RedBox Blu Ray with Dolby 5.1 only????? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 05-05-2013, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a question that has been bugging me for (quite) a while; has anyone else rented a Blu Ray from Red Box and discovered the audio is only DD 5.1?

I rented "The Hunger Games" when it was first released, and noticed when it started to play that my AVR was displaying "DD 5.1". A closer look at the disc showed it labeled DD 5.1. I tried it in other players/AVR set ups just to be sure, and yes it was only Dolby Digital 5.1.

I ended up calling Red Box, but the CSR really had no idea of what I was talking about when it came to the audio format.

So, am I the only one who has gotten a "5.1 audio Blu Ray"" Has anyone else come across this, and know of any reason why the discs were formatted this way? Again, just curious....

Sometimes I have to remind myself that I bought all this "stuff" to enjoy it!
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post #2 of 27 Old 05-05-2013, 06:22 AM
 
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They're rental only discs:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1470704/high-percentage-of-blu-rays-in-my-netflix-queue-have-downgraded-audio
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post #3 of 27 Old 05-05-2013, 06:23 AM
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There's a thread dedicated to these releases. I'd search for it a post it for you, but I'm currently mobile...

It should be noted that some retail discs come with DD vs DTSHDMA. I got burned by "Red" by buying the cheaper version.
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post #4 of 27 Old 05-05-2013, 06:50 AM
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Not all. I just got Silver Linings Playbook from Redbox and it was DTS MA 5.1. Certain discs / studios discs' that are rented have a lesser soundtrack version. A sign of the times.

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post #5 of 27 Old 05-05-2013, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Not all. I just got Silver Linings Playbook from Redbox and it was DTS MA 5.1. Certain discs / studios discs' that are rented have a lesser soundtrack version. A sign of the times.

I readily admit most of the Red Box Blu Rays that I've rented have been at least a DTS format, but I had never seen a Blu Ray with just DD 5.1. It just bothered me because I chased down the Blu Ray for the audio enhancement.

I'm presuming "Red" must have their own discs made somewhere/somehow, and can it really be that much more cost for DTS?

Sometimes I have to remind myself that I bought all this "stuff" to enjoy it!
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post #6 of 27 Old 05-05-2013, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

There's a thread dedicated to these releases. I'd search for it a post it for you, but I'm currently mobile...

It should be noted that some retail discs come with DD vs DTSHDMA. I got burned by "Red" by buying the cheaper version.

Thanks, I'll search for the thread. I just feel I also got a bit "burned" by this rental. I specifically chased down the Blu Ray version for the audio, and I had never seen a Blu Ray with only DD 5.1.

I also did not know that some retail discs only come with DD; a good heads up!

Sometimes I have to remind myself that I bought all this "stuff" to enjoy it!
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post #7 of 27 Old 05-05-2013, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizwiz41 View Post

Thanks, I'll search for the thread. I just feel I also got a bit "burned" by this rental. I specifically chased down the Blu Ray version for the audio, and I had never seen a Blu Ray with only DD 5.1.

I also did not know that some retail discs only come with DD; a good heads up!



It seems like the trend is going back to rentals with lossless audio again. I rent 2 to 3 new releases a week and haven't come across a BD with only lossy audio for several months.



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post #8 of 27 Old 05-06-2013, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

It seems like the trend is going back to rentals with lossless audio again. I rent 2 to 3 new releases a week and haven't come across a BD with only lossy audio for several months.



Ian

Interesting, so it seems this happens more than I thought. Originally, I perceived that this was a "defective" disc, that somehow the Blu Ray had been made incorrectly. To be fair, this is the only Blu Ray I've rented from "Red" that came this way.

What I have learned is there is no way to tell per the disc, and definitely per their generic cases. I now find myself putting a disc in the player to see what format it is in before watching the movie.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that I bought all this "stuff" to enjoy it!
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post #9 of 27 Old 05-06-2013, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizwiz41 View Post

I readily admit most of the Red Box Blu Rays that I've rented have been at least a DTS format, but I had never seen a Blu Ray with just DD 5.1. It just bothered me because I chased down the Blu Ray for the audio enhancement.

I'm presuming "Red" must have their own discs made somewhere/somehow, and can it really be that much more cost for DTS?

