Anyone know the root cause of Lip Sync Issues? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 7 Old 03-25-2014, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I struggled to get through Pearl Harbor on a brand new Samsung 3D blu ray player sending HDMI to a Yamaha RXV-675 to a new Panasonic 65" plasma tv. Lip sync made the movie unwatchable. My test scene was about two hours into the movie when Roosevelt was addressing his advisors about the attack on Pearl Harbor. Easily a 1/4 to 1/2 second lip sync issue. Yes my Yamaha has a lip sync adjust feature but why? Obviously this is a common enough issue that it must be compensated for but is the root of the problem?

I can't just go with an adjustment at the receiver level because Swordfish, the title I have on right now, plays back fine with no lip sync adjustment.

To make matters more confusing, I plugged in my three year old Panasonic Blu-ray player and tried that same scene from Pearl Harbor. It played back just fine. I purchased and have already returned a new Sony 3D player as it performs as poorly as the Samsung does. I may try a Panasonic tomorrow but since the 3D models are all sold out I'll have to get a 2D unit. I may do that as lip sync issues are, for one, annoying, but more importantly, shouldn't be here in the first place. My old Panasonic proves this.

So what is it that causes this issue? I have heard it is often the tv. The sound and picture enter the receiver and are output to the tv and speakers in a setup like mine. Supposedly there is enough processing being done by the tv that results in a slight delay between the time the image is received and the time it is displayed. This would make sense but in my case one player does it and one does not. This eliminates the TV, receiver and also the BD title itself. What is more confusing is that this Samsung plays some movies okay and others not okay. Both Swordfish and Pearl Harbor are older movies so it isn't like old vs. new comes into play.

Anyone know what is really going on?

Greg
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post #2 of 7 Old 03-26-2014, 09:13 AM
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Non-CRT display technologies generally all suffer from display latency. The fastest displays with all processing disabled can get down to around 16ms, but most are operate in the 50-90ms range. Add latency from any source processing (DVD upscaling) or AVR processing (video enhancements), and this number can climb higher. AVRs often have an audio delay feature in order to get the audio to come out of the speakers at the same time the action appears on screen. If you use multiple sources, you may have different delays between them.
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post #3 of 7 Old 03-26-2014, 10:32 AM
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The display is ultimately the source of the delay, but the fact that different players yield different results may be a hint--it's possible that for whatever reason, those older players weren't outputting 24p video. The display received and displayed them without a lot of processing. The new players are outputting 24p (which is better), but the display sees that and that triggers a bunch of video processing in the display, which delays it. The fact that the new players are better is ironically making the video look worse.

Just disable any video processing on the display. "Smooth motion" frame interpolation, 2d-to-3d conversion, even sharpening. Set it all to zero. The display will still be delayed, but maybe by so little that it's no longer a noticeable problem. Disabling video processing usually results in a better picture anyway, so it's a win-win.
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post #4 of 7 Old 03-26-2014, 11:14 AM
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Yes, the added video processing adds a non-zero time delay between the audio and video, which is why most of the high-end receivers allow manual adjustment to properly sync them.
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post #5 of 7 Old 04-03-2014, 09:37 PM
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While we're on the subject… I've noticed a very slight delay in the audio when using my Epson projector. The audio is slightly behind the video. There is no delay dialed into the settings of any of my devices.

So, what I need to do is ADVANCE the audio a little bit. But neither my Blu-ray player or my AVR allow me to advance beyond 0, they can only be set to delay the audio.

The projector is being fed from the AVR over a 30-foot long run of HDMI. If anything, you'd think the video would be what was delayed. But it's not. The video is slightly ahead of the audio.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Mark
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post #6 of 7 Old 04-04-2014, 12:06 PM
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Try sending LPCM instead of bitstreaming, just in case it's a decoder-speed issue. Other than that, I'm out of ideas for what could be slowing down your audio.

Your other option is to make the video slower to match the slow audio. A very small sharpening setting may be low enough not to be noticed, but enough "processing" to slow things down on the video end.
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post #7 of 7 Old 04-13-2014, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post

Try sending LPCM instead of bitstreaming, just in case it's a decoder-speed issue. Other than that, I'm out of ideas for what could be slowing down your audio.

Your other option is to make the video slower to match the slow audio. A very small sharpening setting may be low enough not to be noticed, but enough "processing" to slow things down on the video end.

Thanks! We've got a movie night coming up this week so I'll give LPCM a try.

Mark
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