The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug Blu-ray announced - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't see a thread for this so thought I would post.

I just noticed the announcement for this over at bluray.com, http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=13272

What I find interesting is that collectable bookends are being made available with the theatrical release but they do seem to be very limited, only 25,000 mentioned and only for the US it seems. This is a first isn't it? Haven't these items historically only been available with the extended cuts of the Lord of the Rings releases and the first Hobbit movie? Makes me think this is a money grab and that most likely there will be another collectable with the extended release which I'm assuming there will be. To date I have all of the extended edition bookends (that came with the releases, I never did do the mail in to get the companion Two Towers and Return of the King pieces) and would like to keep this up but the prospect of having to get 2 now is starting to get a bit much smile.gif

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post #2 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 08:28 AM
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I'm holding out for the inevitable boxset for the Theatrical and Extended cuts.
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post #3 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 02:59 PM
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With most fans of the LOTR + Hobbit movies holding out for the extended version (if not the extended version box set after the 3rd movie comes out) I would expect them to add whatever collectibles they can to try to boost sales of the theatrical cut releases. Especially at this point when you know the extended version is only going to be a few months behind.
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post #4 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 04:19 PM
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I can't wait to hear the bass from the dragon in my home theater room.
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post #5 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sojodave View Post

I can't wait to hear the bass from the dragon in my home theater room.



I just hope there is bass to hear/feel! Part 1 was a disaster (IMO) in the low end department and with the same sound/mix team doing part 2 (from what I have read), I am not holding my breath for good bass support. Hope I am wrong though as there is tons of LFE potential in part 2 and I really enjoyed the film overall. Fingers crossed.........

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post #6 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 06:03 PM
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I just hope there is bass to hear/feel! Part 1 was a disaster (IMO) in the low end department and with the same sound/mix team doing part 2 (from what I have read), I am not holding my breath for good bass support. Hope I am wrong though as there is tons of LFE potential in part 2 and I really enjoyed the film overall. Fingers crossed.........

I recommend a subwoofer with it's own output control so it's easier to adjust independently rather than through your receiver settings. In my case since I watch a lot of old movies too I find I constantly have to turn it down for new releases since the studios apparently dont' think they're doing their jobs anymore if action sequences at normal settings don't rattle your whole house. But if you're the type who likes more LFE that might not be a bad investment for you also.
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post #7 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ElJimador View Post

I recommend a subwoofer with it's own output control so it's easier to adjust independently rather than through your receiver settings.
Mine has a plain ol' volume knob on the front, does that count? smile.gif

As to the OP, yes, I want me some Smaug in room-rumbling glory, but I'm sticking with the Extended Editions only this time around. So here's to another nine or ten months of waiting.

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post #8 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 07:28 PM
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And he's totally ignored high frame rates again for the Blu-ray.
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post #9 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJimador View Post

I recommend a subwoofer with it's own output control so it's easier to adjust independently rather than through your receiver settings. In my case since I watch a lot of old movies too I find I constantly have to turn it down for new releases since the studios apparently dont' think they're doing their jobs anymore if action sequences at normal settings don't rattle your whole house. But if you're the type who likes more LFE that might not be a bad investment for you also.


You cant turn up what is not there in the first place. frown.gif Unfortunately a simple "volume bump" want cure Hobbit 1 since the bass is not there to begin with below ~40hz or so.

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post #10 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 07:46 PM
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And he's totally ignored high frame rates again for the Blu-ray.


HFR is not even possible with the current blu ray spec from what I have read which is why. You can get damn near the same effect if you have frame interpolation on your display though by cranking it up to high.

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post #11 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 07:49 PM
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HFR is not even possible with the current blu ray spec from what I have read which is why.
The Blu-ray spec supports 50 fps and ~60 fps, both with 3D support. Aren't those high frame rates?

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Assets/Downloadablefile/bdj_gem_application_definition-15496.pdf
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post #12 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

The Blu-ray spec supports 50 fps and ~60 fps, both with 3D support. Aren't those high frame rates?

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Assets/Downloadablefile/bdj_gem_application_definition-15496.pdf

HFR is 48FPS I believe which is not supported by the blu spec.

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post #13 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

HFR is 48FPS I believe which is not supported by the blu spec.
HFR stands for high frame rate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_frame_rate which includes 48, 50, 60, 120 fps etc.

And 50 fps and 60 fps are both capable of storing 48 fps content - 50 fps with a 4% speed up (like most films on PAL DVD) and 60 fps with either a pull-down or frame blending or, more likely a bit of interpolation - like they've used for transferring 50 frames/fields to 60 frames per sec on Blu-ray.
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post #14 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

HFR stands for high frame rate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_frame_rate which includes 48, 50, 60, 120 fps etc.

