Avengers: Age of Ultron Blu-ray - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 418 Old 09-22-2015, 12:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post
Check out data bass forums. There are SPL graphs of lossy mixes showing better curves that the lossless counterpart.

Thanks for the info; that is discerning, to say the least...

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BTW, I still feel that the bass on this was deep and tight probably because my sub can't do infrasonic frequencies. The other elements were the one concerning me.

I think Atmos is the first true step up on the home audio front due to the sheer number of channels supported. However the lossy core and the lossless audio could probably sound the same with a 5.1 speaker configuration.

Wait -- were you one of the out-of-region-A buyers of Age of Ultron that has seen it already?
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post #62 of 418 Old 09-22-2015, 12:28 PM
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Any words of wisdom from the resident film mixer on this subject?
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post #63 of 418 Old 09-22-2015, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Thanks Ozy,

Glad to know someone else didn't think of this as the "be all, end all" of comic adaptation projects; it could have been SO much better...in fact, it almost felt as if another director was behind the camera for this (and we know Joss was, so that wasn't the case)...

Now, I'm getting concerned about the audio for the U.S. Blu-ray release based on what I'm reading here -- I think this is a growing trend with the new Master Audio releases (I've always said Dolby TrueHD, when done right, comes off as being a far superior format for some reason, with much greater dynamics, aggression, LFE punch and overall wallop) because I just purchased and watched the Furious 7 Blu-ray (see my thread about this in the receivers section regarding the 7.1-to-5.1 debacle) yesterday and was greatly disappointed by Universal's 7.1 MA track...the whole thing sounded "stuffy," as if a blanket was encapsulating the audio. One member here in this thread summed up the experience perfectly (though he was referring to the Age of Ultron release): It seemed as if we were listening to this from a car with all the windows rolled up...

I truly don't know what's going on with these new releases; like Toe and other asserted, the first Avengers on Blu-ray was no sonic knockout, either (something I critically bashed when I first reviewed the title upon its release all those years ago) and whether or not Disney's acquisition of the Marvel operations has anything to do with this is unclear...I am finding these brand-new, lossless Master Audio-equipped Blu-ray releases to be somewhat subpar in the audio department...as if there's something "holding back" the sheer energy that these soundtracks are capable of releasing...

Want to know what's even more disappointing? I have rented really, really crappy direct-to-video films on DVD from Redbox including Asia-sourced Jackie Chan films and amped-up action boilers starring wannabe Hollywood stars such as "The Big Show" from WWE wrestling trying to walk in the shadows of Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, and they have ALL, in lossy Dolby Digital 5.1, sounded much more aggressive than these new MA-equipped Blu-ray releases, boasting heavy, brooding, wall-pounding LFE; incredibly loud and dynamic sonics; wild channel panning all over the place and, in general, a "heavier presence" with regard to the audio...

It's a head-scratcher, for sure...

Hope your wife enjoys the film, and please let me know what she thought of it by checking back into this thread after you guys watch it!
The codec has absolutely ZERO to do with it. It just happens to be that the mixes you like most are mostly TrueHD, but put that same mix as DTS-HD or LPCM and once volume matched it will sound identical. You don't get better dynamics, bass extension, etc.....with TrueHD. Look on data-bass.com for further evidence of this as there is a mix of both TrueHD and DTS-HD-MA for all the 4-5 star bass films. There is also a mix of both for some of the most disappointing bass mixes. Codec has no bearing on this and it is all about the mix/recording.

Both Age of Ultron and Furious 7 have severely lacking bass from an objective standpoint.
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post #64 of 418 Old 09-22-2015, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Both Age of Ultron and Furious 7 have severely lacking bass from an objective standpoint.
The audio on ultron is quite bad I wished I rented it now Todd. I'm sure it will be rereleased with DTS X hopefully with a more aggressive mix.



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post #65 of 418 Old 09-22-2015, 10:20 PM
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Both Age of Ultron and Furious 7 have severely lacking bass from an objective standpoint.
Disheartening to read they neutered the bass on F7.

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post #66 of 418 Old 09-23-2015, 05:00 AM
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Disheartening to read they neutered the bass on F7.
It is weak unfortunately. Check out the graph in post #22893 in the bass thread The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts

By the time we get to ONLY 30hz, there is no significant bass in this track.
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post #67 of 418 Old 09-23-2015, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ too bad.
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post #68 of 418 Old 09-23-2015, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
It is weak unfortunately. Check out the graph in post #22893 in the bass thread The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts

By the time we get to ONLY 30hz, there is no significant bass in this track.
That's unfortunate. Wonder what the rationale was to have the mix neutered at 30Hz? High profile movies like these should have Fury Road caliber mixes, with Atmos or DTS X. Nothing less.

