AVS Can't-Wait Special—"Mastered in 4K" Blu-Ray Releases - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel_wu View Post

All these short videos are there so the BD authors do not have to re-program that much when they work on different region discs. You know, like a template.

I figured as much, but some of it is truly bizarre. Like the Dutch ratings--why have four out of five on there? Obviously, Ghostbusters has a Dutch rating (AL, according to IMDb), so why are the ratings for 6, 12 and 16 there, and if the idea is to just have them all on there, then where is the one for 9? And wouldn't connecting that right rating video up so that it displays on a Region B unit set to Dutch negate the idea of having more than one of them on the disc in the first place?

And what happened with the World of 4K by Sony trailer? It doesn't play in any region on my player, but it was obviously designed and added to the disc package with the intention of it playing as a preview, and somehow, it was not made part of the final disc, which seems rather silly, if you ask me.

I mean, the template workflow makes a lot of sense for most Blu-rays, but I just find it fascinating that, especially in a line where we are supposed to be maxing out bitrates for the best presentation, there is orphan content taking up space (I know there is plenty of it available, but still).
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post #272 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 10:41 AM
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Maybe they decided at the last minute not to annoy us with more marketing? biggrin.gif

In regards to maxing out bitrate: lossless French dub track. Sigh.
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post #273 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 12:50 PM
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at 34 Mbps, the can't bring the bitrate higher so they can put Encyclopedia Britannica for all I care. biggrin.gif:D

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post #274 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 01:29 PM
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Wow, ok. Have you seen this first hand? Just wondering because if it's worth it (is it worth it?) I'll re-buy the 4k masters.

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post #275 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 01:33 PM
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yes, if you go back several posts (and pages), you can read my views of these discs on 4KTV, 4K projector and 2K TV and projector. I've tried The Other Guys, Spiderman, Total Recall, Ghostbusters so far. Karate Kid is coming.

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post #276 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 02:35 PM
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As for the Sony 4k intro... I wonder if that will play when you hook the disc up to their UHD sets? Part of the metadata information embedded in the stream?

Has anyone played these titles on a normal xvYCC compatible Blu-ray player and HDTV to see if they engage the xvYCC video ON/OFF choice in the TV's menu, and are not proprietary for limited Triluminos Sony products?

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #277 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 03:01 PM
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Triluminos is NOT xvycc in terms of implementation. The way triluminos works is by having regular colourspace + difference data (just like DTS-MA which is DTS Core + difference)

I tried using Sony BDP-S790 and HX959 (both Sony but not Triluminos) and set xvycc on, the end result is washed out colour.

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post #278 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

As for the Sony 4k intro... I wonder if that will play when you hook the disc up to their UHD sets? Part of the metadata information embedded in the stream?

Has anyone played these titles on a normal xvYCC compatible Blu-ray player and HDTV to see if they engage the xvYCC video ON/OFF choice in the TV's menu, and are not proprietary for limited Triluminous Sony products?

The whole xvycc thing has been very confusing. Sony sure seems to think that a Blu-ray disc can contain content that can use that feature... how it's flagging the player, I have no idea. The PS3 sounded like it would be a supported player, but enabling the option that is supposed to turn it on (Super-White) didn't seem to do much for me when testing it with Ghostbusters. I have the PS3 hooked up to a Sony VPL-VW95 where I can turn the x.v.color option on and off. I notice no difference when doing so, so I have to assume the PS3 is only allowing AVCHD files to be used with x.v.color.
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post #279 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Triluminos is NOT xvycc in terms of implementation. The way triluminos works is by having regular colourspace + difference data (just like DTS-MA which is DTS Core + difference)

I tried using Sony BDP-S790 and HX959 (both Sony but not Triluminos) and set xvycc on, the end result is washed out colour.

