This was the first red flag for me which unfortunately was representative of the .1 track in general for whatever reason. Where was the LFE in Goblin Town? How about the other action scenes where it was strangely low and/or missing?

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post #210 of 357 Old 04-02-2013, 03:23 PM
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In all due respect, that is a LOT of variables and unknowns. So your readings were only a foot away from the near sub? What is your response like there in general which could easily explain your readings? What is your response like 80hz and below at your LP?

Also, what raves are you talking about as far as the final scene? While that was certainly the strongest LFE moment in the film, it is not "rave" worthy in general IMO. I remember a few posters commenting on that being the strongest scene and ONE poster who was excited about it claiming he played it back a few times, but I have not read SO many raves in general which maybe I missed and if you could link those I would be curious to read them. That end scene was "good" IMO, but rave worthy LFE in general? Hardly (IMO).

 

Rave is a subjective term

 

Several claimed it was the Strongest LFE moment, and You just made that very same distiction so I challenge you,

Take an SPL reading of the final 10 seconds and compare it to the LFE levels of chapter 21 and tell me which is louder.


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