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post #69 of 418 Old 09-23-2015, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
That's unfortunate. Wonder what the rationale was to have the mix neutered at 30Hz? High profile movies like these should have Fury Road caliber mixes, with Atmos or DTS X. Nothing less.

I agree but who knows what goes on in the mind of these mixers.


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post #70 of 418 Old 09-24-2015, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Gurba View Post
Any words of wisdom from the resident film mixer on this subject?
@FilmMixer Any insight on the crappy audio some BD's are delivering these days?
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post #71 of 418 Old 09-24-2015, 01:28 PM
 
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Wow...this is getting more and more depressing (the Age of Ultron Blu-ray audio debacle) as we approach the Region 1/A release day...


Disney is going to get more of my money, unfortunately and with great regret, but to give such a top-caliber release as this subpar audio just doesn't make sense; as it stands, Furious 7's Blu-ray audio sucks pretty bad (watched it again last night, cranked up pretty high, to confirm) and I said similar things about the past few releases that sported DTS-HD MA 7.1 tracks like Godzilla, Man of Steel (though that's grown on me) and World War Z...


What is going on here?
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post #72 of 418 Old 09-24-2015, 02:55 PM
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I still think there were some scenes with nice and deep bass. I hate way too much music being mixed into action scenes. Also I found the CGI on the opening sequence amateurish.

Godzilla is just a loud track. It hardly has any solid deep bass due to the loud mix. It is still good but not good enough if you are a bass head.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #73 of 418 Old 09-24-2015, 03:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post
I still think there were some scenes with nice and deep bass. I hate way too much music being mixed into action scenes. Also I found the CGI on the opening sequence amateurish.

Are you talking about Age of Ultron?

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Godzilla is just a loud track. It hardly has any solid deep bass due to the loud mix. It is still good but not good enough if you are a bass head.

See, I found the track -- OUTSIDE of the bass -- to be lacking in "loudness," as if it were mastered at too low of a level (though, admittedly, this COULD be because my AVR is "doing something" in the rear channel collapse from 7.1 to 5.1); the bass is there in wallops, especially when our favorite scale-backed monster from the sea begins stomping around at the Honolulu airport and in downtown San Francisco at the end, but it's just not CLEAN (something that had been discussed ad nauseum in the Godzilla 3D Blu-ray thread here)...if your volume is up too high, the LFE on that Warner Bros. disc begins to get muddy and unclear, with resonance shaking every corner of your room yet without refined, tight qualities...very strange.
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post #74 of 418 Old 09-24-2015, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Wow...this is getting more and more depressing (the Age of Ultron Blu-ray audio debacle) as we approach the Region 1/A release day...


Disney is going to get more of my money, unfortunately and with great regret, but to give such a top-caliber release as this subpar audio just doesn't make sense; as it stands, Furious 7's Blu-ray audio sucks pretty bad (watched it again last night, cranked up pretty high, to confirm) and I said similar things about the past few releases that sported DTS-HD MA 7.1 tracks like Godzilla, Man of Steel (though that's grown on me) and World War Z...


What is going on here?
Hope your not still suggesting DTS-MA has anything to do with your findings because it doesn't. Ironically, 7 out of the 8 5 star bass films on data-bass are DTS-MA, but again that has nothing to do with it as it's all about the recording/mix.

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.p...mes-music-etc/
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post #75 of 418 Old 09-25-2015, 06:38 AM
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@IntelliVolume ,

Yes, I was referring AoU.

Thanks for your opinion about Godzilla. Anyway I wasn't overly impressed by it but it should please the -loud is better- crowd.
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Blu-ray : 340
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post #76 of 418 Old 09-25-2015, 12:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post
@IntelliVolume,

Yes, I was referring AoU.

I, too, remember being let down by that opening sequence in Age of Ultron in the theaters; the CGI was indeed a bit cheesy and unrefined in many ways -- surprising for such a big-budget production as we approach the year 2016 -- and the elements of that scene's PLOT annoyed the crap out of me too (the way they were all suddenly "back together" without explaining how, or what kind of mission they were on...I said to my wife in the theater, as we were watching that opening sequence, that the film felt like someone other than Joss Whedon had directed it).


Thanks for the heads up about how this sequence played back at home on the Blu-ray Disc...

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Thanks for your opinion about Godzilla. Anyway I wasn't overly impressed by it but it should please the -loud is better- crowd.

