AVS Can't-Wait Special—"Mastered in 4K" Blu-Ray Releases - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 909 Old 08-09-2013, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post

Check Amazon. I bought Godzilla the other day and I think I saw some of the other titles in the Mastered in 4K series on the site.

You can get all the Sony "master in 4k" titles on Amazon. Also, if you live near a Frys Electronics, they too carry almost all the 4K releases usually grouped together in a small cardboard display near the new Blu-ray releases and they are priced a couple bucks cheaper than Amazon.
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post #632 of 909 Old 08-09-2013, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

Your right.
It was shot in 5K stereo but edited in 2K.
They could have re-linked the edit back to the original 5K .R3D RAW and only up-converted the CGI before mixing them in, but I doubt they did put that much effort for the "4K mastering".

TASM was 4K 2D with up-scaled VFX shots and 2K 3D. First the 4K 2D master was created and from that, a 2K 3D master was made by the stereographer.
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post #633 of 909 Old 08-10-2013, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post

TASM was 4K 2D with up-scaled VFX shots and 2K 3D. First the 4K 2D master was created and from that, a 2K 3D master was made by the stereographer.
Your post doesn't make much sense unless you are more specific.

Original edit was;
“Our working pipeline was around 2K resolution with a ten percent pad and 16 bit DPX colorspace,” says Chen. “We would take the R3D files, use Nuke to scale it down using a Simon filter, and then go right to 16 bit DPX in a log format. In compositing we would open to a linear format, and go back out to log.”


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post #634 of 909 Old 08-12-2013, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I found this on youtube...pretty neat.



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post #635 of 909 Old 08-12-2013, 07:13 PM
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regardless which version anybody prefers, the 4K remaster look closer to the laserdisc release.

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post #636 of 909 Old 08-14-2013, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

regardless which version anybody prefers, the 4K remaster look closer to the laserdisc release.

Of what? confused.gif

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post #637 of 909 Old 08-14-2013, 10:59 AM
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I'm referring to the Ghostbusters in the Youtube A/B comparison video above my post.

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post #638 of 909 Old 08-14-2013, 12:16 PM
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Ghostbusters' new transfer is stunning. It's a thing of beauty upscaled on my 4K set, I wonder just how much better the actual 4K version can get.
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post #639 of 909 Old 08-14-2013, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

Ghostbusters' new transfer is stunning. It's a thing of beauty upscaled on my 4K set, I wonder just how much better the actual 4K version can get.
It can look substantially above all previous transfers including this one.
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post #640 of 909 Old 08-16-2013, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

Ghostbusters' new transfer is stunning. It's a thing of beauty upscaled on my 4K set, I wonder just how much better the actual 4K version can get.

What 2160p TV do you have?

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post #641 of 909 Old 08-17-2013, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by homogenic View Post

It can look substantially above all previous transfers including this one.
I'm not saying that it wouldn't be, just that the Mi4K disc really is stunning. If that's as good as it gets I'll be happy with that - and that might just turn out to be the case because Sony don't seem to give a toss about releasing 4K content outside of North America. biggrin.gif

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post #642 of 909 Old 09-03-2013, 02:26 PM
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Looks like the 4k edition is darker?
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post #643 of 909 Old 09-03-2013, 04:14 PM
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I got my first "Mastered in 4K" for Spiderman. Sony refuses to put any bonus materials on the "Mastered in 4K" edition because they want to "max" out the Blu-ray 50GB disc space for the enhanced picture quality. Well, Spiderman only uses 35MB of the 50GB Blu-ray disc. They could easily put all the bonus materials on the remaining 15GB unused space.

I can see certain longer playtime movies that may use more than 35GB of disc space but for any movie to use up the entire 50GB of disc space, the movie needs to be longer than 3.5 hours playtime.

My opinion is Sony is just lazy in putting any bonus materials on the "Mastered in 4K" edition to create the illusion that the higher details require "all" the disc space on the 50GB Blu-ray disc since they know not every viewer has the Blu-ray drive to verify the actual disc usage.

