AVS Can't-Wait Special—"Mastered in 4K" Blu-Ray Releases - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 909 Old 05-02-2013, 02:07 PM
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In the case og Total Recall, all the branching options, behind the scenes, trailers, commentaries, etc limit the bitrate to a miniscule amount (IIRC about 16 Mbps). So with this new version the studio almost double the video bitrate.

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post #92 of 909 Old 05-02-2013, 03:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

You are so right, aside from the fact that it looks great and it was a 4K Master, I have no right to claim anything!rolleyes.gif
He is right, though, regardless of how many times you roll your eyes.

You can't simplify it to just "this release had a 4K master and looks great, while the old release had a 2K master and looks significantly worse, therefore the 4K master made a significant difference in PQ," when there are more factors at play than just the resolution of the master used. As Josh pointed out, the film was restored extensively, so we really don't know how much of the improvement was due to the restoration and how much was due to the higher resolution of the new master.
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post #93 of 909 Old 05-02-2013, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Steeb View Post


He is right, though, regardless of how many times you roll your eyes.

You can't simplify it to just "this release had a 4K master and looks great, while the old release had a 2K master and looks significantly worse, therefore the 4K master made a significant difference in PQ," when there are more factors at play than just the resolution of the master used. As Josh pointed out, the film was restored extensively, so we really don't know how much of the improvement was due to the restoration and how much was due to the higher resolution of the new master.

 

You're correct, you don't know what contribution that aspect a (4K master) had in regards to the total quality of the presentation. But I do think it is a contributing factor and I am perfectly comfortable in saying so: A higher resolution master helped. I did not say that 4K mastering made all the difference I simply suggested that it made a difference, in my opinion. 
 
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post #94 of 909 Old 05-02-2013, 03:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

You're correct, you don't know what contribution that aspect a (4K master) had in regards to the total quality of the presentation. But I do think it is a contributing factor and I am perfectly comfortable in saying so: A higher resolution master helped. I did not say that 4K mastering made all the difference I simply suggested that it made a difference, in my opinion. 

 
I don't feel like arguing, if you believe otherwise that's great.
I probably wouldn't feel like arguing anymore either, if I were in your shoes.
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post #95 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

I dont really understand how it being mastered in 4K is really going to give us much benefit when our displays, blurray players, receivers, etc. are still only capable of 1080p....wouldnt it upscale the same way as any other 1080p signal to the display?

Refer back to my posts:

1. The main idea is about givingthe highest bitrate possible
2. I have compared regular Total Recall vs the high bitrate Total Recall upscaled by 1000ES, the difference due to much higher bitrate on the new release resulting in visily better 4K upscaling end result.
It would be interesting to see what a 2K scan BD with that same, higher, bitrate would look like for the same title. I would think you'd be hard pressed to see much of a difference between the 4K and 2K scan equal bit rate BDs when viewing.

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post #96 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 08:48 AM
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I certainly have NO issue whatsoever with Sony providing 4K masters for Blu-ray as opposed to 2K. I'm all for 4K DI's and masters whenever possible, if not higher. I wish that all films with shot with 65 or 70mm. The benefits of these kind of things are more than apparent on Blu-ray even at its loley 1080p resolution. With PT Anderson's The Master you can see just how spectacular a movie shot on 70mm can look and hope we'll see more films shot this way. I just don't like the idea of double dipping on something that was already done and saying it is somehow better. Especially if the title is almost brand new.

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post #97 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 11:17 AM
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I don't know if they had any 4K DIs to work with back that far??

Even if they didn't, they had a better (presumably 2k) master for The Fifth Element that they could have used for the first Blu-ray. The Ultimate Edition DVD wasn't coated in dirt or grime, and had (in some scenes) better detail than that crummy Blu-ray.

The remastered Blu-ray was of course a massive improvement.

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post #98 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

It would be interesting to see what a 2K scan BD with that same, higher, bitrate would look like for the same title. I would think you'd be hard pressed to see much of a difference between the 4K and 2K scan equal bit rate BDs when viewing.

larry

2K vs 4K master done to the same bitrate in theory should NOT make any difference in the end result. However, 4K master will be much easier to manipulate (post process) than 2K.

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post #99 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 03:09 PM
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Ghostbusters old versus new 4K remaster.

Not my screenshots.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/21921

Already, a few chinless wonders have been throwing around DNR, with regards to the 4K shot.
Personally, I see a more natural image, where blown out contrast isn't exaggerating the grain and giving a fake perception of increased sharpness.
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post #100 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 03:38 PM
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At the very least the increased bitrate is providing increased clarity and detail, not a stark contrast between SD to HD but appreciable for those who can see it. Simply imagine how much better all the low bitrate Warner titles would look with an increased average bitrate.

Ghostbusters actually looks film like in appearance now; without the boosted and clipped contrast the grain is no longer exaggerated. Does not seem to be DNRed.

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post #101 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 05:15 PM
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They should have done a better job on all their Blu-ray's in the first place... and all studios should have 4k mastered Blu-ray titles from now on all titles, not just these "superbit" versions. Inexcusable. They get plenty of our money every year. Stop giving it all to the talent and the producers and studio bosses, and putting some into the home video divisions. This is how films will live on... not in theaters, but in the home. The home video version should be top notch.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #102 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 05:52 PM
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cMIIW, I think Warner is the biggest offender in giving bit-starved BD by having too many movies on BD25

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post #103 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by raoul_duke View Post

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/21921

*happy dance*
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post #104 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

cMIIW, I think Warner is the biggest offender in giving bit-starved BD by having too many movies on BD25

They were a reluctant Blu-ray Disc Association member in the first place, and the home video mastering department never got past their "compressing for HD-DVD" mindset.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #105 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 06:22 PM
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By the way, on the 55" & 65" Sony 4K TVs, there is an upscaling mode called "Mastered in 4K".