Yeah, I didn't think it was such a great track, either; was just analyzing the disc's bass response...
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post #77 of 418 Old 09-27-2015, 08:17 AM
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If I had a week to remix Godzilla and replace the horrible roar that they used with a properly designed one, you'd all be suing WB for having your home audio systems explode. That being said, I REALLY hope they do a better job on the audio in the next one. I saw it in a state-of-the-art cinema with Dolby Atmos and it wasn't really that impressive, nor was it like something I'd expect a monster movie to sound like.
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post #78 of 418 Old 09-27-2015, 12:21 PM
 
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If I had a week to remix Godzilla and replace the horrible roar that they used with a properly designed one, you'd all be suing WB for having your home audio systems explode. That being said, I REALLY hope they do a better job on the audio in the next one. I saw it in a state-of-the-art cinema with Dolby Atmos and it wasn't really that impressive, nor was it like something I'd expect a monster movie to sound like.

What was wrong with Mr. G's "roar," Lex? I thought it was spot-on...
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post #79 of 418 Old 09-27-2015, 02:30 PM
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If I had a week to remix Godzilla and replace the horrible roar that they used with a properly designed one, you'd all be suing WB for having your home audio systems explode. That being said, I REALLY hope they do a better job on the audio in the next one. I saw it in a state-of-the-art cinema with Dolby Atmos and it wasn't really that impressive, nor was it like something I'd expect a monster movie to sound like.
Godzilla has the worst clipping I have ever heard in a movie track. The levels are so jacked up that there are numerous spots where you can clearly hear distortion. Bass extension was also a bit lacking, but the clipping was by far the biggest issue from my perspective.

Having said all that, I still enjoyed the hell out of it in the HT, it's just that it should have been considerably better if it had been mixed better.
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post #80 of 418 Old 09-27-2015, 03:15 PM
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You heard it from our homegrown and long term sound expert on Godzilla.

I still think Bass on AoU was decent if you aren't too anal about infrasonic.

The rest are of the mix are still debatable.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #81 of 418 Old 09-27-2015, 05:19 PM
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Sounds like this is a no buy for me.

Ðave -
It was technically a single shenanigan, more like a hijink...

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post #82 of 418 Old 09-28-2015, 06:09 PM
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I had similar complaints when I watched Age of Ultron. I actually stopped the movie during the first scene to check the settings on my AVR. Why is it that many of us complain about this in forums like this, but the reviews that come out give these tracks perfect ratings? For example, http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/2040...eofultron.html. What are they doing different than us? This review even specifies "thudding LFE sound effects"!
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post #83 of 418 Old 09-28-2015, 06:14 PM
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Avengers: Age of Ultron Blu-ray

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Originally Posted by solidus28 View Post
I had similar complaints when I watched Age of Ultron. I actually stopped the movie during the first scene to check the settings on my AVR. Why is it that many of us complain about this in forums like this, but the reviews that come out give these tracks perfect ratings? For example, http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/2040...eofultron.html. What are they doing different than us? This review even specifies "thudding LFE sound effects"!

Hopefully they have a better mixed Blu Ray. If that's the case I'll buy my copy in the U.S. when it's cheaper. There not doing anything different as there has been a barrage of complaints about the European and Australian Blu Rays.



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post #84 of 418 Old 09-28-2015, 07:04 PM
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I had similar complaints when I watched Age of Ultron. I actually stopped the movie during the first scene to check the settings on my AVR. Why is it that many of us complain about this in forums like this, but the reviews that come out give these tracks perfect ratings? For example, http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/2040...eofultron.html. What are they doing different than us? This review even specifies "thudding LFE sound effects"!
Always note what equipment is being used in a review. This reviewer is using a KEF PSW2500 sub with a single 10" driver and a 250 watt amp. This sub I am betting has ZERO useful output below 30hz, so Age of Ultron will sound "awesome" to him and he would not be able to tell any difference between this type of bass track and something FAR superior like WOTW for example. On a capable sub system (no offense to the reviewer), Age of Ultron will clearly be lacking and be a night/day different experience vs a true 4.5-5 star bass film.

A lot of these so called "pro" reviewers don't have low end systems that allow them to properly evaluate a bass track unfortunately.

