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post #241 of 259 Old 05-02-2013, 06:45 AM
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This Blu-Ray Forum is not as active as it used to be.....
I saw this thread a few weeks ago, read some, had thoughts, but didn't even bother to reply. Years ago, I used to frequent this forum, hell, I even host some of the data for it to this day. I've not posted here in several years.

I stopped back in to get some info on a new projector I bought, and to get some opinions on new calibration meters. Then, looked for some 3D info, and while I was at it, new receiver info. The Receiver forum is actually not too bad, and has some traffic. Not nearly what it used to be, but there is at least some posting going on. But, I confess, I got all my info while comparison shopping. The few questions I asked in various forums, either got no response, or terribly slow responses. Some by which time I'd already gotten answers elsewhere.

I left this forum because of the people. Most especially some self proclaimed "Industry Insiders" who in spite of their inflated attitudes of themselves, would relentlessly state incorrect info, or in defense of "their" industry, would claim that because there was no industry written proof (confirmation) that a blatantly obvious fact was a fact, that it somehow then wasn't a fact. Example, "This item has insane failure rates". "No no no, I work for that company, and they have not said this is a problem in any press release, therefore, you are mistaken. Trust me, I'm a "Industry Insider". "No, you're just a dhead, but you go ahead and spout off your bs and lies". And they would go on and do so, to the point that if they said it enough, they would believe their own bs.

Obviously, there are others who felt that this made it nearly impossible to find any factual information here, so the forums value dropped and the people left. Thus, the forum is dying out. Contributors come in all shapes and sizes weather these dbags know it or not. I don't need to be a appliance engineer to know that if I put my hand on a burner that's hot, I'll get burnt. Some of these jerkoffs around here are so proud of their "education", they come off that way. It gets to the point of "Ewww, I bought their stock, I know the companies inner workings, right down to the assembly line and product details"... Make me laugh... rolleyes.gif I see other variations on this story above, so I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed. But, I also see some of those people posting above, so the problem lives on. I would say traffic on this site dropped 80% or more since I last was on here. My home theater experience got much better, and I'm thinking many others did as well. Says something about some of the people here. It only takes a few jerkoffs to drive all the traffic away.

So, when the contributors leave, content is worthless, and traffic falls off. Even incorrect information which spawns discussion is good for a discussion forum.

I go to the calibration section and want to get some up to date general info, look at the stickies, and ????? Some of these are from 2005?? Wth? Start reading and some of the meters described are discontinued... no, ALL of them are. There's some links that go to no longer existing domains! Last edits are 6-8 years ago. Stickies! ... I mean, is there nobody here anymore? And before you say it hasn't changed in the past 6 years, there's settings for color on my projector that didn't exist just a few years ago, so yea, there's new stuff to learn.

Look for some time in the <$3000 forum for info on my projector (MSRP $2200) and where is the thread? Well, in the $3000+ forum of course!. ??? Wth? Look at THAT thread figuring well, it must be that it was >$3000 when it was new. Post #6, "What is this doing in the >$3000 forum?".... Nope, guess not. Funny thing, as anal as I remember the mods around here to be, I can't believe that there wasn't a full witch trial and burning at the stake for the person who put that in the wrong forum. And, imagine how insulted the high end guys were looking at "Their" forum and seeing the lowly W7000 thread in there. Oh the shame! Worse yet, we're 3 years into the production, and the thread is still there... Is a newb gonna go search that forum for info on a $1800 projector? I think not.

Calibration software has changed drastically in the last 8 years. Meters, etc. Go try to find useful information in that forum. And, if you're like me, you know better than to start a thread and ask a question. Around here, that's taboo. Not that searching is worth a damn, but unless the mods have taken a trainload of Valium since 2009/10, you'll get reprimanded and threadlocked for asking a question that was asked back in 1996. I've been checking in lately to see if there's responses to my threads (with not much new if anything), thankfully there's other sites with good info. Cause there's none here. Ya know, as nice as it is to interact with someone experienced, that's counterbalanced by interacting with the rest of the folks. In the past two weeks, I've answered more questions here than I asked. And many more than I got answers to.

3D info is all but non-existent. A sticky with some general info would be a great help. A nice Q/A so you could just read it and get answers to basics for buying decisions. Forget that. And why is that a subforum? Why not just a sticky in the hardware and blu-ray software forums? All this segregation is not helpful.