Redbox is subject to whatever the movie studios are willing to sell them as rental versions. Blame the studios as they seem to think you will run out and purchase the title because you were disappointed the rental version had only lossy audio. There is a cost issue sometimes also. If dropping lossless audio off the title permits the title to fit onto a single layer BD-ROM - they are probably saving a few pennies per disc.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #10 of 27 Old 05-06-2013, 11:18 AM
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My Total Recall was Dolby over the weekend. I watched about 45 minutes of it in stereo actually before I even caught on. Not really sure why my Dolby was set to play in stereo, but whatever. My receiver has a ‘Late Night’ feature for Dolby that I’m sure my bitchy neighbors liked for what limited time I used it – on the upside of Dolby only.

Total Recall is way better in 5.1 btw.

I don't often get Dolby only movies though - most are DTS that I've come across.
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post #11 of 27 Old 05-06-2013, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizwiz41 View Post

Thanks, I'll search for the thread. I just feel I also got a bit "burned" by this rental. I specifically chased down the Blu Ray version for the audio, and I had never seen a Blu Ray with only DD 5.1.

I also did not know that some retail discs only come with DD; a good heads up!

I've got a bunch of BDs I bought in 2006 and 2007 with DD 5.1.

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post #12 of 27 Old 05-07-2013, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Fastfwd View Post

My Total Recall was Dolby over the weekend. I watched about 45 minutes of it in stereo actually before I even caught on. Not really sure why my Dolby was set to play in stereo, but whatever. My receiver has a ‘Late Night’ feature for Dolby that I’m sure my bitchy neighbors liked for what limited time I used it – on the upside of Dolby only.

Total Recall is way better in 5.1 btw.

I don't often get Dolby only movies though - most are DTS that I've come across.

Was it Dolby TrueHD or just plain Dolby Digital 5.1? The copy I rented was Dolby TrueHD.
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post #13 of 27 Old 05-07-2013, 04:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OARevolution View Post

Was it Dolby TrueHD or just plain Dolby Digital 5.1? The copy I rented was Dolby TrueHD.

Interesting that some BDs (thru Red) are in Dolby TrueHD, while others are in DD 5.1. It makes me wonder why there would be different formats.

Again, the problem is that the discs do not state what the audio format is; you have to play it to find out.

My issue is that I rent the BDs for the audio. I'm sure everyone here has set ups that "upscale" a DVD to Hd, so the picture quality is nearly a tie. So, we rent the BD for the audio, and perhaps some of the "extras".

Sometimes I have to remind myself that I bought all this "stuff" to enjoy it!
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post #14 of 27 Old 05-07-2013, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by OARevolution View Post

Was it Dolby TrueHD or just plain Dolby Digital 5.1? The copy I rented was Dolby TrueHD.

Well, considering that I didn’t notice I had it in stereo until about 45 minutes passed – it might not be hard to imagine if I didn’t notice what flavor of Dolby it was in to begin with. I have an old school receiver with no HDMI anyway – so……

I had already seen both of the movies that I rented (had a coupon) in the theater. So, I actually did rent these with some expectation of what the sound was going to be like. I was just lazy about paying attention when I actually popped them in.
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post #15 of 27 Old 05-07-2013, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bizwiz41 View Post

Interesting that some BDs (thru Red) are in Dolby TrueHD, while others are in DD 5.1. It makes me wonder why there would be different formats.

Again, the problem is that the discs do not state what the audio format is; you have to play it to find out.

My issue is that I rent the BDs for the audio. I'm sure everyone here has set ups that "upscale" a DVD to Hd, so the picture quality is nearly a tie. So, we rent the BD for the audio, and perhaps some of the "extras".

Personally, I believe there is a far greater improvement in PQ than AQ when comparing an upconverted DVD with lossy audio to a full 1080p BD with lossless audio - but I surely agree we all invested in blu-ray to get improvements in both and it is very annoying when the movie studios play games with the quality for whatever reasons.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

Personally, I believe there is a far greater improvement in PQ than AQ when comparing an upconverted DVD with lossy audio to a full 1080p BD with lossless audio - but I surely agree we all invested in blu-ray to get improvements in both and it is very annoying when the movie studios play games with the quality for whatever reasons.

