AVS Can't-Wait Special—"Mastered in 4K" Blu-Ray Releases - Page 30 - AVS Forum
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post #871 of 909 Old 06-17-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
To make this easy to understand. You will not be having a 4K picture on your 1080P TV.
Read EVERYTHING I wrote again. Pay attention. I never made such a claim.


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post #872 of 909 Old 06-17-2014, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by fatherom View Post
Read EVERYTHING I wrote again. Pay attention. I never made such a claim.
Huh? You just made that argument in multiple posts that higher rendering brings a higher picture quality.

Now you say it does not?

I'm so confused.
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post #873 of 909 Old 06-17-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
Huh? You just made that argument in multiple posts that higher rendering brings a higher picture quality.

Now you say it does not?

I'm so confused.
Ugh. This is like talking to my in-laws. I never said anything about "higher rendering". You're constantly misquoting me.

You said "you won't get a 4K picture on a 1080p TV", to which I replied "I never made that claim". And I did NOT make that claim.

I agree with you on ONE point...when something is 1080p, it's 1080p. Yes, you're right, you can't see a 4K image on a 1080p display.

What I AM saying (and all I've ever said) is that the quality of the source from which you create that 1080p image matters. And if it's an analog source (film), the conversion from analog to digital matters.

I'm really done trying to explain this to you.
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post #874 of 909 Old 06-18-2014, 08:59 AM
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LOL Andy, what planet are you from? This is pretty entertaining.
*popcorn*
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post #875 of 909 Old 06-18-2014, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by theatredaz View Post
*Ok so Yes...the film was just scanned and copied to Digital. (non 4k digital source)

* The question is...What resolution was the original Film? Was it 720, the detail is rather low> but better than the dvd> but still looks as though the bluray was encoded using an AVI mpeg codec or something.

I'll make a rough estimate as to why the Film looks so poor. Film costs lots of money, back then Film by the foot was probably $10-20> production wanted to keep a low budget for the film so instead they used> Discarded film sold cheaply to them to make the movie (Old film unused from other films)> Ok so they buy cheaper film reel etc> then when they start using it> the film wasn't stored properly, and had WAY too much film grain from dust accumalation where it was stored> therefore poorly stored used film is the cause of Fuzzy low resolution image.
Film is analog and cannot be measured in pixel resolution. Different film stocks (and different shooting conditions) will yield images with differing amounts of visible detail.

What movie are you talking about now? Ghostbusters was not a low budget production.

The first Blu-ray release of Ghostbusters looks so grainy because it's a crappy film transfer, simple as that. The Mastered in 4k Blu-ray of Ghostbusters is a much better film transfer and does not look as grainy.

Perhaps if you actually watched these discs before commenting on them, that might help the conversation here.
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post #876 of 909 Old 06-18-2014, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherom View Post
And I'm not talking about what the master "was shot on". I'm talking about scanning film at 4K (or 8K) levels. If you have a better scan from the original film, you have a better quality image to work with and compress back down to 1080p. Makes perfect sense to me. And later, when 4K (or 8K) are commonplace, we'll benefit even more.

Do some research on the benefits of film scanning at higher resolutions. This topic has been beaten to death for years on these forums.

Josh Z, can you lend some sanity to this?
You've done a good job explaining this. CinemaAndy is being willfully obtuse. I doubt that anything I could say would get through to him either.

Oversampling an image at a high resolution (4k) and then downconverting to the target resolution (1080p) has benefits over scanning natively at the target. This is a well established principle in digital imaging, but I'm sure that Andy won't be convinced by the science.
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post #877 of 909 Old 06-18-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Film is analog and cannot be measured in pixel resolution. Different film stocks (and different shooting conditions) will yield images with differing amounts of visible detail.

What movie are you talking about now? Ghostbusters was not a low budget production.

The first Blu-ray release of Ghostbusters looks so grainy because it's a crappy film transfer, simple as that. The Mastered in 4k Blu-ray of Ghostbusters is a much better film transfer and does not look as grainy.

