Wong Kar Wai's The Grandmaster 2013 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 109 Old 06-09-2013, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Although the official release date is 8/23/13 in the US, it is available via an all region BR here:

http://www.yesasia.com/us/the-grandmaster-2013-blu-ray/1033040913-0-0-0-en/info.html

Earlier this year, it was screened at Cannes. It is quite a stunning film on BR, if one liked In the Mood for Love or 2046. It is unlike any other martial arts film that I have ever seen. It is probably not everyone's cup of tea, especially if it is compared to Donnie Yen's Ip Man, parts 1 & 2.
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post #2 of 109 Old 06-10-2013, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

Although the official release date is 8/23/13 in the US, it is available via an all region BR here:

http://www.yesasia.com/us/the-grandmaster-2013-blu-ray/1033040913-0-0-0-en/info.html

Earlier this year, it was screened at Cannes. It is quite a stunning film on BR, if one liked In the Mood for Love or 2046. It is unlike any other martial arts film that I have ever seen. It is probably not everyone's cup of tea, especially if it is compared to Donnie Yen's Ip Man, parts 1 & 2.
Thanx for the info...I'm in.smile.gif

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post #3 of 109 Old 08-30-2013, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Having seen the Weinstein version, the BR from YesAsia would seem to be the definitive version because it is the only one available, at the moment. The Weinstein version has added some sequences and also deleted a lot more than it added. The Weinstein version is more Ip Man focused and that is what Wong Kar Wai had to say about it, after a pre-screening. The title of the movie is not plural and the question as to who the Grandmaster is debatable. Still a stunning movie to be seen on a big screen with the opening fight sequence being electrifying.
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post #4 of 109 Old 08-30-2013, 11:40 AM
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Read some reviews. Many say very slow moving. Few action sequences. What's the scoop?

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post #5 of 109 Old 08-30-2013, 12:09 PM
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From what I've read that seems to go back to what fookoo_2010 said: the film was edited for Stateside release, from 130m down to 108m, and that's apparently what screws it up. And Harvey Weinstein is doing it with Snowpiercer as well...gee, Harv, I guess you don't want my money, do you? (Then again, maybe the eventual NA BD will rectify this. If we're willing to wait.)

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post #6 of 109 Old 08-30-2013, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Read some reviews. Many say very slow moving. Few action sequences. What's the scoop?

That's true. It depends upon what you want out of a movie and especially a Wong Kar Wai movie.
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post #7 of 109 Old 08-30-2013, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

That's true. It depends upon what you want out of a movie and especially a Wong Kar Wai movie.
It isn't a martial arts movie in the traditional sense. It's a story that uses martial arts to help a tell a bigger story. The cinematography is good and what fighting is in it will kick your ass. It will also make you think.

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post #8 of 109 Old 09-11-2013, 11:25 AM
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I' ve just received my French released BD, the PQ is much better than HK version.
It is B-locked and non-Eng friendly, but just OK for me.




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post #9 of 109 Old 09-11-2013, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuettoi View Post

I' ve justed received my French released BD, the PQ is much better than HK version.
It is B-locked and non- Eng friendly, but just OK for me.

How is it better? Is it a different cut? Better looking visually? The French always seem to have the same outcome when it comes to their version of a film: it almost never has English subtitles which is kind of dumb, unless one is fluent in French and in this case some version of Chinese. Otherwise, the potential pool of buyers is extremely limited. How did this version compare to what one could see on a big screen? The Weinstein edit looks fine, visually. Which version is the French one?
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post #10 of 109 Old 09-11-2013, 07:58 PM
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The French distributors would almost certainly be restricted in which subtitles they can include I bet, no different to how Criterion and MoC are forced to region code their titles.
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post #11 of 109 Old 09-11-2013, 09:05 PM
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I am sorry, since English isn't my mother language, I cannot translate my word correctly.

Since HK ver. is little bit better than FR ver. none of them is the best cut, wish the 4 hour version would be released some day.

According to the specification in amazon

Japan : 123 minutes
Germany : 123 minutes
France : 144 minutes(122 min actually)
HK : around 130 minutes
US : 108 minutes

I never seen the US ver. but here is some review in the internet :
http://twitchfilm.com/2013/08/opening-the-grandmaster-us-version-no-subtleties-please-were-american.html

Kung Foolish: How The American Cut of ‘The Grandmaster’ Ruins a Masterpiece :
http://www.film.com/movies/wong-kar-wai-the-grandmaster-ruined-by-american-cut
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post #12 of 109 Old 09-11-2013, 09:10 PM
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Re the PQ HK ver(upper) vs FR ver.(lower)

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post #13 of 109 Old 09-11-2013, 09:12 PM
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Look at the "contours" distortion created by the HK ver. master, photo 3.







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post #14 of 109 Old 09-11-2013, 09:27 PM
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The HK ver. is softer and full of noise(not the gain WKW styled), The FR ver. is more sharper with saturated color
The former is very famous a bad encoding / mastering exemple in CN / HK / TW.

