Which version of Spartacus 1960 is the best to get? european, asian or american? like to have it as close to the orginal as possible ( grain etc ) - AVS Forum
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Old 06-09-2013, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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just watched Ben Hur and it looked incredible. ha dis laying here for longtime but tonight watched it and that reminded me to get spartacus. now i know Universal released it orginal , read revieuws and it defintly does not look like how i like to see it.

so did Criterion or somewhere in Asia or EUrope got a different release then the Universal one?

and if so were could i buy it?

thanks in advance
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:37 PM
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Currently there is no good version of Spartacus on Blu-ray. It's hoped that Crietrion will eventually release it using a new transfer.

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Old 06-09-2013, 06:57 PM
 
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The Blu-ray of Spartacus is a sad joke. It doesn't even look like good 35mm let alone large format - pathetic, really. This needs a fresh scan and as much work as they can do. The restoration for this is now ancient and so much more can be done today in the digital realm. Start over, as Grover Crisp does. It's a crown jewel and it's an asset - respect the art and do what's right.
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:18 PM
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I believe the HDDVD was marginally better (ie, it had a bunch of electronic noise instead of DNR wax), perhaps one of the blu-ray releases uses that source, but I don't know. No HD version that's actually good exists.
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:22 PM
 
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I've seen the HD broadcast and it's just as bad as the Blu-ray in every way.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

I believe the HDDVD was marginally better (ie, it had a bunch of electronic noise instead of DNR wax), perhaps one of the blu-ray releases uses that source, but I don't know. No HD version that's actually good exists.
I believe they just ported over what they used for the HD DVD to make the Blu ray also. frown.gif

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Old 06-10-2013, 03:50 AM
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I was satisfied with the regular DVD upscaled.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:50 PM
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I probably should bust out the HD-DVD again just to verify it looked better (if marginally, and somewhat brown-ly) than the BD, but I agree with haineshisway that...well, I imagine there are worse-looking HD discs, but for a film of this class to look that ungood is almost criminal. frown.gif Flip side, since neither the HD-DVD nor BD had any remotely substantial special features on top of that, it's just one more thing that keeps the Criterion DVD in my library...

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Old 06-10-2013, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks guys for the answers , why does universal not do its job and release a fine print of this?

i really like to have this movie in a high quality release. ah well back to the waiting game frown.gif
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by d3code View Post

thanks guys for the answers , why does universal not do its job and release a fine print of this?

i really like to have this movie in a high quality release. ah well back to the waiting game frown.gif
From what I've heard, Comcast/NBC/Universal keep the purse strings very tight for these sorts of things.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:34 PM
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Wasn't this movie filmed in 70mm? It would have looked stunning in the theaters and a remastered Blu-Ray should be just as good as Ben-Hur and Lawrence of Arabia.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Blu-21 View Post

Wasn't this movie filmed in 70mm? It would have looked stunning in the theaters and a remastered Blu-Ray should be just as good as Ben-Hur and Lawrence of Arabia.
Not exactly... it was shot in Technirama, which is basically anamorphic Vistavision (35mm negative runs sideways), so not quite 70mm, but still large format.
Here's a shot from a 4K transfer of a film shot in Technirama: http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison_image.php?version=d2&input=5685&x=&y=&cID=1466&art=full&lossless=1&disc=561&gamma=
And here's Spartacus... http://images4.static-bluray.com/reviews/2809_3_1080p.jpg
...sigh frown.gif
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:03 PM
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that's Spartacus the PS3 game you've uploaded
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:38 AM
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Does anyone know anything about the Spartacus version that was released July 9, 2013 on BD?
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

Does anyone know anything about the Spartacus version that was released July 9, 2013 on BD?

It's just a repackage. Nothing new to report there.
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:35 AM
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One wonders what is up with Spartacus. Back in the nineties, right after Lawrence of Arabia was restored and reissued, some of the studios trotted out some of their old epics: El Cid, The Ten Commandments, and, I'm pretty certain, Spartacus. The reception for these was pretty underwhelming.

Possibly there aren't decent elements to turn to for a proper restoration. And then there's the big fire on the Universal lot too.

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Old 07-13-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Shaded Dogfood View Post

Possibly there aren't decent elements to turn to for a proper restoration. And then there's the big fire on the Universal lot too.
Spartacus was already restored in the analog realm by Robert Harris and company. While a modern digital restoration would likely do better, just scanning the existing restoration properly would yield a much better looking home video product.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded Dogfood View Post

One wonders what is up with Spartacus. Back in the nineties, right after Lawrence of Arabia was restored and reissued, some of the studios trotted out some of their old epics: El Cid, The Ten Commandments, and, I'm pretty certain, Spartacus. The reception for these was pretty underwhelming.

Possibly there aren't decent elements to turn to for a proper restoration. And then there's the big fire on the Universal lot too.

Both El Cid and Spartacus look similarly bad and the negative for El Cid has probably not been touched for quite some time, Spartacus has been restored in the analog domain around 1990 I think while El Cid never got a proper restoration/70mm re-release despite the high-profile Scorsese involvment in bringing it out again in 35mm prints.

