Halloween 35th Anniversary - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post

For me, the preference for the mono track is about much more than "triangles added to the music"; it's the whole mix... it's the whole atmosphere. I've enjoyed HALLOWEEN all my life (I'm currently 42) and I know what HALLOWEEN is supposed to sound like. For me, it's an amazing lo-fi experience; the music isn't supposed to fill the sound-stage in the HALLOWEEN that I love, it's supposed to hit hard from the center.
Extremely well-put. The sad thing is, it's hard to get people these days to take the time to really soak in something as supposedly antiquated as a mono track and really understand that. So to address the person you responded to...that's why I stick to the "more obvious" differences (a triangle being there in one mix and not in another) that the layperson who may not otherwise care can easily hear. But no, that's not even the beginning of the differences between the original mono and this supposedly original mono.
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post #92 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 01:01 PM
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Has Anchor Bay had any response here? Sometimes I wonder if they do this stuff on purpose so that no release is ever perfect and we can keep having reasons for another version....

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post #93 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 01:19 PM
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A side note to all of this discussion of color timing and audio changes....

All of my Google research and clicking links that others have posted (across three forums) has proven one thing... THESE VERY SAME ISSUES (color timing and mono audio) were hotly debated in 2007 when the first Blu-ray was released and in 1999 when the THX DVD was released.

Rinse, wash, repeat!

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post #94 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 02:16 PM
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So much great info here guys. Thanks! for sharing.smile.gif
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post #95 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 04:27 PM
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But back to the topic at hand. I had an idea that maybe the downmixed 35th mono was simply a port of the downmix on the TV version (disc 2) of the limited edition. I was hoping to corroborate this by seeing if perhaps the clicking gun effect was absent in that mix, since it was likely something not a lot of people thought to check against. Alas, the click is there as well. That being the case, I'm not sure why it isn't there on the new 35th mono track. The only possibility really left is that this downmix was newly done from the 7.1, and it simply lost that element due to the slightly different mixing of the 7.1 (as opposed to the 5.1). Oh well. I was hoping to find a source for this "new" mono track, but I guess there just isn't one. See, I can admit when I'm wrong, too. wink.gif
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post #96 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Although I believe the thx mono sounds superior, Im still not convinced it is the original.
Should I assume, then, that you're also unconvinced that all prior "original mono" tracks have been original? Since they're identical, that's really all you could conclude. I'm not trying to be argumentative in the slightest by posing that question. I'm genuinely curious if you think that's a possibility (which I do admittedly concede in the audio). But even if so...is it more likely that they've all been altered up to this point or that this one is just mislabeled?
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post #97 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 05:26 PM
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So much great info here guys. Thanks! for sharing.smile.gif
Absolutely. smile.gif
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post #98 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 05:39 PM
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This quote from the Hi-Fi Digest review expresses the same type of disapointment I felt: "However, we still must contend with the fact that the story loses some of its effectiveness when it no longer feels like it takes place on Halloween night. "

That nails it for me. The new transfer just doesn't *feel* like Halloween night for me anymore. It really loses something from this. Again, this is a subjective opinion/reaction, but I know I'm not the only one who
finds the new color timing a bit of a bummer.
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post #99 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

This quote from the Hi-Fi Digest review expresses the same type of disapointment I felt: "However, we still must contend with the fact that the story loses some of its effectiveness when it no longer feels like it takes place on Halloween night. "

That nails it for me. The new transfer just doesn't *feel* like Halloween night for me anymore. It really loses something from this. Again, this is a subjective opinion/reaction, but I know I'm not the only one who
finds the new color timing a bit of a bummer.
Yeah, it almost makes me regret that the 1999 color timing was ever done in a way. If it hadn't been, we wouldn't have that in our minds to compare this release to and it'd be more readily embraced just for being true to source. It really muddies the waters to have an alternate color timing that so many prefer, revisionist or not. I think at this point, the only release Anchor Bay could possibly offer that would please everyone would have the original color timing, the fall color timing, the 7.1 audio, the *unaltered* original mono track, and the extended cut, all as a customizable viewing experience via seamless branching. Tall order...but what a release that would be! lol
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post #100 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 06:35 PM
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The 7.1 mix is really just the Chance 5.1 mix with the L+R surrounds mirrored by the back surrounds.
The new "mono" mix is based on the Chance mix but altered very strangely.