Gotta love that proprietary Sony thing... 4k download players and now Blu-ray discs. rolleyes.gif

This will go over well.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #280 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Maybe they decided at the last minute not to annoy us with more marketing? biggrin.gif

In regards to maxing out bitrate: lossless French dub track. Sigh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

at 34 Mbps, the can't bring the bitrate higher so they can put Encyclopedia Britannica for all I care. biggrin.gif:D

Well, that may be true, but the audio is exactly the same as the 2009 disc: 48/16 at a mere 1504 kbps. It's too bad they didn't see fit to re-master the audio again for 24-bit presentation--they ceratinly had some space left over for it, and the French DUB could easily have become DD, or they could (and should, in my opinion) have just nixed it--the DUBs that didn't make the cut onto this disc don't seem to matter...
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post #281 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 05:29 PM
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The dynamic range and frequency limitation will not yield any better result whether they use 16/48 or 24/96. The sonic information of this movie is never that good to begin with. frown.gif

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post #282 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Gotta love that proprietary Sony thing... 4k download players and now Blu-ray discs. rolleyes.gif

This will go over well.

1. These discs are not marketed towards us but towards 4K TV users
2. There is no physical media for 4K have been established yet, therefore 4k download player is the only way to go for native 4K media.

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post #283 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 09:33 PM
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34.8Mbps for Ghostbusters is nothing to sneeze at, but Blu-ray allows 40Mbps for the video alone. These still don't match what discs from other studios have hit for bitrate.

David: the back cover of the Spider-Man retail release says "Expanded color requires xvYCC-compatible TV and Blu-ray player." Nothing about Triluminous or difference data.

It also has a Super Bit Mapping logo.
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post #284 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 09:56 PM
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I know that but I tried it as I mentioned and all I get is washed out colours. The difference data info I received from Sony engineers from Japan.

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post #285 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 10:50 PM
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Sony can't seem to decide what Triluminos actually refers to.

http://www.sonyinsider.com/2009/04/12/sony-triluminos-explained/

Their current press releases identify it as the newest backlight tech on their TVs (from QD Vision) and some vague suggestion that their Blu-ray players will enable use of wider gamuts from supported content. No specific references to the Mastered in 4K series from their own press.
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post #286 of 909 Old 05-15-2013, 11:29 PM
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Angels & Demons is much better than the original BD release. The textures in the papal cloth materials really shows up in this version. More notable is the audio mix which now seems uncompressed. Visually the biggest improvement is contrast. Dark backgrounds no longer hide in the shadows. Very enveloping, this is how all BDs should be.

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post #287 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 01:00 AM
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So Amazon .ca is only listing two 4k titles.. and they're BOTH 'unavailable' . What's up with that eek.gif

http://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=mastered%20in%204k%20blu%20ray

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post #288 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 01:02 AM
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The 4k mastered version of GLORY looks fantastic.
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post #289 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 02:13 AM
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Spider-Man BDInfo

---

Some science:
Quote:
1. The chromaticity coordinates of RGB primary colors and the reference white (D65) are the same as for the existing BT.709 standard.
2. The opto-electric transfer characteristics of signals not less than 0 and not greater than 1 are defined using the same formula as for BT.709, and signals above 1 are also defined using the same formula. Signals below 0 are defined to produce a transfer curve with origin symmetry.
3. The conversion matrix from RGB (color signals) to YCC (luminance/color-difference signals) for xvYCC709 is the same as for BT.709, and that for xvYCC601 is the same as for BT.601.
4. With 8-bit quantization of luminance and color-difference signals, definition formula are set and the color gamut is expanded by using values between 1 and 15 and between 241 and 254 as picture signals. Definitions over 8 bits are also used to support precise gradation.

So, screenshots using the regular Rec.709 matrix for conversion to RGB should be accurate. But if that's the case, why would you ever need to turn on the xvYCC setting in order to see the effect?

Based on point 4, I outputted the maximum U and V values for each frame of Spider-Man and took a look at the numbers. The highest U value is only 232, but V does indeed rise outside of 240 several times. The four frames below contain the most highly-saturated color in the movie. (There is also some BTB and WTW, which I expect is mainly down to the ringing.)

abmnKfLg.jpg acx4j18r.jpg adnNVXcg.jpg acgho4sj.jpg

Histograms. The brownish borders show which values are outside of typical video range.

d01be0254795366.jpg 88e06f254795437.jpg 093c1b254795499.jpg 0fbef9254795522.jpg

It doesn't take much desaturation to bring these images into the normal range. Color me unimpressed if this is all that the expansion gets us. (I will leave open the possibility that I'm missing something fundamental.)

