Wong Kar Wai's The Grandmaster 2013 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 108 Old 03-04-2014, 10:22 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Weinsteins mandate that Wong provide them with a shorter cut or they'd remove a half-hour themselves? In order to make the film coherent, he had to restructure it and shift the focus of the storyline. In that sense, the movie is still hacked-up.

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post #92 of 108 Old 03-04-2014, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Weinsteins mandate that Wong provide them with a shorter cut or they'd remove a half-hour themselves? In order to make the film coherent, he had to restructure it and shift the focus of the storyline. In that sense, the movie is still hacked-up.

That's your opinion. Have you seen both versions? Once Weinstein acquired the rights to the film, they could do whatever they liked to it. So instead of having it butchered by Weinstein, WKW edited the film to make it coherent to stress the theme that Weinstein wanted. Hint: at The Academy screening there was a big sign saying Ip Man. If you ever see the 130 minute version, be sure to watch the bonus features that contain the genesis of the movie and how it evolved.
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post #93 of 108 Old 03-04-2014, 11:54 AM
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That's your opinion. Have you seen both versions? Once Weinstein acquired the rights to the film, they could do whatever they liked to it. So instead of having it butchered by Weinstein, WKW edited the film to make it coherent to stress the theme that Weinstein wanted. Hint: at The Academy screening there was a big sign saying Ip Man. If you ever see the 130 minute version, be sure to watch the bonus features that contain the genesis of the movie and how it evolved.

Which version of the movie did Wong Kar Wai want to make? If given the choice, which version would he want viewers to watch?

Yes, as owners, the Weinsteins can do whatever they want to a film they've paid for. That doesn't make what they do right.

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post #94 of 108 Old 03-04-2014, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Which version of the movie did Wong Kar Wai want to make? If given the choice, which version would he want viewers to watch?
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The four hour version. As it was, he shot a lot of footage that would cover the bases in the editing room. The four hour version (that probably only exists in WKW's head, perhaps there is a longer one) would not be commercially feasible because of the number of showings per day in a theater. As it was, The Grandmaster didn't exactly light up the box office with the 108 minute version. That implies that too many just sat on the sideline waiting for the BR for whatever reason.
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post #95 of 108 Old 03-04-2014, 12:53 PM
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The four hour version. As it was, he shot a lot of footage that would cover the bases in the editing room. The four hour version (that probably only exists in WKW's head, perhaps there is a longer one) would not be commercially feasible because of the number of showings per day in a theater. As it was, The Grandmaster didn't exactly light up the box office with the 108 minute version. That implies that too many just sat on the sideline waiting for the BR for whatever reason.

It's my understanding that Wong overshoots all of his movies over extremely long production periods (often years), with the intention of finding and shaping the narrative in editing. All of his movies have a lot of footage that he shot but ultimately decided not to use. He just keeps shooting until he feels that he has enough to work with. He had so much footage left over from Chunking Express that he made a whole second movie out of it (Fallen Angels).

I seriously doubt that he ever really intended to make a four-hour version of The Grandmaster. Before this, his longest movie was 2046, which only ran 129 minutes.

My question still stands: Of the versions of the movie he actually made, which one would the director prefer audiences to watch - the one where he had final cut, or the one where the Weinsteins ordered him to hack out half an hour?

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post #96 of 108 Old 03-04-2014, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

My question still stands: Of the versions of the movie he actually made, which one would the director prefer audiences to watch - the one where he had final cut, or the one where the Weinsteins ordered him to hack out half an hour?

I suppose you would have to ask him, but given that the 130 minute version was already on BR way before Weinstein's 108 minute version that should be your answer: 130 minute version that was available on 4/23/2013. So I was able to watch it multiple times prior to The Academy's Weinstein screening on 7/22/2013.
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post #97 of 108 Old 03-04-2014, 02:42 PM
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Yes, as owners, the Weinsteins can do whatever they want to a film they've paid for. That doesn't make what they do right.
+10000000

I don't know if other companies who release Asian movies in this country do this, but it is absolutely WRONG on every level.

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My question still stands: Of the versions of the movie he actually made, which one would the director prefer audiences to watch - the one where he had final cut, or the one where the Weinsteins ordered him to hack out half an hour?
I'll take the former, please.

BTW, I have the Weinstein BD in the HT today....will try to fire it up tonite.wink.gif

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post #98 of 108 Old 03-04-2014, 03:54 PM
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I'd love to know how the Hong Kong BD looks. I'll summarize the Weinstein BD as nearly reference audio but inconsistent video at best.
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post #99 of 108 Old 03-04-2014, 04:31 PM
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I'd love to know how the Hong Kong BD looks. I'll summarize the Weinstein BD as nearly reference audio but inconsistent video at best.

Well, I haven't seen it yet (I'm hoping for a different release of the HK cut in some other market), but the phrase "House of Flying Artifacts" was coined in this thread to describe it. Not sure how accurate a description it is, but boy is it memorable.
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post #100 of 108 Old 03-04-2014, 04:35 PM
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Well, I haven't seen it yet (I'm hoping for a different release of the HK cut in some other market), but the phrase "House of Flying Artifacts" was coined in this thread to describe it. Not sure how accurate a description it is, but boy is it memorable.
Geez, I hope not.
Which reminds me...when are we going to get decent BDs of HOFD and Hero?