All the bonus in HK ver. are 1080i;
In the FR ver., 95% of them are 576i.
I think this is the main reason FR ver. have the better PQ.

Through the FR version, the PQ become closer to that of my another combo, HK ver. BR + PS3 + VW1000ES
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post #15 of 109 Old 09-12-2013, 01:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the information. Where can one buy the French version?
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post #16 of 109 Old 09-12-2013, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

Thanks for the information. Where can one buy the French version?


The Grandmaster - Edition Ultime DVD + Blu-ray http://www.amazon.fr/The-Grandmaster-Edition-Blu-ray-Collector/dp/B00D48TNQM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1378805722&sr=8-2&keywords=grandmaster+blu+ray

The Grandmaster - Edition limitée Steelbook DVD + Blu-ray
http://www.amazon.fr/The-Grandmaster-Edition-limit%C3%A9e-Steelbook/dp/B00D48TO3Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378805791&sr=8-1&keywords=grandmaster+blu+ray

The Grandmaster [Blu-ray]
http://www.amazon.fr/Grandmaster-Blu-ray-Tony-Leung-Chiu/dp/B00DGCFYWS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1378805791&sr=8-4&keywords=grandmaster+blu+ray

The information of Amazon FR is wrong, the movie length 122 min., B-locked, NO English dialogue or subtitle.
There is foced French subtitle comes with Mandarin dialogue.
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post #17 of 109 Old 09-12-2013, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuettoi View Post

I am sorry, since English isn't my mother language, I cannot translate my word correctly.

Since hk ver. is little bit better than fr ver. none of them is best cut, wish the 4 hour version would be released some day.

Wong claims he was misquoted about the four-hour version. From what he says here (Chinese only), it sounds like it was just an assembly cut. He still says he might do a new version, but that'll be many years from now, if ever.

I have two questions for you:

1) Do you know about the Taiwanese Blu-ray? Is it identical to the Hong Kong version? I'm guessing it's the same bad transfer, but I'd like to know for sure.

2) The French BD apparently has a deleted scene in 3D. Is it viewable on 2D setups, or only in 3D?
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post #18 of 109 Old 09-12-2013, 06:54 AM
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While the French BD is right out (nothing I've got can handle Region B discs), I do wonder...if the original Chinese theatrical cut is 130m, what's being cut out for the various regional releases (never mind the US release, that's Weinstein being Weinstein)? That's making me gravitate towards the HK release by default.

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post #19 of 109 Old 09-12-2013, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Average View Post

Wong claims he was misquoted about the four-hour version. From what he says here (Chinese only), it sounds like it was just an assembly cut. He still says he might do a new version, but that'll be many years from now, if ever.

I have two questions for you:

1) Do you know about the Taiwanese Blu-ray? Is it identical to the Hong Kong version? I'm guessing it's the same bad transfer, but I'd like to know for sure.

2) The French BD apparently has a deleted scene in 3D. Is it viewable on 2D setups, or only in 3D?
I could answer the second one at once, it is playable by LX91, such as any 2D only BDP.
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post #20 of 109 Old 09-12-2013, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill C. View Post

While the French BD is right out (nothing I've got can handle Region B discs), I do wonder...if the original Chinese theatrical cut is 130m, what's being cut out for the various regional releases (never mind the US release, that's Weinstein being Weinstein)? That's making me gravitate towards the HK release by default.
I cannot translate the diference correctly, I could post it here in Chinese if you really want it.
If your PC could display Chinese Fonts, please get help from some friend know Chinese, is it OK?
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post #21 of 109 Old 09-12-2013, 10:21 AM
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A netfriend just told me, a special extended BD will be released in yearend.
Around 3 hours long, that' s all he know.
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post #22 of 109 Old 09-12-2013, 10:31 AM
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The Asian BluRay is rightly hated. It's the longer cut, yes, but it has smearing DNR, noise, compression issues galore, etc. It's just a mess and not at all representative of what Wong Kar Wai shot.

A friend of mine was involved in this production at a high level and says it almost killed him. He has now retired from the film industry. It took that much out of him.

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post #23 of 109 Old 09-12-2013, 03:15 PM
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A friend of mine was involved in this production at a high level and says it almost killed him. He has now retired from the film industry. It took that much out of him.
What do you mean "it took that much out of him?"

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post #24 of 109 Old 09-12-2013, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

The Asian BluRay is rightly hated. It's the longer cut, yes, but it has smearing DNR, noise, compression issues galore, etc. It's just a mess and not at all representative of what Wong Kar Wai shot.

Have you actually watched this BR? It is more than satisfactory and looks pretty good. Of course, one can always complain about something. And who is it that hates it? Be specific.
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A friend of mine was involved in this production at a high level and says it almost killed him. He has now retired from the film industry. It took that much out of him.

