The Fifth Element to be re-released - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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According to Sound and Vision there will be another version of The Fifth Element. It was the movie that many of us on this forum were really looking forward to and the first release was lacking. The superbit DVD is considered reference quality, so my guess is that Sony thought that if they released a BD version of the movie and used it in their promotional material then the BD version would be reference as well. Otherwise why use such an older obscure movie to promote the format? The problem for Sony is that they didn't let the guys that were doing the transfer and encoding know that it needed to be reference quality, so we ended up with a dirty print and soft picture. I'm sure now they are aware of the criticisms and will do a better job. I'm curious if they will let you trade your old version for a new version, or will they just expect you to buy it again? And will they do this with other first titles as well?
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post #2 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 06:29 PM
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Post a link to this info from sound and vision. I found nothing that says this on the web site. Also any idiot doing a transfer should be making the best quality transfer period. Even the newest titles released july 25 look little better than the first batch. I can't imagine they are going to replace all the ****** titles they have released. Underworld Evolutuin and from what I hear Stealth are the only titles that even attempt to do the format justice. The rest are a disgrace!
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post #3 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 06:40 PM
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post #4 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 06:58 PM
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Every movie should be as close to reference quality as possible. Sony shouldn't have to let the people making the disc know that.

Also, I knew all of these first release discs would get re-released, but it's only been a month! The double-dip train has started, and Sony's in the conducter's seat.

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post #5 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suprmallet View Post

Every movie should be as close to reference quality as possible. Sony shouldn't have to let the people making the disc know that.

Also, I knew all of these first release discs would get re-released, but it's only been a month! The double-dip train has started, and Sony's in the conducter's seat.

LOL, sad but true. Kind of makes you think Sony did this intentionally. I mean seriously, how could they have thought the current BD quality would be good enough to beat HD DVD? C'mon, I'm not that gullable. Along with rereleases I hope they come out with a major pricecut on their player.
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post #6 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 07:14 PM
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I've held Sony in very low regard for quite some time. They just don't have the same attitude towards transfer quality that other studios exhibit. Picture quality takes a back seat to other considerations.
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post #7 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 07:54 PM
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Why would anybody be suprised by this move from Sony. How many versions are there on dvd? Par for the course and an insult to their supporters because no way will they do a no cost replacement.

If this doesn't push you away from BR what will?
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post #8 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 07:55 PM
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are they recalling the first pressings of it, and replacing peoples already purchased copies, or is this in fact the formats first double dip?

Quote:


The problem for Sony is that they didn't let the guys that were doing the transfer and encoding know that it needed to be reference quality, so we ended up with a dirty print and soft picture.

Do you understand what you are saying here? Is that really the kind of format you crave- one where they just give attention and care to the highest profile titles?
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post #9 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulidan View Post

are they recalling the first pressings of it, and replacing peoples already purchased copies, or is this in fact the formats first double dip?



Do you understand what you are saying here? Is that really the kind of format you crave- one where they just give attention and care to the highest profile titles?

They aren't even doing that, are they.

Why would they need to tell anyone else to put out a quality disk. They are the ones doing the work. Not an outside pressing company.
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post #10 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 08:09 PM
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Prove that sony said this and not some guy form S&V.
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post #11 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 08:20 PM
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But didn't Don Eklund of Sony say that picture problems were the fault of Samsung, saying, "the player's image did not match the quality of the master tapes from which the Blu-ray titles were encoded."

So is it the player or the masters? And is the "problem" with the Samsung (which surprisingly enough was found by Sony, not Samsung) nearly a month after launch the first time anyone at Sony actually watched one of these discs?

Either Sony is buying time or they're incompetent and neither one is a great option.


(Lest anyone think I'm bashing, I'm saying this to try and rain down a little common sense for people to be forced to ponder.)
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post #12 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinca1 View Post

Prove that sony said this and not some guy form S&V.