Add to that the forum software, and you have your answers.
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post #242 of 259 Old 05-02-2013, 07:58 AM
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Not just elitism but some people think that a disc with a film like presentation is wrong, the definition of home theater is lost on them.
Define film like presentation. Does it mean seeing the grain structure? Does it mean replicating the flicker of shutter? We all want the product to be as close as possible to the original source, but a certain number of users here assumed that everything contained in the original print was the directors's intent. The only things I despise are excessive DNR and edge enhancement. The big problem is that it cost studios too much money on catalog titles to make them ready for a true HD release. Many catalog titles sell in low numbers and end up in the bargain bins within weeks of their release. The reality is that now many potential big selling classics have already been released. No Star Wars or Indy waiting in the wings. Great classics like Wizard of Oz, Casablanca, King Kong, Citizen Kane, North by Northwest, Lawrence of Arabia, etc... are already available. And of those I mentioned how many of those titles disappointed on BD?

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post #243 of 259 Old 05-02-2013, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

The big problem is that it cost studios too much money on catalog titles to make them ready for a true HD release. Many catalog titles sell in low numbers and end up in the bargain bins within weeks of their release.

Do it cost them too much? I ask because I don't actually know, but it doesn't seem that way. The studios would NOT be releasing any of these titles if they weren't selling well enough to cover their expenses and maintain profit. I'm thinking that the costs of a modern 2K or 4K+ scan probably isn't as high as it was 7 years ago when HD-DVD/Blu-ray launched (or 15 years ago when HD content was picking up steam). It's clear that there are some films released (Twilight Time) that otherwise might be cost prohibitive, but this appears to be the exception, not the rule.
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post #244 of 259 Old 05-02-2013, 11:11 AM
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I just filter out what I didn't like in comments and then just moved on. Why would anyone let an anonymous opinion of anything by anyone chase you way from an otherwise good site?

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post #245 of 259 Old 05-03-2013, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post

Not just elitism but some people think that a disc with a film like presentation is wrong, the definition of home theater is lost on them.
Such a ridiculous strawman argument. What does this even mean?
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post #246 of 259 Old 05-03-2013, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

Define film like presentation. Does it mean seeing the grain structure? Does it mean replicating the flicker of shutter? We all want the product to be as close as possible to the original source, but a certain number of users here assumed that everything contained in the original print was the directors's intent. The only things I despise are excessive DNR and edge enhancement. The big problem is that it cost studios too much money on catalog titles to make them ready for a true HD release. Many catalog titles sell in low numbers and end up in the bargain bins within weeks of their release. The reality is that now many potential big selling classics have already been released. No Star Wars or Indy waiting in the wings. Great classics like Wizard of Oz, Casablanca, King Kong, Citizen Kane, North by Northwest, Lawrence of Arabia, etc... are already available. And of those I mentioned how many of those titles disappointed on BD?

Olive some how not did get your memo, they are tying to release as much catalog titles as they can. Other studio are still releasing classics, Fox releasing the great Viva Zapata! defies your many claims.
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Do it cost them too much? I ask because I don't actually know, but it doesn't seem that way. The studios would NOT be releasing any of these titles if they weren't selling well enough to cover their expenses and maintain profit. I'm thinking that the costs of a modern 2K or 4K+ scan probably isn't as high as it was 7 years ago when HD-DVD/Blu-ray launched (or 15 years ago when HD content was picking up steam). It's clear that there are some films released (Twilight Time) that otherwise might be cost prohibitive, but this appears to be the exception, not the rule.

TT releases stuff pre-made stuff and Sony (probably Fox too) sells the TT released titles through several distribution channels. One thing you forgot to add is that a 'blu-ray master' is never made just for the format, they are sold in many other profitable mediums as well.
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post #247 of 259 Old 05-04-2013, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by K-Spaz View Post

And, if you're like me, you know better than to start a thread and ask a question. Around here, that's taboo. Not that searching is worth a damn, but unless the mods have taken a trainload of Valium since 2009/10, you'll get reprimanded and threadlocked for asking a question that was asked back in 1996. .

