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Old 09-26-2006, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Just to give a heads up, I just finished watching CB and while it is a good release, it certainly is not a "reference" disc as many seem to be touting. First off, there is minimal posterization, from time to time, on the disc. A good example is the very first Wb logo as the movie starts (not the first WB intro that starts every disc). As it fades in and out, you can see the posterization in the grey cloud patterns.

More disheartening is the occurance of noise in the backgrounds at certain times during the presentation. Look at around 8:45 - 9:00 in and it is easily noticable as I would consider that instance moderate to severe, and very, very distracting. I was hoping for a homerun here, but alas, this is not it.

The transfer is certainly not all bad as the blacks can't get any richer or darker, color fidelity is outstanding, even with the intentionally subdued pallette, and depth and sharpness are always outstanding, so there are clearly som excellent attributes to be found, but the above issues keep it from being perfect.

Certain reviewers are really getting lazy with their analysis, seeming to only write the same ******** video review for every disc only changing the paragraph structure to look fresh. I'm sure the ever reliable Josh Z, and Home Theater Spot group will come to this conclusion once they are able to obtain their review copies, but until then, buyers looking for a perfect disc may be left wanting more.


P.S. I almost forgot to mention the fine texture detail, and it is amazing. Clothes takes on a whole new dimension as does the velvet-like wallpaper of the household. Even subtle nuances of the sculted puppets reveal lines and minor details hidden before by the DVD. Just wanted to point this out as another plus as I am FORMAT NUETRAL and only want outstanding presentaions. And most likely this problem will manifest itself on the HD-DVD anyway as the encoding is the same with the only difference being in the audio department.
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:00 AM
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How is the sound compare to DVD version??
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:01 AM
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Well, that is disapointing.

Decisions, decisions.... do I cancel my Amazon order before it ships?
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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the sound is of course richer, and I found the depth much more impressive than the DVD.

JoshD, there is really no reason to cancel as these issues again will be present on the HD-DVD.

maybe I should go back to pro reviewing again, becuase some of these issues need to be addressed. What do you guys think?
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphc
the sound is of course richer, and I found the depth much more impressive than the DVD.

JoshD, there is really no reason to cancel as these issues again will be present on the HD-DVD.

maybe I should go back to pro reviewing again, becuase some of these issues need to be addressed. What do you guys think?
Dolphc, I would not pick up on HD DVD. I would simply skip it.
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphc
the sound is of course richer, and I found the depth much more impressive than the DVD.

JoshD, there is really no reason to cancel as these issues again will be present on the HD-DVD.

maybe I should go back to pro reviewing again, becuase some of these issues need to be addressed. What do you guys think?
Which movies do you like on BD??????
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shamus1099
Which movies do you like on BD??????
The best transfers so far have been:

The Devil's Rejects - I think THIS should be the BD Reference disc. While it is very grainy, it is entirely intentional, with NO artifacting or posterization!

Total Recall - Great presentation with slight compression noise here and there in solid color backgrounds, with other video issues suffering from original photography and effects shots.

There are others that have been good, but not perfect, such as Tears in the Sun (Still has some pixel break-up in the solid walls in some shots) and the New WB releases that mimic the HD-DVD's are equally as good as the other format although none of those could be considered perfect.

I really thought CB would be the new reigning champ, but for now DR is still THE disc to beat in terms of BD quality displaying the MOST film-like presentation with no authoring issues.
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:51 AM
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Devil Rejects, huh? Might have to check that out.

I think I'm going to keep my order. CJplay did the encoding, and Amir said it was very good. That is enough for me to go on to spend $20 and form my own opinion.
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphc
The best transfers so far have been:

The Devil's Rejects - I think THIS should be the BD Reference disc. While it is very grainy, it is entirely intentional, with NO artifacting or posterization!

Total Recall - Great presentation with slight compression noise here and there in solid color backgrounds, with other video issues suffering from original photography and effects shots.

There are others that have been good, but not perfect, such as Tears in the Sun (Still has some pixel break-up in the solid walls in some shots) and the New WB releases that mimic the HD-DVD's are equally as good as the other format although none of those could be considered perfect.

I really thought CB would be the new reigning champ, but for now DR is still THE disc to beat in terms of BD quality displaying the MOST film-like presentation with no authoring issues.
Wow its amazing the different views people have... I havent seen DR, but I felt Total Recall was really soft.... I absolutely loved Tears and Stargate(minus some noise)....DR got ripped but reviewers tend to ignore that Zombie was going for a grainy 70's thing.... Thanks, I'll check it out...
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Shamus - Total Recall is soft, but like I said before, I wouldn't penalize a disc for the representing a film's particular style.