EDIT: Even the manufacturer specs on the frequency response curve has this sub rated at 30-150hz so my guess was pretty damn good. Needless to say, this sub should not be used in any way, shape or form to evaluate bass tracks.
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post #85 of 418 Old 09-28-2015, 08:28 PM
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Always note what equipment is being used in a review. This reviewer is using a KEF PSW2500 sub with a single 10" driver and a 250 watt amp. This sub I am betting has ZERO useful output below 30hz, so Age of Ultron will sound "awesome" to him and he would not be able to tell any difference between this type of bass track and something FAR superior like WOTW for example. On a capable sub system (no offense to the reviewer), Age of Ultron will clearly be lacking and be a night/day different experience vs a true 4.5-5 star bass film.

A lot of these so called "pro" reviewers don't have low end systems that allow them to properly evaluate a bass track unfortunately.

EDIT: Even the manufacturer specs on the frequency response curve has this sub rated at 30-150hz so my guess was pretty damn good. Needless to say, this sub should not be used in any way, shape or form to evaluate bass tracks.
Ah, ok, that could very well be the difference. I feel like I have a fairly modest setup overall, but I suppose I do expect more out of my dual SVS PB12-NSDs than his KEF Really curious to start hearing people's thoughts on the US disc when it's released in a few days.
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post #86 of 418 Old 09-29-2015, 12:36 AM
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When I reviewed age of ultra on my thread, I rated the bass a 8 out of 10, now I'm hearing this on my 1030 thx atmos enabled reciever using the 5.1.4 atmos format with the DSU enhanced version of the otherwise dts soundtrack. I thought when I heard this movie in the theaters the basses was lacking somewhat because the home version is similar, could of been the theater.
But outside of bass the sound was fantastic via DSU enhancement.

Dolby Atmos For The Home: Personal Views & Bluray Reviews

My set up:
Pioneer elite atmos enabled tower speakers x4 and center speaker.
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post #87 of 418 Old 09-30-2015, 01:46 AM
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Got the UK 3D blu-ray and the English 7.1 DTS-HD MA track on both 2D and 3D discs is set at a very low volume. It started off great with the Ant-Man trailer sounding loud and pretty awesome, but then the movie started and I knew something was wrong straight away, I actually thought I had hit mute on the remote by mistake, it was that low, and even turning it right up, the audio lacked any real power, it's very disappointing. I stopped and checked my setup and tried a few other movies, to see it was my setup but they all sounded great as normal, so I put Age of Ultron back in and got the same thing as before, hardly any volume.

I've seen reports of the German and Australian version having the same issue too, so I was very surprised that the reviews saying the audio is brilliant, unless the US version doesn't have this problem, but there is definitely an issue with some versions of this blu-ray. I emailed Disney, so hopefully they will at least look into the issue.
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post #88 of 418 Old 09-30-2015, 01:47 AM
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Got the UK 3D blu-ray and the English 7.1 DTS-HD MA track on both 2D and 3D discs is set at a very low volume. It started off great with the Ant-Man trailer sounding loud and pretty awesome, but then the movie started and I knew something was wrong straight away, I actually thought I had hit mute on the remote by mistake, it was that low, and even turning it right up, the audio lacked any real power, it's very disappointing. I stopped and checked my setup and tried a few other movies, to see it was my setup but they all sounded great as normal, so I put Age of Ultron back in and got the same thing as before, hardly any volume.

I've seen reports of the German and Australian version having the same issue too, so I was very surprised that the reviews saying the audio is brilliant, unless the US version doesn't have this problem, but there is definitely an issue with some versions of this blu-ray. I emailed Disney, so hopefully they will at least look into the issue.
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post #89 of 418 Old 09-30-2015, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yautja-Warrior View Post
Got the UK 3D blu-ray and the English 7.1 DTS-HD MA track on both 2D and 3D discs is set at a very low volume. It started off great with the Ant-Man trailer sounding loud and pretty awesome, but then the movie started and I knew something was wrong straight away, I actually thought I had hit mute on the remote by mistake, it was that low, and even turning it right up, the audio lacked any real power, it's very disappointing. I stopped and checked my setup and tried a few other movies, to see it was my setup but they all sounded great as normal, so I put Age of Ultron back in and got the same thing as before, hardly any volume.



I've seen reports of the German and Australian version having the same issue too, so I was very surprised that the reviews saying the audio is brilliant, unless the US version doesn't have this problem, but there is definitely an issue with some versions of this blu-ray. I emailed Disney, so hopefully they will at least look into the issue.

Curious to know what they say.


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post #90 of 418 Old 09-30-2015, 05:51 AM
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Curious to know what they say.


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Will update if I get a response.

Other than that I guess it will be a case of cranking up the volume and bass really high, every time I want to watch this movie, or import the US disc if that's better. disappointing for a big release like this though.
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