Unofficial Blu-ray Audio and Video Specifications Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1971 Old 02-24-2008, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Do all Blu-ray discs with PCM audio have DD tracks included on them so I can get 5.1 audio over the PS3 SPIDIF optical connection to a AVR that does not have HDMI inputs?

....is there a good list with all the audio codecs included for Blu-ray titles?

I see OP here says virtually all did as of 12/01/06. Has that trend continued?


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edit: I see now that the OP was updated 2/20/08. Thanks benes!

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post #92 of 1971 Old 02-24-2008, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

AHEM!

Yes, Peter, 39 GB. Since there are no extras on this, and no LPCM, I do believe that Fox was maxing out the bandwidth for this title.
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post #93 of 1971 Old 02-24-2008, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

39GB

Thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Having just watched this I think I know why you asked this question.
This is a fabulous looking title. Reference quality, and it appears that Fox was really taking advantage of Blu-rays bandwidth on this title.

You know me pretty well, Rob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Yes, Peter, 39 GB. Since there are no extras on this, and no LPCM, I do believe that Fox was maxing out the bandwidth for this title.


And I for one am quite happy to see discs without extras when the movie looks this good!
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post #94 of 1971 Old 03-14-2008, 10:47 PM
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benes, can you tell me how you calculate the bitrates? I am getting my Blu drive on Monday and I have many movies that aren't in this list so I want to help out.

Michael

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post #95 of 1971 Old 03-15-2008, 03:18 PM
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Has anyone experienced an "audio pop" from their speakers while watching Chronos on their Bluray player?
I just got this title but heard a loud audio pop near the end of the movie arouind 38:50 to 38:55 (38:52 exactly I think) where the camera is looking up at the cathedral ceiling with the lights shining thru

I backed it up and turned down the volume and heard the same thing

I have a Panasonic DMPBD30 player going into an Onkyo TX-SR705
I was playing the DTS-HD track

Wonder if it was a passage with loud deep bass and since I dont have my sub setup yet it overloaded the main speakers?

Can any one confirm this and what should I do?

Edit - Here is the new thread we began for this issue as it seems to be WIDESPREAD over several discs/receivers/players:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008620


Thanks

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post #96 of 1971 Old 03-16-2008, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

Well in the beginning (before ripping) I used to look at the file size and subtract the known values of audio tracks and subtitles. That would give you a good estimate of the video bitrate to within 1-2Mbps.

This thread is good stuff benes. Demuxing, rebuilding, and/or scanning each frame in the entire playlist of M2TS files seems a bit excessive just to grab the average bitrate, assuming one is not wanting anything else besides that. However, I haven't seen any better tools for doing this at the moment that cover MPEG-2, AVC, and VC-1.

The estimation approach doesn't sound too bad, since it seems you could ignore the subtitle tracks as they should be insignificant to the overall file size and just concentrate on subtracting out the assumed audio sizes.
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post #97 of 1971 Old 03-16-2008, 01:33 PM
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How come no one has 'No Country for Old Men' listed yet?

Is it 16 or 24-bit PCM?
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post #98 of 1971 Old 03-16-2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rieper View Post

How come no one has 'No Country for Old Men' listed yet?

Is it 16 or 24-bit PCM?

I am gonna do it tomorrow when I get my blu drive.

Michael

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post #99 of 1971 Old 03-16-2008, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rieper View Post

How come no one has 'No Country for Old Men' listed yet?

Is it 16 or 24-bit PCM?

According to High-Def Digest it is 24-bit @ 48kHz

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post #100 of 1971 Old 03-16-2008, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friedriceballer View Post

According to High-Def Digest it is 24-bit @ 48kHz

Yeah, but they simply regurgitate what's on the back of the packaging, so you need to check for yourselves. They also initially listed all the Harry Potter films and numerous other PCM/TrueHD films as 24-bit.

As far as Disney (like Underdog) package reads 24-bit but the playback bitrate is only 16-bit.

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post #101 of 1971 Old 03-16-2008, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

A free tip: Don't trust anything you read on HDD. Neither the specs nor the reviews themselves. That was one of the reasons why I started this list.

In fact they have it listed as "48kHz/24-Bit/4.6Mbps" which of course is mathematically impossible.

Good point, I didn't even notice that.
Are there any other sources for bitrates/sampling rates for BD movies other than this thread and (now I guess what is the only somewhat reliable) High-Def Digest?

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post #102 of 1971 Old 03-17-2008, 01:26 PM
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EDIT: Added more titles
Code:
Dolby TrueHD (lossless compression) 24-bit/96kHz
                                                                                                Total   Video
Title                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track        Secondary Audio Track
-----                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- -----------------       ---------------------
Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds: Radio City      VC-1    2:49:02 42,277,085,184  43,468,284,420  33.35   19.93   Dolby TrueHD 5.1        LPCM 2.0 2304Kbps 24-bit / DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps


LPCM (uncompressed) 24-bit/48kHz
                                                                                                Total   Video
Title                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track        Secondary Audio Track
-----                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- -----------------       ---------------------
Incubus: Alive at Red Rocks                     AVC     1:46:27 31,751,024,640  39,321,540,840  39.76   27.94   LPCM 5.1 6912Kbps       LPCM 2.0 2304Kbps 24-bit / DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps


DTS-HD Master Audio (lossless compression) 24-bit/48kHz
                                                                                                                Advertised
                                                                                                Total   Video   Video
Title                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track        Secondary Audio Track
-----                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------- ----------------------- ---------------------
From Hell                                       AVC     2:02:12 23,683,792,896  28,629,441,850  25.84   18.99   19      DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1