On the scene where you can't hear what Laurie and her Dad are saying, all you can hear is the synth track- and the synth sounds really weird. Like the isolated it and slowed it down.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
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post #101 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 07:00 PM
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Am I really the only one who has noticed the softer quality of the sound on this new release?

If you have the previous Blu-Ray put it on and compare - notice how the first Blu-Ray has a slightly (but noticeably to me) more present and solid sound quality, even with the opening music.
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post #102 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 07:18 PM
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There's been a number of sporadic posts on Blu-ray.com complaining about the volume levels of certain aspects of the sound (both mono and 7.1), but it's rarely been mentioned in reviews. The problem is that too many reviewers just aren't that familiar enough with the material to comment confidently on the audio, so it's easier to simply accept any old track when it comes to movies that are over 30yrs old with the resignation that: "well, you can't expect it to sound that good". I know I've been guilty of that (as a reviewer on another site) and imo I think Robert Harris's 5/5 rating for the audio over at HomeTheatre Forum probably has more than a little of that mindset in it as well.
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post #103 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croweyes1121 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Although I believe the thx mono sounds superior, Im still not convinced it is the original.
Should I assume, then, that you're also unconvinced that all prior "original mono" tracks have been original? Since they're identical, that's really all you could conclude. I'm not trying to be argumentative in the slightest by posing that question. I'm genuinely curious if you think that's a possibility (which I do admittedly concede in the audio). But even if so...is it more likely that they've all been altered up to this point or that this one is just mislabeled?

I honestly don't know. You are probably right, but I cant say that with 100%. Any luck with forwarding your info to Hunt?
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post #104 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

The new "mono" mix is based on the Chance mix but altered very strangely.
That's precisely my assessment as well.
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post #105 of 305 Old 09-26-2013, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Any luck with forwarding your info to Hunt?
I've emailed the audio to him, but no response yet. But he's always been a good guy, and he does care about these releases. I'm sure he'll chime in when time permits.
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post #106 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Am I really the only one who has noticed the softer quality of the sound on this new release?

If you have the previous Blu-Ray put it on and compare - notice how the first Blu-Ray has a slightly (but noticeably to me) more present and solid sound quality, even with the opening music.

The softer quality is the way I remember it in the theater in 1978. I know people will bash me for that statement, however I do remember hearing for the first time on the first DVD release how compressed the audio is (at the beginning) and how it pierced it's tones strikingly through the air, it was intense. I liked it, and I remembered at that time thinking I had not heard the opening music quite like that before. However after your comment, I now realize they may have compressed the audio on the DVD version to terrorize the audience from the very start. If there was any adjustments in the audio in the newest version, it's possible it was altered so it would sound more like it did in theatres while playing in a home theatre. In a home theatre, the listener is more likely to hear most if not all of the direct sounds when compared to the signal one hears while in a theatre, especially with the audio equipment and seating arrangements usually found in theatres in 1978.

On the other hand, it's possible the audio from the original film is the same quality "compression wise" when compared to how the audio sounded on the very first DVD. So how can it sound different to me? Well, the difference being able to hear for the first time (in a home theatre,) the audio signal that was much closer to the original source (or even from the master recordings) when compared to the many generations away from the original master recording on the optical track from a actual road print. And don't forget, the sound quality differences also includes the loss of audio quality brought on by optical soundtracks. Optical soundtracks inherently don't allow for a full frequency response and don't allow for as wide of a dynamic range when compared to magnetic recordings.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
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post #107 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 03:31 AM
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By the way, I'd like to ring in about all this talk about differences with the mono soundtrack throughout the years on various home video releases. I think this can be settled by listening to the audio track of the very first VHS release of this movie.