As for Spiderman, while the picture looks sharper, it's has more grainy look almost like Sony just increased the sharper focus from the film.
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post #644 of 909 Old 09-03-2013, 08:56 PM
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Just wait til they start putting real 2160p movies on BD. It will be back to barebones and high prices.

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post #645 of 909 Old 09-03-2013, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Just wait til they start putting real 2160p movies on BD. It will be back to barebones and high prices.

+ compromised transfers if history is anything to go by. Was the initial release of any new format ever up to scratch compared to future encodes?
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post #646 of 909 Old 09-03-2013, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post

My opinion is Sony is just lazy in putting any bonus materials on the "Mastered in 4K" edition to create the illusion that the higher details require "all" the disc space on the 50GB Blu-ray disc since they know not every viewer has the Blu-ray drive to verify the actual disc usage.

We should have been ready for this: Avatar was the first release to claim it used the whole disc for quality, but never actually maxed it out.

What is that old saying? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
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post #647 of 909 Old 09-04-2013, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Vortex3D View Post

I got my first "Mastered in 4K" for Spiderman. Sony refuses to put any bonus materials on the "Mastered in 4K" edition because they want to "max" out the Blu-ray 50GB disc space for the enhanced picture quality. Well, Spiderman only uses 35MB of the 50GB Blu-ray disc. They could easily put all the bonus materials on the remaining 15GB unused space.

I can see certain longer playtime movies that may use more than 35GB of disc space but for any movie to use up the entire 50GB of disc space, the movie needs to be longer than 3.5 hours playtime.

My opinion is Sony is just lazy in putting any bonus materials on the "Mastered in 4K" edition to create the illusion that the higher details require "all" the disc space on the 50GB Blu-ray disc since they know not every viewer has the Blu-ray drive to verify the actual disc usage.

As for Spiderman, while the picture looks sharper, it's has more grainy look almost like Sony just increased the sharper focus from the film.

You are extremely focussed on the free space left unused, but the other limitation is the A/V total bitrate (bandwidth) which can't exceed 48 Mbps.
The fact that the disc has lots of free space, doesn't mean that they didn't "max out" the full potential.

With 34 Mbps for the video alone on these Mastered in 4K titles you are pretty close to the limit.
The other reason why they want to stay away from encoding right on the limit, is to avoid playback problems (hickups, artifacts, freezing etc) on Blu-ray players from all brands.
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post #648 of 909 Old 09-04-2013, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Buurke View Post

You are extremely focussed on the free space left unused, but the other limitation is the A/V total bitrate (bandwidth) which can't exceed 48 Mbps.
The fact that the disc has lots of free space, doesn't mean that they didn't "max out" the full potential.

With 34 Mbps for the video alone on these Mastered in 4K titles you are pretty close to the limit.
The other reason why they want to stay away from encoding right on the limit, is to avoid playback problems (hickups, artifacts, freezing etc) on Blu-ray players from all brands.

It's not that I have issue with unused free space but Sony should use the free space to put the bonus materials on them. The way Sony did it is if you want bonus materials, then you have to buy the regular edition. If you want the best picture quality version, ie. Mastered in 2K, you must buy the edition without any bonus materials.
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post #649 of 909 Old 09-04-2013, 01:54 PM
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No big deal, just like LaserDisc days. You want best quality? Get the CAV edition. Want extras? Get the special edition.

You can't have the best quality + extras (they have to pay royalties for those, FYI), AND cheap at the same time.

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post #650 of 909 Old 09-05-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

No big deal, just like LaserDisc days. You want best quality? Get the CAV edition. Want extras? Get the special edition.

Most Laserdisc "Special Editions" were the CAV versions. smile.gif

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post #651 of 909 Old 09-05-2013, 11:32 AM
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Actually that's true. But the CAV with special features cost a lot more than the CLV version. In this case the Mi4K are cheaper than the original price of the 2K mastered discs.

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post #652 of 909 Old 09-05-2013, 03:18 PM
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Interesting article on 4k in Home Theater magaine.