Joshd - I totally agree that it is a good release, and it is the best this title will see for some time, so if you dig the film, you kind of need it, right? there was just way too many instances of posterization for my taste, and I found the noise too distracting. Others may not notice it as much, but if i were to assign a number score to CB, it would be a 7 out of ten, where as otherwise it would have received a 9.5 if the noise and posterization were not present. The other aspects of the disc are great such as depth and color.

It's too bad things turned out this way, so along with Dinosaur (CB is certainly not as bad a representaion as Dinosaur) I am still waiting for the killer animated release to rear its head.
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus1099
Wow its amazing the different views people have... I havent seen DR, but I felt Total Recall was really soft.... I absolutely loved Tears and Stargate(minus some noise)....DR got ripped but reviewers tend to ignore that Zombie was going for a grainy 70's thing.... Thanks, I'll check it out...
Total Recall looked soft to me too. Stargate looked fine. Tears is coming today, so I'll check it out.
I'm debating on whether to get Corpse Bride today or wait for it on HD-DVD on Oct. 10th...

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Old 09-26-2006, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert Clark
I'm debating on whether to get Corpse Bride today or wait for it on HD-DVD on Oct. 10th...
Same disc. Pick your poison.
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep, the only difference will be the DD+ track as opposed to the vanilla DD EX track on the BD. So unless you need the DD+, there is no reason to really wait, imo.
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Clark
Total Recall looked soft to me too. Stargate looked fine. Tears is coming today, so I'll check it out.
I'm debating on whether to get Corpse Bride today or wait for it on HD-DVD on Oct. 10th...
Finally someone who agrees with me.... lol. You will like Tears!!!! Let us know how you compare that to your best HD-DVD movie...
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphc
Yep, the only difference will be the DD+ track as opposed to the vanilla DD EX track on the BD. So unless you need the DD+, there is no reason to really wait, imo.
They are both the same bit rate. They are exactly the same tracks.
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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You're right Joshd, my mistake. And I agree, again, that TR is soft looking, but not as a result of poor authoring.
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:24 PM
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No, it can't be...A VC-1 title not perfect?
If this was a meg2 disc there would be hell to pay!

Ahh...it's probably like that on the master.

I'm sure it still looks wonderful.

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Old 09-26-2006, 12:26 PM
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Hm. I haven't seen every title out there, but so far my favorites for PQ on Blu-ray are Lord of War, Good Night and Good Luck, and Underworld: Evolution.
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I have actually found posterization to be more of an issue with VC-1 than with properly encoded Mpeg2. You're right Brian that if this were in MPEG2, people would be bitching up and down, but unfortunately now, people are starting to see that the only differences are the space requirements needed for both.

As for CB looking "wonderful", sorry, but that's really pushing it. Good is as high as anyone can really go with properly calibrated equipment and an understanding of what a direct to digital transfer should look like.
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by txfilmguy
Hm. I haven't seen every title out there, but so far my favorites for PQ on Blu-ray are Lord of War, Good Night and Good Luck, and Underworld: Evolution.

Good call with GNGL. I forgot about that one. really outstanding release. UE is very good but a tad too inconsistant for my taste as some scenes took on great dimensionality, while others were sadly flat, but again, you cannot go wrong with GNGL.
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Old 09-26-2006, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphc
Just to give a heads up, I just finished watching CB and while it is a good release, it certainly is not a "reference" disc as many seem to be touting. First off, there is minimal posterization, from time to time, on the disc. A good example is the very first Wb logo as the movie starts (not the first WB intro that starts every disc). As it fades in and out, you can see the posterization in the grey cloud patterns..
Are you sure it's on the disc?
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Old 09-26-2006, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you sure it's on the disc?
Are you kidding? No, it might be my hardware and display. Dude my gear is ISf calibrated, I have 3 separate set-ups, and don't have the same problems with other discs. Once more people get it in their hands, you'll see the proper people pointing the same **** out.

And before we start the ******** again, it's not my Samsung player either. I have seen Amazing HD out of the Samsung. Discs that have scenes that look fantastic also have scenes that look like crap. Is that the fault of the Samsung? is the Samsung choosing when to apply its "faulty" NR setting?

I don't get any of this "are you sure it's not your gear" nonsense, THE DISC HAS PROBLEMS, deal with it. Like i said the disc is not awful, just significantly disappointing.