abbDmsPo.jpg

Still, it's nice to see that they do seem to be making use of the colorspace where appropriate. I suspect the additional colors are more useful for animation than photography.
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post #290 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Triluminos is NOT xvycc in terms of implementation. The way triluminos works is by having regular colourspace + difference data (just like DTS-MA which is DTS Core + difference)

I tried using Sony BDP-S790 and HX959 (both Sony but not Triluminos) and set xvycc on, the end result is washed out colour.


would have to recalibrate once in xvycc mode?
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post #291 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 07:25 AM
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Am I correct in understanding that W-LED LCD doesn't even achieve full NTSC colourspace, so there is no point trying to feed an extended colourspace to such a TV?

I had a feeling that the old CCFL backlights actually offered a wider colourspace, but even that doesn't meet the requirements of an extended colourspace.

To make use of xvYCC, I should imagine one would need a TV with special RGB LED, which is perhaps where the Triluminos terminology comes from.

Or is the confusion around an extended colourspace (eg more vivid greens for example) versus a finer gradation in the existing colourspaces (ie less banding due to quantisation effects)?

4K mastered is the Bluray equivalent of Superbit DVD?
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post #292 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by IanD View Post

4K mastered is the Bluray equivalent of Superbit DVD?

Until proven otherwise, that's about all we can say for sure. I, for one, welcome this change. It allows for the best that Blu-ray has to offer (as it should have been from the start!).
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post #293 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 08:29 AM
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My xvYCC capable player and TV revealed no apparent different in color range when viewing the new Ghostbusters. I conclude that it is either a case of a misleading product description or my hardware doesn't really do what it says it can.

Having said that, the new 4k scan of Ghostbusters is much preferred over the 2009 BD. I welcome more of these releases, particularly for catalog titles.
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post #294 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

Until proven otherwise, that's about all we can say for sure. I, for one, welcome this change. It allows for the best that Blu-ray has to offer (as it should have been from the start!).

Everything on BD should be 4k starting right now, make it happen Studios ! biggrin.gif

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post #295 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 10:04 AM
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Just picked up Glory. Much better than the previous Blu ray.

So..wait..., are you telling me there is significant room for Improvement on ALL titles.
In theory, would Star Wars, Hobbit, Avatar,
..From The Exorcist to Tron.. ALL look possibly better with a 4k transfer and the highest bitrate?..
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post #296 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

34.8Mbps for Ghostbusters is nothing to sneeze at, but Blu-ray allows 40Mbps for the video alone. These still don't match what discs from other studios have hit for bitrate.

David: the back cover of the Spider-Man retail release says "Expanded color requires xvYCC-compatible TV and Blu-ray player." Nothing about Triluminous or difference data.

It also has a Super Bit Mapping logo.
There are diminishing image quality returns once you hit around 32-35 Mbps for the video encode on Blu-ray, at least with AVC. It does make a vast difference over the ~24 Mbps that Sony has been using as their standard rate. Anyone watching on a display bigger than 50" could tell the difference.
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post #297 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Just picked up Glory. Much better than the previous Blu ray.

So..wait..., are you telling me there is significant room for Improvement on ALL titles.
In theory, would Star Wars, Hobbit, Avatar,
..From The Exorcist to Tron.. ALL look possibly better with a 4k transfer and the highest bitrate?..
Not if they were finished in 2K, which I believe many films still are.

Someone correct me, if I'm wrong.
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post #298 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostylou View Post

Just picked up Glory. Much better than the previous Blu ray.

So..wait..., are you telling me there is significant room for Improvement on ALL titles.
In theory, would Star Wars, Hobbit, Avatar,
..From The Exorcist to Tron.. ALL look possibly better with a 4k transfer and the highest bitrate?..

Star Wars original trilogy: YES
The other movies you mentioned: NO
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post #299 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

So Amazon .ca is only listing two 4k titles.. and they're BOTH 'unavailable' . What's up with that eek.gif

http://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=mastered%20in%204k%20blu%20ray

Why am I seeing three?
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post #300 of 909 Old 05-16-2013, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raoul_duke View Post

Not if they were finished in 2K, which I believe many films still are.

Someone correct me, if I'm wrong.

Uh, wasn't it the point of this 4k line of BDs? To master them in 4k instead of 2k......
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