Like in my very long post earlier in this thread, it's very likely the source used at that time would have been from a decent road print. Typically in those early days of home video, just being able to watch a movie uncut and without any commercials at home was a major improvement than what anyone could get or imagine seeing on network TV. Concern about quality of the video and audio reproduction didn't come till some years later.


Back to the point. Checking out the audio on the very first home video release of Halloween would have used the very same source people would have seen and heard in the theatres during it's release in 1978.


Side note: Of course today with the advancement of home electronics, many (not all,) can see and hear these movies with much better quality than how they were originally presented in the theatre.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
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post #108 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 04:11 AM
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so is this the best (PQ) we can ever hope to get or might there exist another release in the near future with a new remaster?...I was reading the review from High-Def Digest where the reviewer was really disappointed with the PQ with this new release and calls it only a slight upgrade from the 2007 Blu-ray...

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/9402/halloween_35th.html
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post #109 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 04:32 AM
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so is this the best (PQ) we can ever hope to get or might there exist another release in the near future with a new remaster?...I was reading the review from High-Def Digest where the reviewer was really disappointed with the PQ with this new release and calls it only a slight upgrade from the 2007 Blu-ray...

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/9402/halloween_35th.html
To be fair, most of the justification he has for lowering the score is due to his personal preference for another color timing. If you prefer the warmer palette of the THX DVD, I'd stay away from this. But if you can adjust to a cooler look, this release is miles better than the film has ever looked - on a technical level alone, aesthetic preferences aside.
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post #110 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
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By the way, I'd like to ring in about all this talk about differences with the mono soundtrack throughout the years on various home video releases. I think this can be settled by listening to the audio track of the very first VHS release of this movie.
Yeah, that's certainly ideal. The only report I've heard regarding VHS copies was in regard to the gun click at the end. A German dub copy did not have the sound, while someone else's domestic VHS copy did. I can't vouch for exactly which release either of those copies were from, however (they were supposedly from the very early 80's). As far as my own personal collection, I can only go back as far as a VHS copy I purchased in the early 90's. It's worth noting, though, that that gun click is present on that VHS copy, my Criterion laser, all three mixes on the 1999 theatrical DVD, the downmix on the TV version disc from 1999, all three mixes on the 2007 blu-ray, and all but the mono mix of this new release. That's why I'm erring on the side of calling this one track the anomaly, and not all of those others (especially considering we already know the new track is mislabeled, considering it features elements from the 5.1 mix which no one had ever heard until 1999).
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post #111 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

I try to stay consistent with my expectations of a movie presented on Blu-ray (and with DVD before that). And those expectations are that the movie should look (and sound) as close as possible to how it was originally projected theatrically. (Yes, yes, I know the theatrical presentations varied by theater, projector and projectionist. I'm talking about the filmmakers' original intent.)

how on Earth can someone even remember with such clarity exactly how a movie was projected theatrically?...especially a 35 year old movie...photographic memories?...a movie should be presented on Blu-ray the same as it was projected in theatres but you have to rely on the people who shot the movie to provide such definitive claims on color timings etc...relying on fans of the movie (no matter how many times they saw the movie in theatres) is not accurate as they will let their own biases and subjective memories take over
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post #112 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 06:34 AM
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Thanks! Croweyes1121.
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post #113 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 06:36 AM
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Thanks! Croweyes1121.
You're quite welcome. smile.gif
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post #114 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 06:39 AM
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I just played the scene where Loomis shoots MM and there definitely is a click when the gun is empty. My source is the Meda VHS tape from 1979. As far as I know, this was the first video release of Halloween. Hope this helps in your research.smile.gif


I can't believe how bad the picture looks! I guess HD has spoiled us.
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post #115 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 07:00 AM
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I just played the scene where Loomis shoots MM and there definitely is a click when the gun is empty. My source is the Meda VHS tape from 1979. As far as I know, this was the first video release of Halloween.
Awesome info, thank you!

