Are My BDs Degrading? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 08-01-2014, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Question Are My BDs Degrading?

All my Blu-ray discs are in pristine condition and both players (a high-end BDP-S760 in my HT room and a BDP-S3200 in my bedroom) have their firmware up to date.

However, my BDP-S760 seems to be having trouble loading some of my discs. I get an "Invalid" message on the display and a "Cannot operate this disc." message on the screen. After opening and closing the disc tray 3 - 50 times, the player is able to eventually load the disc and, after that, it will play it flawlessly. This happens with only a couple of Blu-ray discs which used to play perfectly before.

The newer BDP-S3200 appears a bit "stronger" as it can still read the degrading discs.

What is the life of a commercial Blu-ray disc? Are they supposed to decay so quickly?
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post #2 of 17 Old 08-01-2014, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael9009 View Post
All my Blu-ray discs are in pristine condition and both players (a high-end BDP-S760 in my HT room and a BDP-S3200 in my bedroom) have their firmware up to date.

However, my BDP-S760 seems to be having trouble loading some of my discs. I get an "Invalid" message on the display and a "Cannot operate this disc." message on the screen. After opening and closing the disc tray 3 - 50 times, the player is able to eventually load the disc and, after that, it will play it flawlessly. This happens with only a couple of Blu-ray discs which used to play perfectly before.

The newer BDP-S3200 appears a bit "stronger" as it can still read the degrading discs.

What is the life of a commercial Blu-ray disc? Are they supposed to decay so quickly?
By what your trying to describe does not sound like disc issues. Rather it appears to be a player problem. Make sure you have the latest software and don't assume a player's laser read mechanism can't go bad or become misaligned due to mechanical issues or even not reading properly due to dust. Some disc's are more sensitive to playing errors than others as well.
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post #3 of 17 Old 08-01-2014, 05:53 PM
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It sounds like your BD player's laser is slowly dying, unless you are coating your Blu-rays in grime and dirt.
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post #4 of 17 Old 08-01-2014, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Really? If it's the player, that sucks. I cleaned the two discs very carefully, but they still have the problem. The weird thing is that all my other BDs work perfectly fine.

And, again, it's happening only during the loading phase of the disc. Once it's loaded, after several tries, the disc will play perfectly as many time as I want.

Could it be that newer discs may have some features that might be incompatible with a player I bought in 2010 (2009 model)?
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post #5 of 17 Old 08-01-2014, 10:13 PM
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Eventually all machines that use a laser to read discs (CD, SACD, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, DVD, and even Laserdiscs) will stop reading discs. Laser's die out, tracking systems go out on alignment, and so on. Compared to your other A/V equipment a disc player if more like a car, just like a car get an estimate and fix or replace.
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post #6 of 17 Old 08-02-2014, 11:12 AM
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I've had issues with specific discs and specific players before. But it was something about the way those particular discs were made, they had those issues the day I bought them, nothing to do with degradation. They work fine in one player, have all kinds of issues in another.

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post #7 of 17 Old 08-02-2014, 04:35 PM
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When my first BD player was going bad, I thought it was discs, too. It started with a few isolated titles, then became a bunch of titles before it simply wouldn't play anything except a few select BD titles and DVDs.

After getting a new player, every "problem disc" played fine and they all still do.
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post #8 of 17 Old 08-02-2014, 04:56 PM
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Your blurays will outlive you.


100-150 years is what manufacturers are expecting.
http://superuser.com/questions/25136...-blu-ray-discs


Some as much as 1000 years
http://www.slashgear.com/millenniata...span-06285189/




The method of recording isn't using light sensitive methods like DVD optical drives. So BluRays are tougher - it's gotta be your player.
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post #9 of 17 Old 08-02-2014, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Funny, I've got two much older and significantly heavier-used Toshiba HD DVD players and both still work as solid as new. I don't think I've used the Sony BDP-S760 more than, say, 400 hours during its entire lifetime.

Again, the problem happens only with one or two Blu-ray discs in my collection, and only during the initial loading stage of the disc. Once the disc loads, it works perfectly well.

I remember I turned off the feature that allows the player to access the Internet recently because I've got sick and tired of the discs downloading movie trailers and waiting forever for the movie to start. I also pulled out the 4 GB USB stick that I had plugged in at the back. But I don't think these are related to the issue that I'm having.