Here's the e-mail I wrote to Rob Sabin, author of the S&V article:

Quote:


Hi,
On page two of your Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-ray Disc Player review, you wrote that Sony was committed to rereleasing "The Fifth Element" on BD because of less-than-pristine source elements. Just wondering how you learned this. Was this direct from Sony? Are they going to offer a replacement deal for anyone who currently owns this disc? Is there a timeframe for this rerelease? I'm just curious, because the disc is a little over a month old, and we're already talking about double-dipping, which, to me, is incredible. Any information you can share would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Bryan Ferreira

I'll post any reply I get here, if any, so watch this thread.
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post #13 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinca1 View Post

Prove that sony said this and not some guy form S&V.

BTW Kevin, I love your sig. I agree that the load times of the Toshiba are a flaw in an otherwise diamond of a machine.

Alright, I'll bite (again), how do you explain how bad the Fifth Element on BD looks? I understand you're no insider with any great amount of knowledge... But if you had to guess why it looks bad, what would be the most valid reason you could reasonably come up with?
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post #14 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 08:28 PM
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Ok thanks Bferr.

yep cliff thats why i am asking for proof.
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post #15 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulidan View Post

are they recalling the first pressings of it, and replacing peoples already purchased copies, or is this in fact the formats first double dip?

I am assuming that the old version will go OOP as soon as the new one is put together. However, considering how many BD adopters picked up The Fifth Element to show off their new system, this means that just about everyone who bought a BD player will have to buy a second version of this title. Which Sony will then count towards total BD media sales.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulidan View Post

Do you understand what you are saying here? Is that really the kind of format you crave- one where they just give attention and care to the highest profile titles?

What I don't get is, what happened to the master for the Superbit version? Did it disappear? Did they actually cut a new transfer for this, and decided it wasn't worth their time to make sure the master looked okay? What is going on over there?

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post #16 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 08:31 PM
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Well hate to dissapoint you but the diamond is blu-ray and the pebble is hd dvd.
I personally dont think it looks as bad as people are saying it looks better then the superbit version. explain why quite a few hd dvd titles dont look as good as others.
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post #17 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 08:35 PM
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To my eyes, it looked far worse than the Superbit version. And this was back when I was a BD supporter.

As for the HD DVD titles, there have been a few WB titles with transfer errors. However, instead of releasing them all and then re-releasing them, WB is pulling as many as possible before production begins to redo them. The ones out now will remain as they are. And even with those transfer errors, they still look far better than The Fifth Element BD does.

Also, every HD DVD I've seen looks better than the corresponding DVD version, even the flawed ones. I can't say the same about BD.

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post #18 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 09:18 PM
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It's a Sony title. It will not use VC-1 or AVC. It may be a 50GB, though.

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post #19 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinca1 View Post

Well hate to dissapoint you but the diamond is blu-ray and the pebble is hd dvd.

Oh, sorry, I thought you were being obvious in your sig, but now I can see you're going for a more intellectual, not-so-direct slant.

Quote:


I personally dont think it looks as bad as people are saying

That speaks volumes to anyone who has actually seen it.
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post #20 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 10:24 PM
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So will Warner re-release any of their bobbed 1080i HD-DVDs?
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post #21 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 10:28 PM
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Not in the forseeable future, no. In fact, from what I've heard, we'll actually see two more bobbed transfers because they were too close to production to be pulled. Every other problem transfer that was not too close to production is being redone as we speak. And honestly, I've watched Full Metal Jacket and it doesn't look awful. Certainly not bad enough to warrant a reissue.

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post #22 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

So will Warner re-release any of their bobbed 1080i HD-DVDs?

Another valid question with no clear answer.
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post #23 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suprmallet View Post

And honestly, I've watched Full Metal Jacket and it doesn't look awful. Certainly not bad enough to warrant a reissue.

I'd hate to see what you consider to be a bad transfer then.
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post #24 of 137 Old 07-29-2006, 11:28 PM
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The Fifth Element.