Perhaps if you actually watched these discs before commenting on them, that might help the conversation here.
*Im talking about the Ghostbusters transfer.

* Ive already posted Images form the 1080p Bluray I have, they dont look too well. And dont see the 4k Mastered being much better unless your the type that can tell if a razor is dull by just looking at it.
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post #878 of 909 Old 06-18-2014, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theatredaz View Post
*Im talking about the Ghostbusters transfer.

* Ive already posted Images form the 1080p Bluray I have, they dont look too well. And dont see the 4k Mastered being much better unless your the type that can tell if a razor is dull by just looking at it.
All of this recent discussion HAS to be a put on, right?!? This is like an episode of Candid Camera or something? Am I being punk'd?


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post #879 of 909 Old 06-18-2014, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Perhaps if you actually watched these discs before commenting on them, that might help the conversation here.
Logic would dictate that, unfortunately more and more forum members tend to comment on things that they've never tried.

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post #880 of 909 Old 06-18-2014, 05:25 PM
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logic would dictate that, unfortunately more and more forum members tend to comment on things that they've never tried.
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post #881 of 909 Old 06-18-2014, 05:30 PM
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This is all marketing play by SONY remember DVDs! Platinum, and so on I will wait for the true 4K BR movies
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post #882 of 909 Old 06-18-2014, 07:22 PM
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Theatredaz, looking at screen caps does not equal to experiencing it yourself, it's akin to commenting on the quality of a sound system using a recording and listening to the sound on YouTube.

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post #883 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Theatredaz, looking at screen caps does not equal to experiencing it yourself, it's akin to commenting on the quality of a sound system using a recording and listening to the sound on YouTube.
Are you saying you don't like YouTube speaker reviews? I love hearing dat bass thump through smartphone microphones!

Why are most of the posts in this thread appearing as hyperlinks?
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post #884 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 06:30 AM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
Are you saying you don't like YouTube speaker reviews? I love hearing dat bass thump through smartphone microphones!

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post #885 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
Theatredaz, looking at screen caps does not equal to experiencing it yourself, it's akin to commenting on the quality of a sound system using a recording and listening to the sound on YouTube.
*Well...the pics I posted are directly from a Bluray Disc it actually does look like Im viewing the movie via Youtube...lol.

*Bad Bluray (.)
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post #886 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by theatredaz View Post
*Im talking about the Ghostbusters transfer.

* Ive already posted Images form the 1080p Bluray I have, they dont look too well. And dont see the 4k Mastered being much better unless your the type that can tell if a razor is dull by just looking at it.
It's not just "4K-mastered". It's a new scan, new workflow, and mastered differently. It uses xvYcc color, metadata for Sony tri-stimulus displays and 4K upscaling algorithms, and a higher bitrate. Good on Sony for elevating the standard.

Not all of Sony's "4K-mastered" are new scans, but this one and other older films like Spider-man and Men in Black are new scans. So at the very least they will benefit just like any other studio that has released a remastered version (eg: The Terminator, Fifth Element, Patton, French Connection, Gladiator, Gangs of New York, etc). Other studios remaster and re-issue their blu-rays all the time, just without the marketing badge that Sony is using. Instead of crying foul we should be happy they have made improvements.
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post #887 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 09:02 AM
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* Here is what I think the 4k transfer will bring to the image, take the ipad for example, the older ipads had large pixels that could be seen by the retina...play a DVD on that and you could be disappointed, now take the newer ipads with retina display...play the same dvd and the DVD looks much finer and smoother looking, why because they increased each pixel per mm etc...so now you cant see the pixel moire anymore.

With the 4k Transfers this is what theyre gonna doo...take the original, shoot it through a 10k display, then digitaly RECORD the image through the 4k - 10k display and, Bango youve got a smoother looking transfer, elbeit with film grain removed.

* I think its a neat trick that could work.
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post #888 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 09:34 AM
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^^^ so many things wrong with that post, I don't even know where to start. My head hurts.