I totally agree. The PQ quality from a DVD compared to a well mastered Blu-ray should be hands down in the Blu-rays favor. The audio on the other hand is a little trickier. A high bit rate well mixed lossy track can sound wonderful, even when compared with the lossless version. But as you said, I have a blu-ray player for a reason and I want the highest quality possible. That goes for audio and video. It's just a ploy from the studios to get people to buy the discs rather than rent. All the discs I have rented lately have had their lossless audio intact, as was mentioned earlier in this thread. So it seems that they have stopped stripping the audio down to lossy codecs, at least for the time being.
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post #17 of 27 Old 05-08-2013, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OARevolution View Post

.... All the discs I have rented lately have had their lossless audio intact, as was mentioned earlier in this thread. So it seems that they have stopped stripping the audio down to lossy codecs, at least for the time being.

So, is it "Red", or the studios, that dictate these discs? I would presume that Red is simply looking for the cheapest product to rent out.

However, from a business side, it would seem that making a special production run of BD w/ DD 5.1 would actually cost more.....

Sometimes I have to remind myself that I bought all this "stuff" to enjoy it!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizwiz41 View Post

So, is it "Red", or the studios, that dictate these discs? I would presume that Red is simply looking for the cheapest product to rent out.

However, from a business side, it would seem that making a special production run of BD w/ DD 5.1 would actually cost more.....

Nobody ever said the movie studios make business decisions with both oars in the water . . . .

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #19 of 27 Old 05-09-2013, 06:15 AM
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If people stop using redbox and using a video store maybe that would make the studios situp
Video stores sell some later so they wont be adulterated
Here where I live not many are using rental boxes which is great

I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken
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post #20 of 27 Old 05-09-2013, 08:14 AM
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No video stores where I live. They are all gone. All I have is Red Box.

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post #21 of 27 Old 05-09-2013, 08:21 AM
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I’m embarrassed to confess that I haven’t really contemplated the audio quality improvement with Blu-ray this much, but I am now. My receiver and dvd player were originally purchased together to accommodate DVD Audio and I really haven’t considered the jump to a new receiver just for the audio of Blu-ray (and it’s still probably not going to happen anytime very soon).

You all might consider that I have probably the best home theater of anyone that I personally know for that matter. I would question how much of the Redbox market really gives a flip if it is the full quality audio, but I realize why someone would be disappointed if they have made the upgrades.

I recently just gave a lookover of the ‘home theater’ of a ‘friend’ (using the terms loosely). He’s rockin’ a (pretty sad) HTIB with a single optical audio input that is probably actually best utilized coming out of his new smart television and not his Playstation acting as his 3D Blu-ray player. This guy is a computer programmer and makes really pretty good money. Just sayin.
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post #22 of 27 Old 05-09-2013, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastfwd View Post

I’m embarrassed to confess that I haven’t really contemplated the audio quality improvement with Blu-ray this much, but I am now. My receiver and dvd player were originally purchased together to accommodate DVD Audio and I really haven’t considered the jump to a new receiver just for the audio of Blu-ray (and it’s still probably not going to happen anytime very soon).

You all might consider that I have probably the best home theater of anyone that I personally know for that matter. I would question how much of the Redbox market really gives a flip if it is the full quality audio, but I realize why someone would be disappointed if they have made the upgrades.

I recently just gave a lookover of the ‘home theater’ of a ‘friend’ (using the terms loosely). He’s rockin’ a (pretty sad) HTIB with a single optical audio input that is probably actually best utilized coming out of his new smart television and not his Playstation acting as his 3D Blu-ray player. This guy is a computer programmer and makes really pretty good money. Just sayin.

Yep - everyone has different hot buttons. I was a fairly serious audiophile before getting particularly involved in video so sound quality has always meant a lot. Not that lossless audio blows away good quality lossy audio - because most of the time there are improvements, but they are subtle and generally only obvious on a very good sound system (electronics and speakers).

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #23 of 27 Old 05-09-2013, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastfwd View Post

My Total Recall was Dolby over the weekend. I watched about 45 minutes of it in stereo actually before I even caught on. Not really sure why my Dolby was set to play in stereo, but whatever. My receiver has a ‘Late Night’ feature for Dolby that I’m sure my bitchy neighbors liked for what limited time I used it – on the upside of Dolby only.

Total Recall is way better in 5.1 btw.