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post #101 of 108 Old 03-04-2014, 11:29 PM
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Watched the Weinstein disk tonite.

1) The PQ is far from reference and has SD clips inserted here and there.
2) At times, there is a weird stuttering to the video (possibly a stylistic choice)...as though it is 22fps or something.
3) The audio mix is excellent, as is the cinematography.
4) A spell-binding movie of the highest order....there has never been anything like this before.
5) WKW should have been nominated for Best Director at the A.A.

A must watch for everyone who loves cinematic art.
This is a film unique to movie-making....must be seen to be believed.

Would love to get the original cut with reference AV.mad.gif
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post #102 of 108 Old 03-05-2014, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Watched the Weinstein disk tonite.

1) The PQ is far from reference and has SD clips inserted here and there.
2) At times, there is a weird stuttering to the video (possibly a stylistic choice)...as though it is 22fps or something.
3) The audio mix is excellent, as is the cinematography.
4) A spell-binding movie of the highest order....there has never been anything like this before.
5) WKW should have been nominated for Best Director at the A.A.

A must watch for everyone who loves cinematic art.
This is a film unique to movie-making....must be seen to be believed.

Would love to get the original cut with reference AV.mad.gif
Totally agree on points 4 and 5. In many ways this is a thinking person martial arts movie.

"Bring out yer dead!".."Wait I'm not dead yet!"..(Sound Austrian here) "WRONG !!" (You know what happens next..)
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post #103 of 108 Old 03-05-2014, 10:29 AM
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In many ways this is a thinking person martial arts movie.
Agreed.

Visually it is unique among films in this genre.
The cinematography and EDITING is jaw-dropping in every way....it's almost unbelievable.

While watching this movie it becomes VERY obvious WKW is one of the greatest filmmakers of all time.
He possesses creativity and craftsmanship to a staggering degree.

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post #104 of 108 Old 03-05-2014, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Watched the Weinstein disk tonite.

1) The PQ is far from reference and has SD clips inserted here and there.
2) At times, there is a weird stuttering to the video (possibly a stylistic choice)...as though it is 22fps or something.
3) The audio mix is excellent, as is the cinematography.
4) A spell-binding movie of the highest order....there has never been anything like this before.
5) WKW should have been nominated for Best Director at the A.A.

A must watch for everyone who loves cinematic art.
This is a film unique to movie-making....must be seen to be believed.

Would love to get the original cut with reference AV.mad.gif

Good summarization and agree 100% smile.gif And I will point out I found the english / DD5.1 mix better sounding than the DTS MA which seemed to only boost the highs & mids a tad but lost the bass integration and better channel separation of the DD 5.1 mix.

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Totally agree on points 4 and 5. In many ways this is a thinking person martial arts movie.

They really made me look deeper into the overall meaning of martial arts and gained another level of appreciation for it.



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Agreed.

Visually it is unique among films in this genre.
The cinematography and EDITING is jaw-dropping in every way....it's almost unbelievable.

While watching this movie it becomes VERY obvious WKW is one of the greatest filmmakers of all time.
He possesses creativity and craftsmanship to a staggering degree.

Indeed this was masterfully done ! and is pure Cinema Excellence a term i reserve for the very best wink.gif
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post #105 of 108 Old 03-05-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by oink View Post

Watched the Weinstein disk tonite.

1) The PQ is far from reference and has SD clips inserted here and there.
2) At times, there is a weird stuttering to the video (possibly a stylistic choice)...as though it is 22fps or something.
They definitely blended frame rates and tinkered with their speed during some of the fight scenes. The stuttering seems to appear in a couple of scenes when they really slow the action down, as if it was from an interlaced source or had unnatural film judder.

This movie does raise the bar for artistic fight choreography.
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post #106 of 108 Old 03-05-2014, 11:33 AM
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Good summarization and agree 100% smile.gif And I will point out I found the english / DD5.1 mix better sounding than the DTS MA which seemed to only boost the highs & mids a tad but lost the bass integration and better channel separation of the DD 5.1 mix.
Hmmm...I didn't check the English track.
I need to do that.

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They definitely blended frame rates and tinkered with their speed during some of the fight scenes. The stuttering seems to appear in a couple of scenes when they really slow the action down, as if it was from an interlaced source or had unnatural film judder.
I am not sure exactly what was done and it does appear different techniques were used (as the effect varied).
I would really like to know how it was done.

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post #107 of 108 Old 03-05-2014, 12:40 PM
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It seemed the film judder was intentional or possibly not ! is there anyway to find out?
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post #108 of 108 Old 03-05-2014, 12:44 PM
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It seemed the film judder was intentional or possibly not !
That was what is so maddening about it.
I think it was intentional, but not entirely sure.

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is there anyway to find out?
Anyone out there know?

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