Is there a definitive "Fifth Element"? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm aware of the Sony 2006 fiasco-release and the 2007 stealth re-release. I'm considering upgrading from my SuperBit DVD, but had hoped they'd remastered it in the last seven years.

Any luck? Is there a newer or better version than the the stealth re-release?
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post #2 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 11:05 AM
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The "stealth" re-release is the definitive version. At least for those of us in Region A. I am unaware of any superior versions elsewhere.

You know it's that version as it will have both PCM 5.1 and Dolby TrueHD 5.1 audio listed.

Sure seems like a missed opportunity to have released this in a 'Mastered in 4K', huh? And I would buy it.... for the fifth time. rolleyes.giftongue.gif

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post #3 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 11:59 AM
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There will probably be a 4K 20th Anniversary release in three years when 4K starts to take hold in homes.
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post #4 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 12:00 PM
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I was just thinking this.
The Fifth Element needs a 4k remaster and better color. The Goumant discs have better color but are all blown out detail wise.

The proper setting for sharpness is always0.
Also my Oppo BDP-103D is region free.
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post #5 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 12:40 PM
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Definitely. I remember when FE was the go-to disc for showing off vibrant colors and such things.

When you look at it today. It looks kinda pale and edgy.

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post #6 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post

There will probably be a 4K 20th Anniversary release in three years when 4K starts to take hold in homes.

The CGI in The Fifth Element was rendered at far below 4k resolution. It was 2k at most, maybe not even.

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post #7 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 04:11 PM
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What your looking for is the Japan Re-issue of the fifth element with the audio taken from the UK dsic
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post #8 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The CGI in The Fifth Element was rendered at far below 4k resolution. It was 2k at most, maybe not even.

So was Godzilla and Sony has a 4K master of that gem. A 4K master of Fifth Element would look pretty good even though the CGI is low-rez.
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post #9 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battlefront1990 View Post

What your looking for is the Japan Re-issue of the fifth element with the audio taken from the UK dsic

What's so special about that release?
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post #10 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post

So was Godzilla and Sony has a 4K master of that gem. A 4K master of Fifth Element would look pretty good even though the CGI is low-rez.

Since it will be down sampled to 1080p the CG will not look so bad. Men in Black had quite a few CG (pretty sure done in 2k) and Sony did a '4K' master anyway.
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post #11 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post

What's so special about that release?
See for yourself. The Japan Reissue has the most bitrate and details and personally I think its closer to the original colors but I'm sure someone will hate on me for that.
NORDIC
http://imgbox.com/TmgqSw0c
JPN
http://imgbox.com/quwEuIZ4
USA (2007)
http://imgbox.com/Wkptu77t
GBR
http://imgbox.com/7SiBw8LE
JPN Reissue
http://imgbox.com/ulvCZPYI
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post #12 of 98 Old 03-13-2014, 08:38 PM
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The 2007 Sony transfer was heralded when it arrived on Blu-ray but a newer transfer would likely blow it out of the water. I'm sure it will be one of the first movies released whenever the 4K format comes to fruition.
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post #13 of 98 Old 03-14-2014, 08:33 AM
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RE: sony 4k discs they are not remastered from the ground up so the fx shots would be ok
all sony do is scan an existing 35mm/70mm print at 4k resolution so as long as it was shot on film or a 4k camera all is ok, the problem comes when movies like the last 2 star wars prequels that were shot digitally at 1080p, they can be scanned at 4k but will only result in an upscale as they have nowhere to go higher than 1080p
problems with fx occur more with tv shows that were shot on film but had their CG fx rendered at (for example) 480p which (i think) may have been the problem with star trek TNG, babylon 5 and firefly (i might be wrong though)

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post #14 of 98 Old 03-14-2014, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjvader View Post

