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post #1 of 57 Old 08-16-2014, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally! Star wars original release

Ok, perhaps not quite a "finally" yet; however, the attached article discusses reports that prior to next years release of Star Wars VII, an unaltered original theatrical release of Star Wars will be released on Bluray.

https://www.yahoo.com/games/news/original-star-wars-trilogy-unaltered-002200388.html
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post #2 of 57 Old 08-16-2014, 06:59 PM
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This has been rumored using similar unverified sources about a million times before. Much as I'd love for something better than a shoddy twenty-plus-year-old Laserdisc transfer of these classic films to exist, wishing isn't the same as having. And this article is full of wishing.
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post #3 of 57 Old 08-17-2014, 02:05 PM
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Disney will definitely release them at some point. The only person holding up the original versions was Lucas himself and he is completely out of the picture.

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post #4 of 57 Old 08-17-2014, 03:17 PM
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I am not nearly so certain. The Star Wars property has not only been abandoned for twenty years, it has been actively scrubbed from the cultural memories of younger generations using an audacious bait-and-switch tactic. I'm not saying Disney won't do it, but the math isn't entirely in the favor of doing it. And the longer they wait, the less reason there is, as the actual Star Wars fanbase dies off, replaced by people who know only the Special Editions, and are only vaguely aware Star Wars existed.

And even if they do, I'm not sold on Disney's ability to do a respectful restoration, given their existing Blu-ray catalog. My guess is, if it's ever released at all, it'll be the 1981 video for Star Wars, and the 1993 audio mixes for all three films, possibly given some new surround remix on top of the already non-theatrical audio. Would they replace damaged footage with Special Edition footage, hoping nobody notices? Will they ship it off to Lowry to re-do the damage they inflicted in the SE's? There's a lot of ways this can go wrong, and without someone who actually deeply cares about the films in charge, I can see any of them happening rather easily.

Of course I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but after waiting so long for a Blu-ray quality release (or, hell, I'd be happy with a DVD-quality release, rather than Laserdisc-quality-on-a-DVD), I think it's safe to say I'm jaded.
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post #5 of 57 Old 08-17-2014, 03:18 PM
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Still just a rumor and as always, I only believe it when I see an official announcement. That said I am sure it will happen one day simply because it will be a big money maker. The only thing I am uncertain about is if there will be a re-release of the current awful looking pq of Phantom Menace.
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post #6 of 57 Old 08-17-2014, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
I am not nearly so certain. The Star Wars property has not only been abandoned for twenty years, it has been actively scrubbed from the cultural memories of younger generations using an audacious bait-and-switch tactic. I'm not saying Disney won't do it, but the math isn't entirely in the favor of doing it. And the longer they wait, the less reason there is, as the actual Star Wars fanbase dies off, replaced by people who know only the Special Editions, and are only vaguely aware Star Wars existed.

And even if they do, I'm not sold on Disney's ability to do a respectful restoration, given their existing Blu-ray catalog. My guess is, if it's ever released at all, it'll be the 1981 video for Star Wars, and the 1993 audio mixes for all three films, possibly given some new surround remix on top of the already non-theatrical audio. Would they replace damaged footage with Special Edition footage, hoping nobody notices? Will they ship it off to Lowry to re-do the damage they inflicted in the SE's? There's a lot of ways this can go wrong, and without someone who actually deeply cares about the films in charge, I can see any of them happening rather easily.

Of course I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but after waiting so long for a Blu-ray quality release (or, hell, I'd be happy with a DVD-quality release, rather than Laserdisc-quality-on-a-DVD), I think it's safe to say I'm jaded.
Do you have kids?

The reason I ask is because my niece and nephew have been huge Star Wars fans since before they were even allowed to see the films. When he was about 5, my nephew wanted a "Dark [sic] Vader Light Saber" for Christmas. He couldn't wait until he was old enough that his parents would let him see the films...All of his young friends are SW fanatics.

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post #7 of 57 Old 08-17-2014, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Gecko85 View Post
Do you have kids?