EDIT: If you have the opportunity, do us a favor and check out the opening sting when Myers looks up at the window, the sting during Annie's death scene, and the music cue at the end of the film (see my audio, posted earlier). I have no doubt that these elements sound the same on that VHS tape as they did on the 1999 THX DVD, but there's still *some* doubt out there from folks that that track was/is original. The audio from your copy matching up with it should put that concern to rest once and for all. Again, thanks much for the trouble. It's greatly appreciated.
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post #116 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 09:29 AM
 
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Quote:
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Again, thank you. Yeah, I honestly never meant to rub anyone wrong over there, but people seemed more interested in arguing over nonsense and asserting things that I knew were perpetuating confusion in others than actually answering questions, which did admittedly frustrate me. As far as the ban, it simply said trolling. First time I've ever seen staying on topic, refraining from insults of any kind, and just trying (albeit desperately) to get to to bottom of a technical issue "trolling". I even sent the webmaster a reply, saying I was surprised at being banned considering some of the things that were said by others (I was from Georgia, so I must have sex with animals, etc), and unsurprisingly, they didn't bother to explain. Another reason I won't be posting there again. In any case, people seem to care far more here about the things that matter.

As someone who was actually reading the thread when you were suspended, I'd say that the accusation of trolling was spot-on. And it's not like you weren't warned by your peers that your constant demands for others to do what you want, when you want it, had devolved into trolling and thread-crapping. You just wanted to argue and continue your unreasonable demands, all while reminding everyone that you had not purchased the disc in question and had no intention of ever doing so.

If you had made the request once and then waited patiently for someone to fulfill your request, you would still be able to participate in the discussion over at the other site. That is a fact. Your claim that you now have no interest in posting over there simply reeks of sour grapes, considering you had to be forcibly removed from the discussion.

You posted 63 times in that thread in one day (not counting any that were deleted by mods.) You really think what you were doing was reasonable or rational?
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post #117 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
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Awesome info, thank you!

EDIT: If you have the opportunity, do us a favor and check out the opening sting when Myers looks up at the window, the sting during Annie's death scene, and the music cue at the end of the film (see my audio, posted earlier). I have no doubt that these elements sound the same on that VHS tape as they did on the 1999 THX DVD, but there's still *some* doubt out there from folks that that track was/is original. The audio from your copy matching up with it should put that concern to rest once and for all. Again, thanks much for the trouble. It's greatly appreciated.

I just checked the scenes that you listed and they all sounded like the THX DVD clips in your audio that you posted. For what it's worth, I do appreciate your passion on this matter. I might not really care about it, but I do applaud your efforts... Good luck!
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post #118 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Dolittle View Post

I just checked the scenes that you listed and they all sounded like the THX DVD clips in your audio that you posted. For what it's worth, I do appreciate your passion on this matter. I might not really care about it, but I do applaud your efforts... Good luck!
Thanks so much. You're awesome for going through the trouble. I hope that puts the question of whether the previous release's mono tracks were unaltered to rest. I'm glad it's been answered. smile.gif
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post #119 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 10:30 AM
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Is is not sad that, for some reason, we get excited at the prospect of a bluray release (or re-release in some instances) of a film near and dear to us, only to find out 'something is not right' with it.
Be it proper framing, correct aspect ratio, color timing, audio, edits.....maddening!

It makes me wonder who is in charge in these decisions and why more thought and attention to detail is not being used.
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post #120 of 305 Old 09-27-2013, 10:49 AM
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Is is not sad that, for some reason, we get excited at the prospect of a bluray release (or re-release in some instances) of a film near and dear to us, only to find out 'something is not right' with it.
Be it proper framing, correct aspect ratio, color timing, audio, edits.....maddening!

It makes me wonder who is in charge in these decisions and why more thought and attention to detail is not being used.
It'd make far too much sense to put people in charge of releasing these films who actually have a passion for doing so properly. Stop applying logic to the corporate world, sir! lol
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