There does seem to be a mod culture that discourages creating new threads if there is duplicate information buried in another thread. I am very wary myself of starting a new thread here for that reason.
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post #248 of 259 Old 05-04-2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Toknowshita View Post

The big problem is that it cost studios too much money on catalog titles to make them ready for a true HD release. Many catalog titles sell in low numbers and end up in the bargain bins within weeks of their release. The reality is that now many potential big selling classics have already been released. No Star Wars or Indy waiting in the wings. Great classics like Wizard of Oz, Casablanca, King Kong, Citizen Kane, North by Northwest, Lawrence of Arabia, etc... are already available. And of those I mentioned how many of those titles disappointed on BD?

Blu-ray catalog has never been as prolific as it was with DVD (only about a third of the output). There aren't that many "tentpole" titles, and it looks like they have finally been all released. The thing that some people are realizing is that the most of the old classics may never see a Blu-ray release. As you say, sales do not justify the cost in making them presentable in HD. Sure, we now have Olive, TT and Kino to come with the old stuff, but how many of these do you want to pay $25-$30 for? We were spoiled with Warner and Fox opening up their DVD vault and released box sets at a very good price. Hopefully Warner will reissue the Bette Davis, Bogart and other classic box sets on Blu-ray, but I think if they do, it would only be on Warner Archive and they'll probably charge $20+ per movie just like Olive and TT do.
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post #249 of 259 Old 05-05-2013, 07:46 AM
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Blu-ray catalog has never been as prolific as it was with DVD (only about a third of the output). There aren't that many "tentpole" titles, and it looks like they have finally been all released. The thing that some people are realizing is that the most of the old classics may never see a Blu-ray release. As you say, sales do not justify the cost in making them presentable in HD. Sure, we now have Olive, TT and Kino to come with the old stuff, but how many of these do you want to pay $25-$30 for? We were spoiled with Warner and Fox opening up their DVD vault and released box sets at a very good price. Hopefully Warner will reissue the Bette Davis, Bogart and other classic box sets on Blu-ray, but I think if they do, it would only be on Warner Archive and they'll probably charge $20+ per movie just like Olive and TT do.
Twenty five to thirty dollars is not that bad, ask laserdisc owners what they paid per disc.

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post #250 of 259 Old 05-05-2013, 08:38 AM
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Twenty five to thirty dollars is not that bad, ask laserdisc owners what they paid per disc.

Compared to laserdisc, yes, but we're not living in the 90's. Compared to other catalogs available today on Blu-ray, the $25-$30 price tag sticks out and makes one very, very selective regarding which old movies are worth it at that price. I would like to own many classics on Blu-ray, but at the right price. For example, I would like to own the TT release of Hard Times (1975), but not at $30. I would consider that movie unavailable to me until it was under $20 (unless of course, Netflix decided to stock, which is extremely unlikely).
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It's the same old arguments, I'm afraid. I won't buy x title at thirty but I would at twenty. But if it were twenty then it would be "I'll wait till it's fifteen or ten or hits the five-dollar bin" and that's why companies license out titles - they simply don't need that kind of aggravation and who can blame them? That's how it is, so the only decision is do you like a movie well enough to own it for the asking price. If I love a film, thirty dollars is just fine. If I hate a film, one dollar is too much. Seems simple to me.
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post #252 of 259 Old 05-05-2013, 12:22 PM
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It's the same old arguments, I'm afraid. I won't buy x title at thirty but I would at twenty. But if it were twenty then it would be "I'll wait till it's fifteen or ten or hits the five-dollar bin" and that's why companies license out titles - they simply don't need that kind of aggravation and who can blame them? That's how it is, so the only decision is do you like a movie well enough to own it for the asking price. If I love a film, thirty dollars is just fine. If I hate a film, one dollar is too much. Seems simple to me.

I'll be the first to tell you that for the most part, Blu-ray prices are a great value. IMO, there's way to much content already available on the format to be overspending on movies and there's a lot of movies I love that I don't even own yet on the format that very reasonably priced. I would like to own more classics, but at $25-$30 a pop I'm going to have to take a pass. Forgive me for being disappointed because I had expectations of greater availability and pricing on older movies. If you're content at the current state of classics on Blu-ray, then fine. I guess I just got spoiled with DVD.
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post #253 of 259 Old 05-05-2013, 01:43 PM
 
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I am content with owning the movies I want to own. If the price is fifteen bucks, great. If it's thirty bucks, also great if I want to own that particular film. What I'm never content to do is play this game of waiting until things hit the bargain bin - it's just not for me. It's almost like a game. "Ooh, it's twenty bucks, but I waited and then it was twelve bucks and I used three coupons and a discount code and got it for free." That's what happens with the majority of "collectors" of Blu-ray and it is why titles are being licensed out to companies like Twilight Time, Olive, and Criterion. No muss, no fuss, no bother, and the studios don't have to put up with loss leaders.