RE: sony 4k discs they are not remastered from the ground up so the fx shots would be ok
all sony do is scan an existing 35mm/70mm print at 4k resolution so as long as it was shot on film or a 4k camera all is ok, the problem comes when movies like the last 2 star wars prequels that were shot digitally at 1080p, they can be scanned at 4k but will only result in an upscale as they have nowhere to go higher than 1080p
problems with fx occur more with tv shows that were shot on film but had their CG fx rendered at (for example) 480p which (i think) may have been the problem with star trek TNG, babylon 5 and firefly (i might be wrong though)

Even though The Fifth Element was shot on film, any shot with CGI in it (and there's a tremendous amount of CGI in the movie) had to be composited digitally and will be locked to the resolution of the DI used at the time.
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post #15 of 98 Old 03-14-2014, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Even though The Fifth Element was shot on film, any shot with CGI in it (and there's a tremendous amount of CGI in the movie) had to be composited digitally and will be locked to the resolution of the DI used at the time.

+1. Thanks for the concise explanation, Josh!
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post #16 of 98 Old 03-14-2014, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battlefront1990 View Post

See for yourself. The Japan Reissue has the most bitrate and details and personally I think its closer to the original colors but I'm sure someone will hate on me for that.

Well going by the frame you point too I see old school home video colors, not film colors in the 'reissue'. No visible detail increase in the Japan image and quite a bit less film grain then the USA version has, probably partly due to the brightness boosting. The one thing this does reveal is using bitrate alone to judge a encode better is dubious at best.
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post #17 of 98 Old 03-14-2014, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Well going by the frame you point too I see old school home video colors, not film colors in the 'reissue'. No visible detail increase in the Japan image and quite a bit less film grain then the USA version has, probably partly due to the brightness boosting. The one thing this does reveal is using bitrate alone to judge a encode better is dubious at best.
Or that the US release is way oversharpened
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post #18 of 98 Old 03-15-2014, 12:50 AM
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I have the French release and think it's outstanding, even with occasional blown-out highlights (which are minimal and only distracting if you think they're not supposed to be there). The color is amazing, as is the level of detail. Very film-like.
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post #19 of 98 Old 04-20-2014, 06:20 AM
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Would be nice to have some identifier as a reference to see what exact release of the BDs are available

In Canada the bilingual 2007 BD (Eng/Fr) has Barcode= 43396 21524 5
Eng =(uncompressed)PCM, Dolby TrueHD, French 5.1. 1920X1080p, 2.40:1 125 minutes
"true to the original source master" Mastered in HD
Subtitles: Eng, Eng SDH, Fr., Chinese, Portuguese, Spanish, Thai
Special Features: feature length trivia track


How can the other BD releases be identified??

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post #20 of 98 Old 04-23-2014, 02:41 PM
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There are a lot of versions and from what I have read in various places, the ones I understand that get the highest ratings are the French version, the German version (the one I have on order) and the Japanese version with the DTS HD MA 5.1 audio.

Main differences are;

French Version: MPEG-4 AVC, DTS HD 5.1,2.39:1 ratio and region free.

German version: VC 1, DTS HD 6.1, 2.39:1 ratio and region free.

Japanese version: MPEG-4 AVC, DTS HD MA 5.1, 2.35:1 ratio and region A.


So far I have not been disappointed with the German Blu Ray imports that I have purchased previously, so I went the German version, I will know if I made a good decision in a few days.
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post #21 of 98 Old 04-23-2014, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post

I have the French release and think it's outstanding, even with occasional blown-out highlights (which are minimal and only distracting if you think they're not supposed to be there). The color is amazing, as is the level of detail. Very film-like.

I like the French one too. The Sony version is still filtered and has dull colour. The Gaumont has sharper detail and punchier colour, although the jacked-up contrast won't be to everyone's tastes. Still, it's not as bad as what Besson did to Leon re: contrast.
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post #22 of 98 Old 04-23-2014, 05:00 PM
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There is no definitive release, you have to choose between the old Sony master and the new Gaumont master.
Both have their strengths and weaknesses and with so many releases worldwide it's hard to keep track.