Upscaling to 4K


By Thomas J. Norton • Posted: Jun 29, 2013



Despite all the talk about 4K (or Ultra HD) displays, there are already a bazillion hours of “standard” 2K HD programming out there in videoland. Consumer 4K sources will be slow in coming, and they might well arrive over the Internet. The question remains as to whether or not the inherent data rate limitations of streaming video could dilute or eliminate the supposed benefits of 4K resolution—apart from the marketing hype.
Over the next couple of years, therefore, and assuming that 4K sets take fire in the marketplace, the smart money will be on upconverting 2K sources to 4K. No form of upconverting can add real resolution; genuine Ultra HD starts and ends with 4K resolution. Nevertheless, we expect plenty of action on the 2K to 4K upconversion front. Since consumer 2K is largely (though not entirely) 1920 x 1080 pixels, and consumer 4K is 3840 x 2160, it would appear that such upconversion might simply involve taking the content of each 2K pixel and quadrupling it (with no added enhancement) to fill a 2 x 2 pixel area on the 4K display. But that will gain nothing in subjective resolution, and may actually reduce image quality due to the added processing required. Most upconversion, therefore, will likely include enhancement and/or other digital manipulation, designed to both eliminate possible upconversion losses and better simulate the look of true 4K.

At this past week’s CES Unveiled in New York, Technicolor planned to demonstrate a promising 4K upconverter from Silicon Valley chip developer Marseilles. Located as I am on the Left Coast, I was not at CES Unveiled—a sort of Mini-me CES designed to fill in the January-to-January gap between the big, annual CESs in Las Vegas. Others, from Home Theater’s New York office, however, attended the New York event.

But in late May I was invited to Marseille’s California headquarters to view a preview of its technology. Their demo used two Sony 55-inch 4K flat screen Ultra HDTVs. The first comparison had native 4K on one display and Marseille’s upconversion of a 2K original on the other. There were essentially no visible differences, though if pressed I’d say that some scenes looked marginally sharper on the upconverted version. When they later showed upconverted 2K material on one set (using the Sony’s on-board upconversion) and their own upconversion on the other, the result was a visible win for Marseille as well.

I don’t think 55-inch 4K sets are the most revealing choice for such a face-off, but it did show that Marseille’s processing could be a serious player. I suspect they’ll have a lot of competition in this game, but the partnership with Technicolor is a smart move for both companies. Marseille is not a household name in video upconversion, but then again there are no household names in video upconversion. Videophiles alone may be familiar with Marvell, DVDO, Lumagen, Faroudja, and others, but everyone has heard of Technicolor—unless they’ve recently arrived from Krypton. Technicolor hopes to use its name recognition to promote Marseille’s technology. If this works out, expect to see the Technicolor name on a variety of future products that offer 4K upconversion. Likely candidates include Blu-ray players, A/V receivers, and perhaps stand-alone processors. I’d add televisions as well, but many HDTV manufacturers have a not-invented-here mindset.

The point I made above about the upconverted 4K looking a shade sharper than true 4K is an experience I’ve also had in Sony demonstrations. It may result in a slightly too ambitious use of enhancement to overcome inherent upconversion losses. I hope that when Technicolor/Marseille upconversion (or anyone elses) is included in products, or at least in products likely to appeal to serious videophiles, it offers a choice of several enhancement modes, from virtually none (or at least only enough to overcome upconversion losses, perhaps erring a bit on the conservative side) up to whatever the intended market, or marketers, require. The Marseilles reps commented that consumers in some markets actually like over-cooked sharpness enhancement in their HD (?) images! Offering a variety of options would allow the end user to tune out those over-eager designers at Edgy-R-Us Video.
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post #653 of 909 Old 09-20-2013, 10:12 PM
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Frys had some 4k titles for $6.99
I found these prices in store as well.

http://www.frys.com/product/7699447?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

http://www.frys.com/product/7699437?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

I seen Spider-Man in store for $6.99 and one other title that I can't recall.