And 50 fps and 60 fps are both capable of storing 48 fps content - 50 fps with a 4% speed up (like most films on PAL DVD) and 60 fps with either a pull-down or frame blending or, more likely a bit of interpolation - like they've used for transferring 50 frames/fields to 60 frames per sec on Blu-ray.


Be all that as it may, I am guessing the reason they don't put out the HFR version is because they cant put it out in native form (48FPS for these films) which is a good decision IMO.

Again though, just crank up the FI on your display to high and it will give basically the same effect.

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post #15 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 08:08 PM
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Again though, just crank up the FI on your display to high and it will give basically the same effect.
No thanks. I want real frames not fake ones thanks.
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post #16 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 08:11 PM
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No thanks. I want real frames not fake ones thanks.

I don't disagree with that, but the end result is VERY similar as far as real world viewing. If you want HFR THAT bad (I really don't care TBH), you can get nearly the exact same effect through your display. If I crank my BenQ W7000 up to HIGH FI, it looks almost identical to the HFR version of the Hobbit I watched. That's all I am getting at.

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post #17 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 09:49 PM
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IMO it was a mistake not to support 48fps when they were writing the Bluray/HDMI specification or not to jump to 60fps when filming instead of the orphan 48fps.

Sure you can speed up to 50fps, but then most of the USA won't be able to play it. Sure you can use pulldown techniques to give 60fps, but that's going to result in jerkiness and invalidates the whole reason for going 24fps in the first place. 48fps can not be simply interpolated in an HDTV either unless you have a 240Hz panel.

IMO 48fps is a mistake and waste of effort however you look at it, especially when the motion threshold of human vision is around 60fps anyway: just go straight to 60fps.
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post #18 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 10:30 PM
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If the FIFA World Cup 3D Blu-ray (the one sold in the US) was converted from 50 fields per sec to 60 frames per sec (probably with motion compensation), why couldn't they convert 48 frames per sec to 60 fps just as well (50 fps might be better for Europe)? If 50i to 60p gives okay quality (even though the true frame rate would be better) - shouldn't a 48p to 60p conversion with motion compensated interpolation be about as good if not better (yes it's 2 less source images per sec but they're all progressive).

They're probably waiting for the Blu-ray format extension that might be coming near the end of 2014, so they can release it in HFR 1080p then, where 48 fps will likely be one of the supported rates (it might be capable of HFR UHDTV too I hope - even though The Hobbit release probably won't use that). But they could still release a lower res HFR version (720p 3D) at 50/60 fps before then - they could probably earn more money that way, with people buying the HFR 720p versions before the format extension and the higher res ones at 48 fps after the BD format extension.
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post #19 of 43 Old 02-19-2014, 11:48 PM
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720p? As you would say, NO THANKS. How would you convert a native 48FPS title to 50 or 60 without motion artifacts? They made the right choice not to release it if they could not do it right which they cant.

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post #20 of 43 Old 02-20-2014, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJimador View Post

I recommend a subwoofer with it's own output control so it's easier to adjust independently rather than through your receiver settings. In my case since I watch a lot of old movies too I find I constantly have to turn it down for new releases since the studios apparently dont' think they're doing their jobs anymore if action sequences at normal settings don't rattle your whole house. But if you're the type who likes more LFE that might not be a bad investment for you also.
You cant turn up what is not there in the first place. frown.gif Unfortunately a simple "volume bump" want cure Hobbit 1 since the bass is not there to begin with below ~40hz or so.

Time to think about adding a dbx Subharmonic Synthesizer (link) ?! biggrin.gif
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post #21 of 43 Old 02-20-2014, 09:44 AM
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720p? As you would say, NO THANKS. How would you convert a native 48FPS title to 50 or 60 without motion artifacts? They made the right choice not to release it if they could not do it right which they cant.
You're the one saying how great TV interpolation is - and that would be interpolating from 24 to 100/120/240 etc. Interpolating using software from 48 fps to 50/60 fps would use all 48 real frames per sec instead of 24 and create much less of a ratio of interpolated frames, and would use better, non-realtime algorithms. So it would be much more accurate and create much less artefacts than the method you were suggesting. How many complained about the artefacts in the 2010 FIFA world cup 3D BD? But they could convert it to 50 fps with a 4% speed up - the same method already used for practically all PAL film DVDs. 24 fps isn't the rate they shot it at so releasing it that way isn't doing it right - and it isn't how Peter Jackson intended - he's said he didn't want the judder etc. No one is forcing you to buy it if you don't want it, but people who want the most accurate version shouldn't be denied it.
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post #22 of 43 Old 02-20-2014, 10:14 AM
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You're the one saying how great TV interpolation is - and that would be interpolating from 24 to 100/120/240 etc. Interpolating using software from 48 fps to 50/60 fps would use all 48 real frames per sec instead of 24 and create much less of a ratio of interpolated frames, and would use better, non-realtime algorithms. So it would be much more accurate and create much less artefacts than the method you were suggesting. But they could convert it to 50 fps with a 4% speed up - the same method already used for practically all PAL film DVDs. No one is forcing you to buy it if you don't want it, but people who want the most accurate version shouldn't be denied it.