However, I completely understand the world in which we live - I don't necessarily like it, but I sure do understand it.
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post #254 of 259 Old 05-05-2013, 02:32 PM
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I am content with owning the movies I want to own. If the price is fifteen bucks, great. If it's thirty bucks, also great if I want to own that particular film. What I'm never content to do is play this game of waiting until things hit the bargain bin - it's just not for me. It's almost like a game. "Ooh, it's twenty bucks, but I waited and then it was twelve bucks and I used three coupons and a discount code and got it for free." That's what happens with the majority of "collectors" of Blu-ray and it is why titles are being licensed out to companies like Twilight Time, Olive, and Criterion. No muss, no fuss, no bother, and the studios don't have to put up with loss leaders.

However, I completely understand the world in which we live - I don't necessarily like it, but I sure do understand it.

Criterion is different however. They have exclusive access (thru their Janus Films library) to some of the greatest films ever made and overall they simply release much better films than Twilight Time, Olive or Kino. Also they have lots of extras, so actually I'm very happy to buy their titles because they're worth it. Also it makes it easier to own them via occasional sales on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, where I can stock up. I haven't seen any Twilight Time or Olive sales.

I can see what you mean though about the bargain bin mentality. I guess everyone has their price on what they'd be willing to pay for a movie they like. For many folks it seems that it has to be a bargain bin price. It doesn't do the studios any favors (which it turn discourages them to release films directly), but it's tough to feel sorry for them as they've made plenty off of DVD.

I waiting for one of the major studios to release a classic box set based on actor. We've seen Fox release the Forever Marilyn set, but judging by how fast the priced dropped (it was available at Costco for $25 a few months after release), I don't think sales were very encouraging unfortunately.
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post #255 of 259 Old 05-05-2013, 03:02 PM
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ask laserdisc owners what they paid per disc.

Click here for a sampling. Many of these titles were repurchased on DVD and quite a few were repurchased again on D-Theater then yet again on Blu-ray eek.gif

Make no mistake, I keep my eye open for good deals on Blu-ray titles. IMO, at this point there is too much of a price premium for Blu-ray vs DVD.


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post #256 of 259 Old 05-06-2013, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bruceames View Post

Compared to laserdisc, yes, but we're not living in the 90's. Compared to other catalogs available today on Blu-ray, the $25-$30 price tag sticks out and makes one very, very selective regarding which old movies are worth it at that price. I would like to own many classics on Blu-ray, but at the right price. For example, I would like to own the TT release of Hard Times (1975), but not at $30. I would consider that movie unavailable to me until it was under $20 (unless of course, Netflix decided to stock, which is extremely unlikely).

It is what it is and pricing is pricing. I still see Blu Rays as very cheap for the quality you get. Prices are not to o far from DVD prices for 480i and lossy audio. We'd all like items we buy to be priced within our reach, but that's not the way it works. That said, pricing is reasonable in my opinion and if you want to pay less, check eBay.


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post #257 of 259 Old 05-06-2013, 09:10 AM
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It is what it is and pricing is pricing. I still see Blu Rays as very cheap for the quality you get. Prices are not to o far from DVD prices for 480i and lossy audio. We'd all like items we buy to be priced within our reach, but that's not the way it works. That said, pricing is reasonable in my opinion and if you want to pay less, check eBay.

I agree. Pricing for the most part is very reasonable, and considering the pack-ins like 3D, DVD and DC UV, it can be considered a bargain (especially compared to past formats). I'm certainly not complaining about pricing in general, however I had wished better pricing and availability on classics (meaning the major studios release them directly, rather than licensing them out to 3rd party distributors). I guess what disappoints me now are the indicators that we probably won't see major studio releases of mid tier classics on Blu-ray. But like you say, it is what it is and as a whole I'm happy with what we are seeing.
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post #258 of 259 Old 05-07-2013, 05:38 PM
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Since the stereovision conversions of Star Wars did poorly that is less likely now.

Guess not! http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471738/the-wizard-of-oz-3d#post_23289314

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post #259 of 259 Old 05-07-2013, 07:37 PM
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I think I sense activity on this forum;)

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