Sorry to be the one to bear bad news, but unlike some, I have no agenda, nor do I have a studio's hand up my ass!
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:08 PM
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That seems a bit harsh towards mhafner. Since others haven't pointed this out and at least one poster has theorized that it could be caused by 8 bit vs. 10 bit color processing somewhere in the display chain, it may not be the disc. I'm not saying it ISN'T the disc, but I have yet to see any of it with my A1 and IN76 combination. When Corpse Bride hits HD-DVD I will take a look. Another thread mentions the bar scene in Serenity exhibiting this, but having watched this several times I have yet to notice it. I'll watch it again and make it a point to look for it.

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Old 09-26-2006, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, the only problem with your theory is that I should be seeing posterization on many other discs as it is in my display chain. The only posterization that I am seeing is on this disc and a select few others (BD Dinosaur, HD-DVD Sky Captain) that others have confirmed. Again, I find it VERY hard to stomach the fact that I would have the same issues on three totally different set-ups, all of which have been ISF calibrated.

I am not trying to be harsh on mhafner, but it seems that HD-DVD issues are met with a dissappointment, while the BD group seems to constantly shift blame. I have always stated that I am nuetral and just want the best **** on disc, but this just goes on and on.

the disc is not awful, just disheartening. I am not sorry I purchased it, just wished it was better, especially considering how happy I was with all the other titles I got this week on HD-DVD (Fear & Loating, Fast & the Furious, Adv. of Robin Hood, T3, Land of the Dead).

Also, I do NOT expect a flawless presentation, but when the problems are occuring often enough, I find it distracting. Guess what, most people said T3 was amazing on HD-DVD, and I generally agree, but it wasn't perfect. There was a hint of noise once or twice and the blacks were slightly crushed, but it was a great presentation. I expected WB to continue its tradition of some of the best HD releases, but this title was a substantial letdown.
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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As an aside, I also suspect that certain, unnamed reviewers are just scaning through and spot checking a title. While I have posted initial impressions before, I ALWAYS let people know that i just flipped through.

What else can account for such discrepencies? Look at Dinosaur. by my account, and some others, this was a poor, poor release, yet some gave it a 4.5 out of 5. I mean come on, if a disc is crap, call it that. Too many are either using poor gear, stuff that is uncalibrated, haven't got a clue, or a combo of all three. I do think all should be able to share their take on a disc, but just because some studio's PR dept. sends you free s*it, it doesn't mean you are a pro reviewer.

Is it too much to ask for a person who gets free discs to actually watch them closely and report any problems which may arise? It may be, but then they shouldn't be doing it in the first place.
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:28 PM
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I didn't realize we were talking multiple setups here. That should all but eliminate the hardware from the equation. It will be interesting to see what the reasoning is when this is brought up in the various codec threads. Is it a limitation of the codec or something else at work? Either way it should be addressed if at all possible.

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Old 09-26-2006, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphc
Are you kidding? No, it might be my hardware and display. Dude my gear is ISf calibrated...
Maybe you could list the equipment used instead of getting defensive and just saying ISF. ;)
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought I listed above, sorry. i am leaving out audio gear as it is not part of the equation obviously

1)Sony 60" KDS60A2000 SXRD
2)HP MD6580N
3)Princeton AF3.0HD

I have two Toshiba A-1s
One Samsung BD-P1000

Both are used through HDMI when possible (The Princeton only accepts component) with the Toshiba's being set to 1080i and the Samsung to 1080p (except with the Princeton).
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolphc
Are you kidding?
No.
Quote:
No, it might be my hardware and display. Dude my gear is ISf calibrated, I have 3 separate set-ups, and don't have the same problems with other discs. Once more people get it in their hands, you'll see the proper people pointing the same **** out.
And before we start the ******** again..
No need to be rude.
ISF calibration is just one factor. And what you see from other discs is not conclusive either. If you see the problem when using the analogue out of the player into a CRT with no internal AD and DA and the player has no issues on his analogue out it is almost certainly on the disc.
I watch my stuff on CRT projectors direct from the analogue out of the player(s). Posterization is rarely an issue (DVD or HD). I have not seen this disc and have no opinion about its quality. It may well have this problem. The compressionist is on AVS. He should know for sure.
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:52 PM
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Sony SXRD is a pretty sweet display. We have a 70" here at work. Some of them develop a brown-green tint after the first lamp goes out. Other than that, it's a great image.
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