My fear is that it may be a BD software issue in the sense that newer discs may not be compatible with older players. Sony did not push a firmware update for this model since 2012. Could this be perhaps the reason?
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post #10 of 17 Old 08-04-2014, 01:17 PM
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It might be, but there is no way to tell for sure without debug info from the player that is generated when discs are loaded. The only discs I've ever had any real problem with were Lionsgate titles, like "The Devil's Rejects", which won't load on my older Sony players.
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post #11 of 17 Old 08-05-2014, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
It might be, but there is no way to tell for sure without debug info from the player that is generated when discs are loaded. The only discs I've ever had any real problem with were Lionsgate titles, like "The Devil's Rejects", which won't load on my older Sony players.
That's interesting. Is there a way to obtain the the debug info that you mentioned? Thanks.
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post #12 of 17 Old 08-05-2014, 01:38 AM
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Definitely the player. A couple of years ago I bought a player made by Panasonic that had a problem dealing with many of the discs that arrived from Netflix. I always blamed it on Netflix - scratches, dirty discs and so on. One day I put a modest home theater in my bedroom and had very little room for a player so I chose a very cheap player made by Samsung because it fit in the space I had available. To my surprise it handled all the BD's that came in from Netflix as long as they weren't cracked. I could take one that wouldn't load on the Panasonic downstairs and watch it just fine in the bedroom.


So I bought a more upscale model by Samsung for the main home theater. Same result. The Samsungs are simply better at dealing with imperfect discs than the Panasonics. There may be many players that aren't so fussy about loading BD's. But at least you know that Samsung makes some that fit the bill.
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post #13 of 17 Old 08-05-2014, 07:50 AM
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On that note, I've had a lot of problems with discs that were "imperfect" with my high-end $300 Samsung player, so I replaced it with a cheapo Sony.
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post #14 of 17 Old 08-05-2014, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael9009 View Post
That's interesting. Is there a way to obtain the the debug info that you mentioned? Thanks.

Most definitely, but I couldn't tell you how. Most likely, it involves the service menu for the Blu-Ray player - not accessible by you unless you have the access method from the manufacturer - and the rear USB port on the player. That's how it goes with HDTVs and I have no reason to believe it would be different for Blu-Ray players.
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post #15 of 17 Old 08-06-2014, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael9009 View Post
Funny, I've got two much older and significantly heavier-used Toshiba HD DVD players and both still work as solid as new. I don't think I've used the Sony BDP-S760 more than, say, 400 hours during its entire lifetime.

Again, the problem happens only with one or two Blu-ray discs in my collection, and only during the initial loading stage of the disc. Once the disc loads, it works perfectly well.

I remember I turned off the feature that allows the player to access the Internet recently because I've got sick and tired of the discs downloading movie trailers and waiting forever for the movie to start. I also pulled out the 4 GB USB stick that I had plugged in at the back. But I don't think these are related to the issue that I'm having.

My fear is that it may be a BD software issue in the sense that newer discs may not be compatible with older players. Sony did not push a firmware update for this model since 2012. Could this be perhaps the reason?
The initial loading of the disc is the most intensive for the player. There's all kinds of scanning and loading going on to figure out what the disc is, what size it is, what content is on it and the decryption process itself to do any of the other stuff.

Even just spinning up the disc the first time can be an issue if the drive motor is failing.

Further, older players could very well be more robust and reliable since they may have been put out before many companies started using over the top cost cutting measures in a race to the bottom of the retail chain.

For what it's worth, I have BD Live turned off on every player I own. All it's good for is making me watch trailers and slowing down the loading of the disc. As a result, in theory, turning it off shouldn't cause your issue. However, you may want to plug the storage back in. I found my old player would sometimes fail to load a disc without a small amount of thumb drive storage plugged in, even with BD Live turned off.
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post #16 of 17 Old 08-07-2014, 08:05 AM
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For my player it's discs which are closest to 16 grams. If a disc is less than 15.5 grams it rattles with an unknown disc. Over 16.5 gives no disc.
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post #17 of 17 Old 08-09-2014, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
When my first BD player was going bad, I thought it was discs, too. It started with a few isolated titles, then became a bunch of titles before it simply wouldn't play anything except a few select BD titles and DVDs.

After getting a new player, every "problem disc" played fine and they all still do.

I had the same problem on a Panny BD player that I had to junk after only 2 years. It started out with select BDs and then more and more. DVDs still played fine but I junked it and got an Oppo.
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