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post #889 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theatredaz View Post
*Im talking about the Ghostbusters transfer.

* Ive already posted Images form the 1080p Bluray I have, they dont look too well. And dont see the 4k Mastered being much better unless your the type that can tell if a razor is dull by just looking at it.
I'm not sure what part of this conversation isn't getting through to you.

Yes, we know that the first Blu-ray release of Ghostbusters looks bad. It was a bad video transfer. Sony screwed it up. It sucks.

The Mastered in 4k disc is a completely different video transfer and is much better.

You say that you "dont see the 4k Mastered being much better." How would you know if you haven't watched it? Those of us who have watched it are telling you that it looks much better.

Looking crappy is not an inherent trait of this movie. The first Blu-ray was just a botch job. The Mastered in 4k disc fixes that with a brand new transfer that starts over from scratch.

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post #890 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 10:50 AM
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* Heres a concept:

I have to build a road from point A to point B. The road is straight, I only have asphlat to make it with., and its only 1 mile.

Shoot...we have to remaster the road because we botched it.......
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post #891 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theatredaz View Post
* Heres a concept:

I have to build a road from point A to point B. The road is straight, I only have asphlat to make it with., and its only 1 mile.

Shoot...we have to remaster the road because we botched it.......


I'm sorry, but this really has to stop. Please let the intelligent discourse return.


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post #892 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 11:48 AM
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LOL...too funny.

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post #893 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 04:00 PM
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I have to point out again that '4K upscaling algorithms' is just marketing BS and nothing else. It does not matter how many times it is bogusly stated it is still just marketing BS.
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post #894 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 04:05 PM
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I have to point out again that '4K upscaling algorithms' is just marketing BS and nothing else. It does not matter how many times it is bogusly stated it is still just marketing BS.
If an original film negative is scanned at 4K, mastered properly, and then downscaled to 1080p to be put on a blu-ray, that is not marketing BS and it is not bogus.


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post #895 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 06:41 PM
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It's amazing how much confusion these Sony Mi4K titles have caused even on enthusiast forums. I can see why they are not marketing these in any real way any longer.

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post #896 of 909 Old 06-19-2014, 06:56 PM
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What I find amazing is the lack of understanding of such simple product.

1. The movies are mastered in 4K, which mean the movie is NOT in 4K
2. The movies may have Triluminos colour gamut, which clearly means you'll need BD player and display that can reproduce Triluminos colour gamut
3. "Mastered in 4K" contains flag that works well with displays with "Mastered in 4K" option. Try it yourself setting the display 4K upscaler between "auto" vs "Mi4K" option and judge for yourself.

There is no need to have a thread that goes around and around discussing yhe same thing over and over again with a bunch of detractors who never actually tested these discs on a triluminous BD player and display (calibrated, of course) with Mi4K capability.

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post #897 of 909 Old 06-20-2014, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theatredaz View Post
* Heres a concept:

I have to build a road from point A to point B. The road is straight, I only have asphlat to make it with., and its only 1 mile.

Shoot...we have to remaster the road because we botched it.......
Here's a concept:

A student is in math class. The teacher tries to explain to him the basic concept that 2 + 2 = 4. The student insists that 2 + 2 = 5 and will not listen to the teacher.

The student flunks math, drops out of school, cannot get a job, is a complete failure at everything in life, and dies a homeless junkie on the street - all because he was too arrogant to learn anything from people smarter than himself.

The end.
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post #898 of 909 Old 06-20-2014, 12:09 PM
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...lol...you gotta love those kids...lol

anyhoo moving on.

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post #899 of 909 Old 06-20-2014, 12:24 PM
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Admit it, AVS, the recent forum maintenance was really just so you could add the new TR0LL_bot v2.3 artificial intelligence module...

Not so intelligent.
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post #900 of 909 Old 06-20-2014, 12:36 PM
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...lol...you gotta love those kids...lol

anyhoo moving on.
Sigh. This is like talking to a brick wall. Except that a brick wall at least serves some useful purpose.
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