The reason I ask is because my niece and nephew have been huge Star Wars fans since before they were even allowed to see the films. When he was about 5, my nephew wanted a "Dark [sic] Vader Light Saber" for Christmas. He couldn't wait until he was old enough that his parents would let him see the films...All of his young friends are SW fanatics.
Yes I do. My oldest kid is actually meh on Star Wars, and the younger one is too young for movies. But there are lots of "Star Wars fans" among his friends, but if you check, it's 99% certain none of them have actually ever seen the Star Wars trilogy. They've only seen the Special Editions and Prequels (and Clone Wars, etc)--which is what I'm talking about when I say the math isn't in favor of doing a restoration of some films an entire generation of fans haven't even seen. As far as they're concerned, the films don't even exist. The bait and switch worked.
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post #8 of 57 Old 08-17-2014, 04:01 PM
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I forgot to point out that yahoo post is just repeating the somebody else's rumor which is at: http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/08/16...gy-to-be-rele/

Also I can only laugh at rumor that has no clue that the SW film rights are with Fox not Disney. If they do not know that they are not insiders.
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Yes I do. My oldest kid is actually meh on Star Wars, and the younger one is too young for movies. But there are lots of "Star Wars fans" among his friends, but if you check, it's 99% certain none of them have actually ever seen the Star Wars trilogy. They've only seen the Special Editions and Prequels (and Clone Wars, etc)--which is what I'm talking about when I say the math isn't in favor of doing a restoration of some films an entire generation of fans haven't even seen. As far as they're concerned, the films don't even exist. The bait and switch worked.
If that was true there would be only colorized films on home video but instead the b&w are the ones people want and what they are given in home video formats. People do not want to see the rock & roll version of Metropolis either even thou they most likely have seen that then the original.

The originals will be not merely big sellers, they will be the biggest ever for catalog titles and will also reap huge amounts in the other media formats.

Last edited by wuther; 08-17-2014 at 04:07 PM.
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post #9 of 57 Old 08-17-2014, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wuther View Post
People do not want to see the rock & roll version of Metropolis either
My informal survey among seven-to-twelve-year-olds may not stand up to rigorous statistical scrutiny, but its results suggest the rock and roll version of Star Wars is winning the hearts and minds of that demographic by a landslide (almost certainly due to fraud and/or lack of choice, but winning nonetheless). Metropolis, however, seems safe.
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post #10 of 57 Old 08-17-2014, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CatBus View Post
My informal survey among seven-to-twelve-year-olds may not stand up to rigorous statistical scrutiny, but its results suggest the rock and roll version of Star Wars is winning the hearts and minds of that demographic by a landslide (almost certainly due to fraud and/or lack of choice, but winning nonetheless). Metropolis, however, seems safe.
Oh I am not trying to convince you, just squashing the credibility of your claims with very apt examples. Also I forgot to mention at 4K the SE will look like crap while the originals will hold up much better.

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post #11 of 57 Old 08-17-2014, 05:40 PM
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Oh I am not trying to convince you, just squashing the credibility of your claims with very apt examples. Also I forgot to mention at 4K the SE will look like crap while the originals will hold up much better.
I wasn't aware the original version of Metropolis was suppressed for an entire generation. I guess your examples are apt after all. Mea maxima culpa for thinking they weren't.

The SE looks like crap at SD and 2K too, and that didn't stop anyone...

Alright, catfight over. It's all predictive and subjective guesswork after all. We all want the same thing, we're just putting different odds on it happening.

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post #12 of 57 Old 08-18-2014, 05:50 PM
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Also I can only laugh at rumor that has no clue that the SW film rights are with Fox not Disney. If they do not know that they are not insiders.
Sort of. They own distribution rights in all mediums and formats basically forever. Disney owns the IP of the film (characters, etc.) itself. Neither can release it without the other.
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post #13 of 57 Old 08-19-2014, 07:20 AM
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I'll just say that the following factors make me more hopeful than ever before:

1. Fox holds "permanent" rights only to A New Hope - Empire and Jedi only to 2020 ("You, like your father, are now MINE!")
2. Disney - as exemplified by the Marvel Studios acquisition - has been acutely receptive and responsive to the fanbase of its properties, delivering on promises previously though impossible ("Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm?")
3. Nothing precludes Disney from making a deal with Fox for a box set, except money, which both want to make ("1,000,000 spacebucks? That's unfair!")
4. While GL likely still has influence, he just isn't in legal control anymore ("If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will...")
5. The new trilogy will spark a massive resurgence in the popularity of the originals (unaltered or not) and if we get to 2020 and there is a strong desire for a 4K 9-film mega-collection, you can bet that Disney and Fox will make it work somehow to get that last bit of the puzzle. ("Han will have that shield down. We've got to give him more time!")
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post #14 of 57 Old 08-19-2014, 02:13 PM
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A good article describing why this is not likely:

http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/16/w...ars-ot-on-blu/
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post #15 of 57 Old 08-19-2014, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post
Sort of. They own distribution rights in all mediums and formats basically forever. Disney owns the IP of the film (characters, etc.) itself. Neither can release it without the other.
Got an official source for Disney being able to block Fox in anyway? I am pretty sure Fox can do whatever they want with the original SW since it owns it lock, stock and key. Things maybe different with the rest of the SW films but I am still sure Fox needs no permission from Disney if they decided to do a double/triple dip until 2020. Fox no longer has to worry about ticking off Lucas either.

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post #16 of 57 Old 08-19-2014, 04:52 PM
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Same argument going on in Devin's article thread at Badass.

No, I don't have a citation for you I can point to. But everywhere you look, you will see that Fox owns the distribution rights. Not the copyright. The copyright to the film belonged to Lucasfilm, and now Disney. Fundamental to copyright is the right to make copies. Fox has a contract that says if copies are made, they get to do it.

You can tell me I am wrong, and I have no further argument to put forth, so if so, we'll leave it at disagreement. But neither have I seen any cogent argument that Fox can release new copies without Disney's permission. That is not what distribution rights means.
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post #17 of 57 Old 08-19-2014, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon B View Post
Same argument going on in Devin's article thread at Badass.

No, I don't have a citation for you I can point to. But everywhere you look, you will see that Fox owns the distribution rights. Not the copyright. The copyright to the film belonged to Lucasfilm, and now Disney. Fundamental to copyright is the right to make copies. Fox has a contract that says if copies are made, they get to do it.

You can tell me I am wrong, and I have no further argument to put forth, so if so, we'll leave it at disagreement. But neither have I seen any cogent argument that Fox can release new copies without Disney's permission. That is not what distribution rights means.
First you claimed IP and now copyright. Fox owns the copyright to the original SW film not Disney or Lucas. The other SW films are more debatable but the Lucas deal with Disney is about merchandising and future productions not the changing the rights, including copyrights, from Fox to Disney. I doubt you find any official source stating Disney has the actually copyrights to the rest of the SW films either until 2020 that is.
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post #18 of 57 Old 08-20-2014, 03:29 AM
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Fox owns the copyright to the original SW film not Disney or Lucas.
Certainly not. They only own the distribution rights as Brandon said. The film belongs to Lucasfim/Disney.

There's money to be made here. We can expect Fox and Disney to sort it out and come to a deal so the older films can be re-released again in a shiny new boxset. As for ESB, ROTJ and the prequels, 2020 is only 6 years from now. Then everything from ESB to ep.xxxx should be released by Disney/BV, unless a new deal is made with Fox. For now all the films are "owned" by Lucasfilm/Disney but are distributed by Fox.

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post #19 of 57 Old 08-20-2014, 04:39 AM
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I'm the wacky one here; I firmly believe the redone versions are all I need, and this is from someone who saw it around seventeen times in the theater back in 1977.

Well, except for that #$@! "Noooooo!" from Darth in RotJ…
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post #20 of 57 Old 08-20-2014, 05:26 AM
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I'm the wacky one here; I firmly believe the redone versions are all I need, and this is from someone who saw it around seventeen times in the theater back in 1977.
The only thing they should have done imo, is "update" some of the visual effects so that they would be more consistent with the (now dated) prequels'. Changing/altering the story the way it's been done was an absurd move.
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post #21 of 57 Old 08-20-2014, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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The only thing they should have done imo, is "update" some of the visual effects so that they would be more consistent with the (now dated) prequels'. Changing/altering the story the way it's been done was an absurd move.
While I would prefer only a fully restored version, I agree that any changes should have been limited to the visual effects.