I don't often get Dolby only movies though - most are DTS that I've come across.
You weren't running in Dolby Pro-Logic II accidentally were you? In can do some amazing things with stereo even these days.

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post #24 of 27 Old 01-16-2014, 08:46 AM
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This seems to be something dictated by the Studios specifically for "Rental" discs.. Lionsgate has been particularly bad about putting on DD 5.1 on Bluray discs. Not sure they are still doing it. I got bit by "Hunger Games". That was one I remember acutely.

I talked to Redbox about it. I told them it would be nice if on their website they would list the Audio tracks for the discs. Nothing worse than sitting down to watch and finding out you got a dumbed down version. Let's face it. Every main line movie has a DTS-MA or DD TRUEHD soundtrack. Doesn't really cost any extra to include it in the master so this is just the Studio's way of trying to slow down rentals and boost purchases.
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post #25 of 27 Old 01-16-2014, 12:42 PM
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post #26 of 27 Old 03-10-2014, 05:16 PM
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ok - first I've see where Redbox admits to doing this, using DD 5.1 not lossless to save $$.

AVS campaign time...or so what and move on with life?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I posted a "complaint" to RedBox, here it is, I'll post their answer
Quote:
Question Reference #xxxxxx-xxxxxx
Summary: General Question
Date Created: 03/10/2014 0x:xx AM
Last Updated: 03/10/2014 0x:xx AM
Status: Unresolved
What can we help you with?: General Question
We are here to assist you with: DVD/Blu Ray/Games Rental

DVD Rented
The Hunger Games: Catching Fire

Rental Location Address
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Discussion Thread
Customer By Web Form (mike r) 03/10/2014 0x:xx AM
Hi;
Transaction ID: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxblu-ray not have lossless audio - request refund
I rented The Hunger Games: Catching Fire.

It doe NOT contain lossless HD audio like Blu-ray should, rather only DolbyDigital 5.1 Audio.

Therefore I"m requesting a full refund of my $1.59.
Blu-ray touts both video and audio as highest quality. DD 5.1 is inferior.
please make clear to customer their Blu-ray may not contain HD audio

and their response,
Quote:
Subject
General Question

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (Redbox Support) 03/10/2014 0x:xx PM
Hello Mike,

Thank you for contacting Redbox Customer Care. We're sorry that the Blu ray you rented did not have the audio that you like. Please understand that to keep rental cost low, Redbox has made agreements with studios to provide DolbyDigital 5.1 audio on some of our Blu ray discs. We just ask that going forward you keep this in mind, so not all the Blu ray discs you rent will have the audio you are asking for.

We understand how disappointing it is when you're unable to rent something in the format you want Mike. As a one time courtesy, I’ve issued you a rental credit, good for free, one-day rental of any DVD or Blu-ray Disc of your choice. The credit is valid for 30 days from today's date.

• To use a credit at a box: at checkout, touch the USE CREDITS button. Then swipe a payment card associated with your redbox.com account, confirm your credits and finish checking out.

• To use a credit on redbox.com or the mobile app: on the checkout screen, check the box that says “use credits.” Then log in to the account associated with your credits, confirm your credits and finish checking out.

If you have any more questions, please visit https://redbox.custhelp.com

Thank you,

Redbox Customer Care
So, they have come "clean", admit they've negotiated using audio "downgrade" of DD 5.1 as cost cutting measure.

Now I've got the facts from them, so how does that make you feel?

I'd like to see a sign on all the Redbox machines:
"Warning: Blu-ray disc may not contain lossless audio (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, etc), may contain lossy audio format such as Dolby Digital 5.1 / DTS 5.1, you rent Blu-ray as is, no refunds given".


I posted this on Redbox comments to the movie, curious how long it lasts there before they delete the comment.
RedBox%2520audio.jpg
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post #27 of 27 Old 03-10-2014, 08:46 PM
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28 day delays and producing cheaper, single layer, lossy audio rental discs, is a policy agreed to by the vendor's and the studios to reduce costs and increase inventory. It's business. Fortunately this only applies to certain Lions Gate titles. If you want the retail version, you can either rent it from another source at a premium, or you can buy it.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430959/netflix-redbox-bds-without-dts-hd-master-audio-dd-5-1-instead/800_100#post_24381510


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