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post #106 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 07:05 PM
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Well, I just want to know if The Amazing Spiderman still looks like a hazy, dull mess in this new re-mastered Blu-Ray release.
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post #107 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 07:29 PM
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post #108 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 07:38 PM
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Well, I just want to know if The Amazing Spiderman still looks like a hazy, dull mess in this new re-mastered Blu-Ray release.

Using vpl1000es, the difference is very noticable on both total recall and spiderman. On Ghostbusters, you'll need to be blind to not see the difference.

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post #109 of 909 Old 05-03-2013, 07:43 PM
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If Total Recall and Amazing Spiderman weren't over $30 and fell into the same price range as the others I'd be compelled to buy and compare. But $35 is a bit much considering the 3D steelbook release of Spiderman is only $20 at BB right now plus another $5 off for their upgrade and save. Most of the titles being offered initially in this run aren't any that I'm very interested in. I would love to see new remasters of older Sony releases that could probably use a new refresh.

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post #110 of 909 Old 05-04-2013, 12:33 AM
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Does anybody know if this new "4k" blu-ray of Total Recall is the theatrical cut or the extended cut?

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post #111 of 909 Old 05-04-2013, 05:35 AM
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"I have 4k!

"how much did that cost you?"

"$45 dollars!"

"no, you have a movie mastered in 4k but not a 4k TV."

"well, it's mastered in 4k, I don't understand"

I can see this being quite misleading for people that don't understand technology.
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post #112 of 909 Old 05-04-2013, 05:38 AM
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Ithink it's only a problem for people who don't have a grasp of the English language. biggrin.gif

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post #113 of 909 Old 05-04-2013, 06:24 AM
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I've dropped the size of these down drastically, but you still get an idea of just how improved the contrast is.*









*Not my screenshots.
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post #114 of 909 Old 05-04-2013, 09:29 AM
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Are people comparing these discs also using Triluminous supported players and TV's?

And was it determined that this Sony terminology means xvYCC color spacing, so you have more options of manufactured goods... or must you only use Sony "approved" devices to see any color benefits?

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #115 of 909 Old 05-04-2013, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Ithink it's only a problem for people who don't have a grasp of the English language. biggrin.gif

That's rather unfair. Not everybody is into this kind of tech stuff. That doesn't make them stupid. I'm into this stuff and all the industry double-talk and misleading marketing can certainly get confusing.

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post #116 of 909 Old 05-04-2013, 10:26 AM
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Millions of people have suffered with Sony in the past - Beta, MiniDisc, DAT and now their own 4K proprietary transmission technology, to name a few. There is a new HDMI 2.0 standard forthcoming within the next two months, much of which standardizes 4K transference, higher frame rates, deep color, etc.
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Based on HDMI Forum meetings it is expected that HDMI 2.0 will increase the maximum TMDS per channel throughput from 3.4 Gbit/s to 6 Gbit/s which would allow a maximum total TMDS throughput of 18 Gbit/s. This will allow HDMI 2.0 to support 4K resolution at 60 frames per second (fps). Other features that are expected for HDMI 2.0 include support for 4:2:0 chroma subsampling, support for 25 fps 3D formats, improved 3D capability, support for more than 8 channels of audio, support for the HE-AAC and DRA audio standards, dynamic auto lip-sync, and additional CEC functions.

So it's nice that they are spending the time, money and effort to remaster their movies in 4K, but there is no way I am personally making the high investment in either a 4K display now or 1080p content from a 4k master for slightly improved contrast, unless the discs were about the same price or within a few bucks. But more than double the price? No way!

The smart money is waiting for 4k hardware with the new HDMI 2.0 spec (since we are already this close to release) and avoiding the money pit of stop-gap measures in both media and hardware.


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post #117 of 909 Old 05-04-2013, 01:17 PM
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That's rather unfair. Not everybody is into this kind of tech stuff. That doesn't make them stupid. I'm into this stuff and all the industry double-talk and misleading marketing can certainly get confusing.

I don't mean stupid at all, there are genious (I personally know) who don't have a proper grasp of the English language (btw, English is my 4th language). But people should never assume because "this blu ray is mastered in 4K" is different than "this blu-ray is 4K".

Although I do agree (even many Sony reps agree) that they should just call the series as "superbit blu-ray" or "hi-bit blu-ray"

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post #118 of 909 Old 05-04-2013, 02:36 PM
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I think they should just call it Blu-ray and put this type of effort into their releases all the time instead of now making everyone second guess the quality of their standard Blu-ray releases. Does this give Sony reason to now dumb down their releases so they can get you to rebuy them in Super Blu-ray? This should have been the quality of all the releases so far, especially if the main difference is bit rate and contrast improvements.

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post #119 of 909 Old 05-04-2013, 02:41 PM
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For 1080p usage, the difference is not huge,however for Sony 4K TV, these discs have special metada for the upscaler plus the Triluminos thingie. Hence the Sony 4K TV built-in upscaler have the "Mastered in 4K" option.

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post #120 of 909 Old 05-04-2013, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

For 1080p usage, the difference is not huge,however for Sony 4K TV, these discs have special metada for the upscaler plus the Triluminos thingie. Hence the Sony 4K TV built-in upscaler have the "Mastered in 4K" option.

I think most of it comes down to the quality of the Blu-ray master in the first place. All studios' Blu-ray's should be "superbit" without the need for marketing doubletalk and spin.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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