Wouldn't we then be dealing with some sort of conversion artifact though similar to 3/2 pulldown jerkiness? A good FI (they are not all created equal, so I will give you that) has very minimal artifacts and nothing as jarring as 3/2 pull down to my eyes (at least the FI on my BenQ 7000). Either way, we are not getting a 48, 50 or 60 version so this conversation is pointless.

I am definitely not open/interested in 720p though and don't see many large screen video enthusiasts willing to take that step backwards at this point. Not only are people VERY accustomed to 1080p for blu ray at this point, but 4k is just hitting the scene which many are very much wanting to move up to (especially front projection owners). 720p would be much to big a compromise for many, especially on this forum.


Hey, I don't disagree with you that I would much prefer to have the HFR in native form, but since we are not getting any form of an HFR version, IF you have a quality FI on your set, it will get you VERY close to the same effect. For those like you who really want this option (again, I personally don't really care if it hits or not as I can basically recreate the same thing on my 7000 with FI on high which I am not sure I even want to do as I had mixed feelings about the HFR look in general) which we are not getting, a quality FI is the next best thing and the real world results wont be far off from an actual 48FPS version.

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post #23 of 43 Old 02-20-2014, 10:17 AM
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Wouldn't we then be dealing with some sort of conversion artifact though similar to 3/2 pulldown jerkiness? A good FI (they are not all created equal, so I will give you that) has very minimal artifacts and nothing as jarring as 3/2 pull down to my eyes (at least the FI on my BenQ 7000). Either way, we are not getting it so this conversation is pointless.
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No. It wouldn't be like 3:2 pull-down - it would be like a better, more accurate version of the frame inteprolation used by TVs - but using more accurate algorithms and using the whole 48 fps instead of 24. Using motion compensated frame interpolation isn't repeating frames unevenly which is what 3:2 pull-down does.
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post #24 of 43 Old 02-20-2014, 10:23 AM
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No. It wouldn't be like 3:2 pull-down - it would be like a better, more accurate version of the frame inteprolation used by TVs - but using more accurate algorithms and using the whole 48 fps instead of 24. Using motion compensated frame interpolation isn't repeating frames unevenly which is what 3:2 pull-down does.


Fair enough, but the reality is we are not getting that option, so the next best thing which again will get you very close assuming a quality interpretation is FI. Do you not have a good FI on your set? The FI on my 7000 on high looks so close to actual HFR that I doubt I could tell them apart unless in a direct A/B. To be fair, the CMD/FI on my JVC RS45 is not nearly as good as the one on my 7000 and cant recreate the HFR look reliably which is why I keep saying all FIs' are not equal.

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post #25 of 43 Old 02-20-2014, 10:31 AM
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Fair enough, but the reality is we are not getting that option, so the next best thing which again will get you very close assuming a quality interpretation is FI. Do you not have a good FI on your set? The FI on my 7000 on high looks so close to actual HFR that I doubt I could tell them apart unless in a direct A/B. To be fair, the CMD/FI on my JVC RS45 is not nearly as good as the one on my 7000 and cant recreate the HFR look reliably, which is why I keep saying all FIs' are not equal.
Yes I have on my Samsung, but I usually leave it off because the motion it creates is fake motion, with artefacts. Also have it on my other TV. I could use them on any film but I want accurate motion not fake motion.
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post #26 of 43 Old 02-20-2014, 10:50 AM
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Yes I have on my Samsung, but I usually leave it off because the motion it creates is fake motion, with artefacts. Also have it on my other TV. I could use them on any film but I want accurate motion not fake motion.

Sounds like the FI on your Samsung is one of the crappy versions then just like my JVC. However you want to describe actual HFR (true HFR to me made everything look a bit fake as well), that is basically how it looks with my 7000 on high. HFR to me does not look "accurate", but has that same sped up type effect that an aggressive FI has.

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post #27 of 43 Old 02-20-2014, 09:06 PM
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I'm holding out for the inevitable boxset for the Theatrical and Extended cuts.

Not me. The theatrical version of Desolation of Smaug is already 'extended' enough for me. smile.gif
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post #28 of 43 Old 02-27-2014, 08:05 AM
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Oh, hell. I may have to scrape together some green for the LE with the bookends to complete the set so far (lord knows I don't even use the previous sets' bookends for anything, but still).

...and I need your sweet love, Latina T-Mobile girl!

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post #29 of 43 Old 02-27-2014, 08:14 AM
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Not me. The theatrical version of Desolation of Smaug is already 'extended' enough for me. smile.gif

Same. Personally I'm hoping for a retracted edition of these films.
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post #30 of 43 Old 02-27-2014, 08:40 AM
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