Releases that use the old Sony master:
- US
- US (remastered)
- German

Releases that use the new Gaumont master:
- Nordic/Scandinavian
- French
- UK
- Japan
- Japan (re-issue)

If you like the old Sony master the US (remastered) and German release are nearly identical video-wise, but the US (remastered )release has lossless English audio (LPCM 5.1 and TrueHD 5.1).
The German release only has English DTS-HD High-Res 6.1 and the initial US release is just awful.

If the new Gaumont master is your cup of tea the UK, Japan, Japan Re-issue and Nordic release are almost indistinguishable video-wise.
Only the French release falls behind with weaker grain preservation and significant lower video bitrate in comparison to the other releases and only having English DTS-HD High-Res 5.1.
All the other releases have lossless English audio (DTS-HD MA 5.1 or TrueHD 5.1).
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post #23 of 98 Old 04-24-2014, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buurke View Post

Releases that use the old Sony master:
- US
- German

Releases that use the new Gaumont master:
- Nordic/Scandinavian
- French
- UK
- Japan
- Japan Re-issue

I thought there was a US re-issue after some uproar over the PQ. Did that not happen? confused.gif
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post #24 of 98 Old 04-24-2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

I thought there was a US re-issue after some uproar over the PQ. Did that not happen? confused.gif

Sony released the movie as one of its initial wave of Blu-rays in 2006. The disc had a terrible transfer and looked like garbage. Sony later remastered and re-released the movie on Blu-ray in 2007. That disc looked vastly better. This is what people are calling the "old Sony master," because it dates back to the prehistoric days of 2007, around the same time that mankind first stopped drawing animal paintings on cave walls.

Gaumont in Europe later released a completely different transfer that jacked up the contrast and added a yellow tint to everything. Some people like that one better. Others think the 2007 Sony transfer is better. I fall in the latter camp, personally.
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post #25 of 98 Old 04-25-2014, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

I thought there was a US re-issue after some uproar over the PQ. Did that not happen? confused.gif

That's right, like Josh Z explains.

It was so bad that I didn't even include it in my list.
With US release I meant the remastered version.

I've updated my post to avoid confusion.
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post #26 of 98 Old 04-25-2014, 03:49 PM
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I see, thanks. I had no idea Gaumont had a newer transfer... Looks like they finally got rid of the edge enhancement on the US version which is a real bonus, but I don't know how I feel about the extreme boosting. Definitely strips away the 90s griminess - which is how I remember it. Hmm...
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post #27 of 98 Old 04-25-2014, 04:17 PM
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Ordered. $24 total including global priority shipping isn't the worst thing in the world. We love this movie, so it's worth quintuple dipping (2 DVDs, 3rd Blu-ray).
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post #28 of 98 Old 04-25-2014, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

Ordered. $24 total including global priority shipping isn't the worst thing in the world. We love this movie, so it's worth quintuple dipping (2 DVDs, 3rd Blu-ray).
I had no idea the JPN release was that cheap shipped from Japan. Definitely the definitive release for region A players.
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post #29 of 98 Old 04-26-2014, 08:17 AM
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Not entirely complete but here's a comparison between the DVD, US (remastered), German, French, UK and Japanese release (select two releases to compare them).

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_list.php?hd_multiID=211
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post #30 of 98 Old 04-26-2014, 11:05 AM
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I bought the remastered US release way back, but should have waited. Colors are dull, it has edge enhancement and despite being remastered just generally looks like an electronic and dated master. Like most others not a fan of the boosting on the newer Gaumont master but I vastly prefer that with a nice filmlike scan underneath, to what was released in the US.

Also I remember comparing the French Pathe disc (think it's the same as the German) to the Nordic one, and the Pathe disc had some additional noise reduction. It wasn't an offensive amount, but you could notice some trailing grain.

UK or JP releases seem to be the best options.
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