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post #654 of 909 Old 09-21-2013, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by gem1201 View Post

Their demo used two Sony 55-inch 4K flat screen Ultra HDTVs. The first comparison had native 4K on one display and Marseille’s upconversion of a 2K original on the other. There were essentially no visible differences, though if pressed I’d say that some scenes looked marginally sharper on the upconverted version.

No visible differences between native 4k and upscaled 2k begs the question of why anyone is bothering with 4k sources for screen sizes less than 60" in the first place.

It would have been interesting to see a comparison with the 2k version on a 55" Sony 2k screen. I would hazzard a guess that at nominal viewing distances there also would have been little visible difference.
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post #655 of 909 Old 09-21-2013, 01:22 PM
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I just watched Taxi driver back to back... 4k versus original release.

there is no comparison. while the movie suffers from issues with the original media Scorsese used, the 4k version was MUCH better experience. tonal qualities and the "hand" on the image was incredibly smooth.


speaking of Laser disks... I still have BOXES of constant angular velocity laser disks sitting in my garage if anyone wants them...
it's so sad to have built a collection where the initial invest MUST have been between $25k-$30k only to see them sitting in a pile and basically worth nothing.

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post #656 of 909 Old 09-21-2013, 02:01 PM
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Is there a new list of upcoming Mi4K titles? I can't wait to buy more of these.

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post #657 of 909 Old 09-21-2013, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buurke View Post

You are extremely focussed on the free space left unused, but the other limitation is the A/V total bitrate (bandwidth) which can't exceed 48 Mbps.
The fact that the disc has lots of free space, doesn't mean that they didn't "max out" the full potential.

With 34 Mbps for the video alone on these Mastered in 4K titles you are pretty close to the limit.
The other reason why they want to stay away from encoding right on the limit, is to avoid playback problems (hickups, artifacts, freezing etc) on Blu-ray players from all brands.


I thought the limit for Blu-ray bandwidth for just the video is 40 Mbps. In that case, 34 Mbps for the video portion does not seem close to that limit.


On a bigger note, could you please explain why if a disc still has lots of free space left over, how can that extra free space not be used for anything extra?


Free space to me simply means free space. So therefore, there has been no "max out" to the full potential of what the disc can hold if there is still free space left over on the disc.

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post #658 of 909 Old 09-21-2013, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Is there a new list of upcoming Mi4K titles? I can't wait to buy more of these.

The line was just put out to tie in with Sony's 4K TVs and with a 4K Blu-ray launch imminent at next year's CES, there will likely be no more of them though Sony is switching to 4K mastering for new movies, so that will filter down to the 1080p Blu-Rays they put out.
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post #659 of 909 Old 09-21-2013, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post

On a bigger note, could you please explain why if a disc still has lots of free space left over, how can that extra free space not be used for anything extra?


Free space to me simply means free space. So therefore, there has been no "max out" to the full potential of what the disc can hold if there is still free space left over on the disc.

Because adding extras means paying extra royalties (usually a lump sum + percentage of sales). With the very low numbers of discs being released (say 5000 copies instead of 50,000 copies) the pro ration of the lump sum becomes extremely expensive.

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post #660 of 909 Old 09-21-2013, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Because adding extras means paying extra royalties (usually a lump sum + percentage of sales). With the very low numbers of discs being released (say 5000 copies instead of 50,000 copies) the pro ration of the lump sum becomes extremely expensive.

I do understand that as stated earlier in the thread. The confusing issue for me is when Vortex3D wrote;

"The fact that the disc has lots of free space, doesn't mean that they didn't "max out" the full potential."

So what does that mean? To me, free space left over on a disc does not necessarily mean the disc has out used it's potential.

Regardless if the free space is going to be used or not, I can care less at this point.

You see, the way Vortex3D statement reads, it's as if; BECAUSE of the high bandwidth used for these special Blu-rays, is why what looks like extra space on a disc; is actually used up because the disc has already reached it's potential.

At least that's the way I'm understanding his comment. It's confusing to me because the comment does not seem logical or factual. And, almost as if what looks like extra space is somehow being used for that extra bandwidth so therefore, it just looks like blank space.

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