Having waited so long now offers the option to do a 4k scan from the camera negative that would yield data that can also be used to make these movies ready for exhibition on new 4k projection systems that are already widespread in cinemas and that will become more widespread in homes, soon. And don't worry about the elements of Spartacus - they will be fine when a Blu-ray is needed even though more problematic if one was willing to revisit the OCN, at that point it would become a question of budget.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Not exactly... it was shot in Technirama, which is basically anamorphic Vistavision (35mm negative runs sideways), so not quite 70mm, but still large format.
Here's a shot from a 4K transfer of a film shot in Technirama: http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison_image.php?version=d2&input=5685&x=&y=&cID=1466&art=full&lossless=1&disc=561&gamma=
And here's Spartacus... http://images4.static-bluray.com/reviews/2809_3_1080p.jpg
...sigh frown.gif

Add to the example of The Leopard this one:
http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?cap1=15162&cap2=15154&art=full&image=3&cID=1313&action=1&lossless=1#vergleich

For those who do not know caps-a-holic: It is a mouse-over site, the cursor has to move out of the picture to reveal the Blu-ray.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Both El Cid and Spartacus look similarly bad and the negative for El Cid has probably not been touched for quite some time, Spartacus has been restored in the analog domain around 1990 I think while El Cid never got a proper restoration/70mm re-release despite the high-profile Scorsese involvment in bringing it out again in 35mm prints.

Having waited so long now offers the option to do a 4k scan from the camera negative that would yield data that can also be used to make these movies ready for exhibition on new 4k projection systems that are already widespread in cinemas and that will become more widespread in homes, soon. And don't worry about the elements of Spartacus - they will be fine when a Blu-ray is needed even though more problematic if one was willing to revisit the OCN, at that point it would become a question of budget.

Quite true.

The AFI Silver, not far from me, is doing part 2 of their 70mm series this summer (part 1 was last summer, with movies like Tron, 2001 and Spartacus, all of which I saw). The difference with part 2 is that they're showing some movies in 70mm but others in 4K. Lawrence is actually being shown both ways. Cleopatra, Sound of Music and Hello, Dolly! are only being shown in DCP, though. It just goes to show how 4K projection is bringing these large-format classics back to the big screen in the 21st century. I would certainly hope El Cid gets such a restoration. I'm yet to see that movie, and part of the reason is RAH's lackluster review of the dvd. Seeing Spartacus in 70mm last summer was my first time actually sitting down and watching the movie beginning to end (same situation with Lawrence several years ago), and this movie can and should look amazing on blu-ray!

I'm sure Criterion is willing (assuming Universal allows them to be able) to do a proper high-res scan of either the restored 65mm interpositive or the technirama negative.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:08 AM
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Good to hear all is not lost. I wish someone would do something about Fall of the Roman Empire before it's too late.

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Old 07-15-2013, 12:14 PM
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Good to hear all is not lost. I wish someone would do something about Fall of the Roman Empire before it's too late.

Fall of the Roman Empire was one of the two epics that basically brought down the big Roman epics, the other one being Cleopatra, plus FOTRE also brought down the "empire" of producer Samuel Bronston.

FOTRE also has the distinction of having been shot in Ultra Panavision 70 but nobody ever saw it that way so it would certainly be an interesting project to bring it to Blu-ray and 4k although what Iwould like to see the most would be a contact print to 70mm - one can always dream... Plus it has some scenes that are spectacularly sharp and detailed, especially those in the Roman forum that already looked very good in its roadshow prints that were Blow-ups to 70mm flat.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:36 PM
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I just blind-bought the Digital Copy combo to round out my Kubrick collection. But it's just the 50th Anniversary Edition with a generic slipcover and a DL code tossed in.

Bought it at Best Buy b&m but Amazon has the photo: ttp://www.amazon.com/Spartacus-Blu-ray-Digital-Copy-UltraViolet/dp/B00COHGOAC/

I'm gonna return it. Argh.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Fall of the Roman Empire was one of the two epics that basically brought down the big Roman epics, the other one being Cleopatra, plus FOTRE also brought down the "empire" of producer Samuel Bronston.

FOTRE also has the distinction of having been shot in Ultra Panavision 70 but nobody ever saw it that way so it would certainly be an interesting project to bring it to Blu-ray and 4k although what Iwould like to see the most would be a contact print to 70mm - one can always dream... Plus it has some scenes that are spectacularly sharp and detailed, especially those in the Roman forum that already looked very good in its roadshow prints that were Blow-ups to 70mm flat.

It's on Blu in the UK. I don't know anything about the restoration done for the DVD release and the later Blu-Ray release in the UK, but it would seem that a new and comprehensive WB-like restoration is needed for this particular film as the results on DVD and Blu were not well received due to cropping and lost footage that was found after the film had been prepped for release.
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post

It's on Blu in the UK. I don't know anything about the restoration done for the DVD release and the later Blu-Ray release in the UK, but it would seem that a new and comprehensive WB-like restoration is needed for this particular film as the results on DVD and Blu were not well received due to cropping and lost footage that was found after the film had been prepped for release.

I think not too many would have complained if it had been released looking at least as good as Cleopatra which is not spectacular but still servicable. The problem is that this has been taken from 35mm elements and does not even look as good as these elements could. The cropping is of course another issue as is the missing scene.
By the way: I have the German version taken from the same "HD" master and could not bear to watch it, it is right up there with Spartacus or should I see right down there, at the bottom of the barrel?
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

I just blind-bought the Digital Copy combo to round out my Kubrick collection. But it's just the 50th Anniversary Edition with a generic slipcover and a DL code tossed in.

Bought it at Best Buy b&m but Amazon has the photo: ttp://www.amazon.com/Spartacus-Blu-ray-Digital-Copy-UltraViolet/dp/B00COHGOAC/

I'm gonna return it. Argh.

Return it and tell them that they should be ashamed to sell that kind of crap.

I am fairly certain that IF Universal comes to their senses (unlikely but not impossible) we will know it well in advance.
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