And regarding the ownership issue of SW:EPIV regarding Disney and Fox, it has always been my understanding that Fox has indefinite distribution rights only and Disney would have broadcast rights. And while I don't see either company giving either up I am quite sure a partnership would be made for the restoration and redistribution of the film. There is entirely too much money to be made even in a 50/50 split, not to mention fan goodwill.
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post #22 of 57 Old 08-20-2014, 12:40 PM
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I think the X-Men franchise would be key to Disney getting the rights to "A New Hope". Fox needs X-Men rights more than Star Wars at this point since they are getting to the end of X-Men in the next ten years as that film series sputters out.
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post #23 of 57 Old 08-20-2014, 02:03 PM
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The Star Wars fan community has pretty much already completed this undertaking...with probably more effort and better results than Disney would put into it.
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post #24 of 57 Old 08-21-2014, 07:08 AM
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The Star Wars fan community has pretty much already completed this undertaking...with probably more effort and better results than Disney would put into it.
True, but it virtually impossible for average-Joe to access.
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post #25 of 57 Old 08-21-2014, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post
The only thing they should have done imo, is "update" some of the visual effects so that they would be more consistent with the (now dated) prequels'. Changing/altering the story the way it's been done was an absurd move.
I didn't really think any of the changes (except for Darth's "Noooo" in RotJ) were that bad; I couldn't possibly care less "who shot first" as I never even noticed nor remembered who did.

On the other hand killing the "Lub Nub" song was a change I wholeheartedly endorsed.
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post #26 of 57 Old 08-22-2014, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting theory regarding X-men.
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post #27 of 57 Old 08-22-2014, 08:23 AM
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I'm going to go on a limb and say it will happen next year. They will restore the originals (from 4K) and you'll see them released at IMAX theaters prior to Episode 7 and before getting released on Blu-ray. I think there will be a big Star Wars marketing tie especially with the originals as Hamill, Ford, and Fisher are re-appearing in the new movie.

Since the Disney purchase, nothing changes really: Lucasfilm still produces the content and Fox will distribute it.

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post #28 of 57 Old 08-22-2014, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
I didn't really think any of the changes (except for Darth's "Noooo" in RotJ) were that bad; I couldn't possibly care less "who shot first" as I never even noticed nor remembered who did.

On the other hand killing the "Lub Nub" song was a change I wholeheartedly endorsed.
The "Yub Nub" song is a masterpiece and it's even better when it's the original Ewok version - never seen in cinemas or video releases - that fits with the footage and not the one in the final cut used in the pre-SE releases.
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post #29 of 57 Old 08-23-2014, 07:41 AM
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The original versions are out there if one googles "despecialized" editions...

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post #30 of 57 Old 08-23-2014, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to go on a limb and say it will happen next year. They will restore the originals (from 4K) and you'll see them released at IMAX theaters prior to Episode 7 and before getting released on Blu-ray. I think there will be a big Star Wars marketing tie especially with the originals as Hamill, Ford, and Fisher are re-appearing in the new movie.

Since the Disney purchase, nothing changes really: Lucasfilm still produces the content and Fox will distribute it.
I agree with this and not just speaking from the standpoint of a fan. I just think it's time and they realize the opportunity to capitalize on fans buying it (again) is pretty much now or never. Now that being said, IMO, the only way it wouldn't happen (before EpVII) is there not being enough time to do a quality job on all of the movies. So then, they may roll it all into a big BD marketing push when EpVII gets released on BD. But I think they'll go all out in an effort to have a box set (Eps IV-VI) to release for Christmas and will include a ticket voucher for EpVII.

Regardless, I bought the last box set (along with previous versions) and I meant it when I said the ONLY way I would by another copy is if it's a fully restored original theatrical release. I think I can tolerate some updates to the visual effects but basically, I want what I saw back in 1977...78...79...you get the idea...yeah, I saw it a lot!
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