You have thirteen hours in which to solve the labyrinth, before your baby brother becomes one of us... forever.
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post #25 of 137 Old 07-30-2006, 12:54 AM
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If this is true, then this is a good thing!

Because it would mean, that Sony is reacting honestly. It would mean that they have quickly learned their lesson and will now do everything they can to make BD look as good as it can. Even if they stick to MPEG2, they will at least make sure that mastering is perfect.
I hope this info is true. I would be surprised if it was. To rerelease the Fifth Element would be confirming that they made a mistake. That the first release was not "beyond HD". Wouldn´t look good to the general consumer.
But due to the reasons mentioned before, I´d be impressed by Sony, if they released an awesome new version.

I´m from Austria so ignore bad spelling and grammar, please. :)
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post #26 of 137 Old 07-30-2006, 12:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fire407 View Post

According to Sound and Vision there will be another version of The Fifth Element. It was the movie that many of us on this forum were really looking forward to and the first release was lacking. The superbit DVD is considered reference quality, so my guess is that Sony thought that if they released a BD version of the movie and used it in their promotional material then the BD version would be reference as well. Otherwise why use such an older obscure movie to promote the format? The problem for Sony is that they didn't let the guys that were doing the transfer and encoding know that it needed to be reference quality, so we ended up with a dirty print and soft picture. I'm sure now they are aware of the criticisms and will do a better job. I'm curious if they will let you trade your old version for a new version, or will they just expect you to buy it again? And will they do this with other first titles as well?

DL, 50 GB?
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post #27 of 137 Old 07-30-2006, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowlander View Post

If this is true, then this is a good thing!

Because it would mean, that Sony is reacting honestly. It would mean that they have quickly learned their lesson and will now do everything they can to make BD look as good as it can. Even if they stick to MPEG2, they will at least make sure that mastering is perfect.
I hope this info is true. I would be surprised if it was. To rerelease the Fifth Element would be confirming that they made a mistake. That the first release was not "beyond HD". Wouldn´t look good to the general consumer.
But due to the reasons mentioned before, I´d be impressed by Sony, if they released an awesome new version.

Sony is faced with an interesting dilemna here.
TFE on Bd is now regarded almost unanimously by the people following this technology as a collosal disappointment- and one of the weakest HD on discs efforts of either of the two formats.
So if you are Sony do you clearly differentiate a new remastered disc from the first pressings- thereby inviting criticism for 'double dipping' and gouging, or do you quietly as possible replace the first pressings with the new ones and hope that all the chatter that has already surrounded the title doesn't spread any further and scare off new and future buyers?
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post #28 of 137 Old 07-30-2006, 08:38 AM
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I speculated this WAY back when. They released TFE with how many supplements? Transfer aside, they were ALWAYS going to do a double dip! This studio TRIPLE dips constantly! How mnay BlackHawk Down's and Underworlds are out? The fact that EVERYONE couldn't see this coming the day the specs were announced let alone the reviews absolutely amazes me.
You drop a grand on a machine to FINALLY watch one of your favorite flicks with the best possible PQ. Guess what? We ain't releasing it first. You'll have to wait until the 2nd or even 3rd release fot the supplements AND the best PQ.

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post #29 of 137 Old 07-30-2006, 08:50 AM
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Please do not let this thread become another Sony-bashing experience. That will not help us move forward.

I am glad if they are replacing this disk, just as I am glad that numerous other inferior DVD's from studios other than Sony have been replaced.

Please also note that "double dipping" is very common. New Line with LOTR? Universal with King Kong? Disney with many titles?
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post #30 of 137 Old 07-30-2006, 09:13 AM
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Quote:


The problem for Sony is that they didn't let the guys that were doing the transfer and encoding know that it needed to be reference quality, so we ended up with a dirty print and soft picture.

as in only take care in the movies that people will talk about? Didn't they think people would talk about any of the first releases?

At any rate, this is good news. Its one of the first signs that Sony and Blu-ray in general is concerned about picture quality. That has to be a good thing.

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