Exactly what does this mean? There is little doubt that being in film, below the line, is no picnic because of the continual time pressure.
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post #25 of 109 Old 09-12-2013, 09:34 PM
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I pretty much agree with Matt. A lot of the BD looks fine but when it's bad it's really bad. I don't have the ability to cap, so this will have to serve as an example (here's the same frame from a 720p TV rip). Some more caps (without comparisons) are here. This thread is in Chinese, so you can Google Translate it if you'd like, or you can take my word that the general sentiment is negative, with many posters looking forward to the European releases. Some single out the low video bitrate (something like 18Mbps) as the culprit, which would account for the iffy grain resolution but not for the frequent brightness boosting and DNR. The bitrate issue is exacerbated not only by having HD extras on the same disc, but also by redundant TrueHD and MA versions of both the original and Mandarin-dubbed soundtracks—an obnoxiously common practice on Hong Kong BDs.
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Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

Exactly what does this mean? There is little doubt that being in film, below the line, is no picnic because of the continual time pressure.

I can't speak for Matt and his friend, but Wong Kar-wai films aren't normal productions. He uses minimal scripts—more like outlines, though he had a couple of co-writers on The Grandmaster—and his films sometimes change completely in mid-shoot (e.g. In the Mood for Love started out as a comedy and Happy Together started out with Tony Leung and Leslie Cheung playing estranged brothers). His shoots are open-ended and nobody knows when it'll be done until he decides it's done. In the case of The Grandmaster, he shot on and off for three years, with frequent breaks or general thumb-twiddling when Wong got stuck on the story, or went off to do more research, or when one of the lead actors left for another commitment (Tony Leung shot and released two other films while The Grandmaster was still in production).

So it's a very different kind of pressure: the pressure of not knowing when the damn thing will be finished and you can go home or move on to the next project. If you're working on a difficult shoot, you can normally take comfort in the fact that it'll be over in x days, but not here. Chris Doyle says the main reason he stopped working with Wong is because he no longer wanted to spend three years of his life working on the same film, and Gong Li came out of 2046 and "The Hand" with nothing but complaints, declaring that Wong is hell to work with and doesn't know what he's doing. (I laughed when some early reports claimed Gong would appear in The Grandmaster.) Of course Wong has loyal collaborators too, like Leung and Chang Chen and William Chang, but it takes a certain kind of personality and commitment to work on a Wong Kar-wai movie and then come back for the next one.

The final gag is that The Grandmaster still had a rushed post-production, with a last-minute delay, shooting only a couple of weeks ahead of release, an unfinished soundtrack and credits sequence, no time for Tony Leung to do his own Mandarin dubbing, an IMAX version that was only confirmed two days in advance, and missing English subtitles on some of the Hong Kong prints. So there's still time pressures even with an "open-ended" shoot, because eventually someone's going to say "okay, we're releasing it on such-and-such day" and then they're scrambling to meet that date...which they still didn't make (it was postponed from December 18th to January 8th in late November, after they'd already sent out posters and trailers with the old date). That sort of thing would have even hardened industry veterans pulling their hair out at the roots.
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I could answer the second one at once, it is playable by LX91, such as any 2D only BDP.

Can you say anything about the deleted scene? You can PM me in Chinese if you'd prefer.
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post #26 of 109 Old 09-13-2013, 02:01 AM
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^Wong movies are an acquired taste....that is sure.

Thank you for the background info..

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post #27 of 109 Old 09-13-2013, 09:43 AM
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It's interesting to note that when looking at deleted scenes for his movies, it often feels like they're scenes from a totally different movie with the same cast, due to the fact that the whole tone and arc of the film can change during shooting. I watched the deleted scenes for In the Mood for Love and couldn't help but laughing at how incongruous some of them were. His filmmaking methodology may be strange, but you can't argue with the results.
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post #28 of 109 Old 09-13-2013, 10:27 AM
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Re the difference between HK / FR release BDs (in Chinese) :

http://www.av100fun.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=290343&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

Page 2, post #6, netname r32
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post #29 of 109 Old 09-13-2013, 10:36 AM
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Here is a great artical talking about the era and story about the Grandmaster(in Chinese), hope you enjoy it.

The Grandmaster : dao, one, two, three, the four martial realm

https://www.facebook.com/notes/%E6%A2%81%E9%9D%A7/%E4%B8%80%E4%BB%A3%E5%AE%97%E5%B8%AB%E9%81%93%E4%B8%80%E4%BA%8C%E4%B8%89%E7%9A%84%E5%9B%9B%E7%A8%AE%E6%AD%A6%E5%AD%B8%E5%A2%83%E7%95%8C/476853402351870
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post #30 of 109 Old 09-13-2013, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

Have you actually watched this BR? It is more than satisfactory and looks pretty good. Of course, one can always complain about something. And who is it that hates it? Be specific.
Exactly what does this mean? There is little doubt that being in film, below the line, is no picnic because of the continual time pressure.

Carl this transfer is horrible. The worst I have seen on Bluray. What are you talking about?
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