Dolby TrueHD (lossless compression) 24-bit/48kHz
                                                                                                Total   Video
Title                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track        Secondary Audio Track
-----                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- -----------------       ---------------------
Across the Universe                             AVC     2:13:17 30,381,668,352  48,419,674,542  30.39   23.65   Dolby TrueHD 5.1        DD AC3 5.1 448Kbps


LPCM (uncompressed) 16-bit/48kHz
                                                                                                Total   Video
Title                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track        Secondary Audio Track
-----                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- -----------------       ---------------------
3:10 to Yuma                                    VC-1    2:02:30 29,979,684,864  47,940,898,854  32.63   23.94   LPCM 7.1 6144Kbps       DD AC3 5.1-EX 640Kbps
No Country For Old Men                          AVC     2:02:10 28,659,640,320  32,261,761,685  31.28   23.18   LPCM 5.1 4608Kbps       DD AC3 5.1 640Kbps


DTS-HD High Resolution Audio (lossy compression) 24-bit/48kHz
                                                                                Total   Video
Title                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                                Secondary Audio Track
-----                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- -----------------------------------------       ---------------------
Queen Rock Montreal             VC-1    1:35:10 19,424,286,720  24,141,100,136  27.21   19.89   DTS-HD High Resolution Audio 5.1 3018Kbps       LPCM 2.0 2304Kbps 24-bit
Thanks to benes for all the help.

Michael

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post #103 of 1971 Old 03-19-2008, 04:57 PM
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Is there a way to get an excel XLS or CSV file of this complete list?
We are trying to track down only the DTS-HD encoded discs to try and investigate this loud speaker pop/bang issue on 4 disc to determine if its a disc/receiver or BR player issue

Thanks

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post #104 of 1971 Old 03-19-2008, 06:59 PM
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Would like to copy and paste the info but since the lines are so long from left to right, it wraps around in Word or Notepad and then the columns are messed up making it hard to decipher which codes go with which movie

Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

They are already listed according to audio format. Not sure what else you need.


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post #105 of 1971 Old 03-19-2008, 08:55 PM
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Once Blu-ray drives become a NORM in the PC market I think many will follow the path of benes and start contributing more.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #106 of 1971 Old 03-19-2008, 11:25 PM
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I thought it might be useful to have a tool that makes it quick and easy to collect this information, so I started working on one. One thing I am curious about: has anyone seen any seamless branching discs that reference a M2TS file more than once - i.e. branch into another M2TS file and then back to a former one at a higher time offset? At the moment, I'm just adding together M2TS file sizes to determine a MPLS playlist "size" - i.e. the "Movie Size", but that might not be a safe assumption.

I know many of the "garbage" MPLS playlist files repeat the same M2TS file over and over again, but I haven't seen any main titles do this even though it seems like a possibility. At the same time, I don't believe any of the current muxing/demuxing tools support setting in/out times for a M2TS so it must be fairly rare if it happens at all.

At the moment, I've got the MPLS parsing complete and a good chunk of the M2TS parsing done. However, only the AC3 payload scanning for extra details (bitrate, channel count/layout, etc.) is finished (albeit not shown in the screenshot below), so I've still got to tackle all of the other video and audio codecs. In terms of video bitrate, I haven't decided whether to take an estimation approach or try to calculate it for real (the latter might actually be easier).

Oh yeah, here's the work-in-progress screenshot :
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post #107 of 1971 Old 03-20-2008, 01:30 AM
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Most everyone knows that the film was encoded twice, once for the theatrical and once for the alternate (no seamless branching).

However, both files together are 31.4GB, bigger than what a HD DVD could store.

Is this Warner's first optimized encode?

The disc itself is 37.5GB for all files & features.

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post #108 of 1971 Old 03-20-2008, 01:50 AM
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Interesting but confusing too. I don't see any reasons for Warner to do a BD specific encode under current circumstances. If both versions are separate the movie size is just 15 GB which means a AVBR of around 15 Mbps.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #109 of 1971 Old 03-21-2008, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

Most everyone knows that the film was encoded twice, once for the theatrical and once for the alternate (no seamless branching).

However, both files together are 31.4GB, bigger than what a HD DVD could store.

Is this Warner's first optimized encode?

The disc itself is 37.5GB for all files & features.

Are you saying that there is no seamless branching for this movie, that there are two complete but different versions of the movie on the disc? How does one know for sure?

Pics from my TV here and here.
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post #110 of 1971 Old 03-21-2008, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris0 View Post

Are you saying that there is no seamless branching for this movie, that there are two complete but different versions of the movie on the disc? How does one know for sure?

Once you pop the disc into a PC it's pretty easy to see how things are laid out.

Michael

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post #111 of 1971 Old 03-22-2008, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

Nice. I will be interested to see your video bitrate calcs.

I've tried a few bitrate estimation techniques and none of them seem entirely satisfactory. Kind of a shame, because it only takes a second or two to scan the MPLS and M2TS in order to gather the rest of the information, but it can take awhile to calculate the real bitrate since all of the M2TS packets must be scanned individually for payload sizes and frame types.

The main difficulty with performing an estimation is that both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are variable bitrate and do not accurately report their average bitrates in their respective packet headers, so they must also be scanned - this prevents just doing a subtraction approach where the audio is taken out of the file size and the remainder is used to get the video bitrate.
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post #112 of 1971 Old 03-23-2008, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Interesting but confusing too. I don't see any reasons for Warner to do a BD specific encode under current circumstances. If both versions are separate the movie size is just 15 GB which means a AVBR of around 15 Mbps.

Is it possible that Warner used two separate encode files for the BD version but used seamless branching for the HD DVD version? Knowing Warner's track record (inefficiently using space to fill up the BD 50) I wouldn't be surprised by this.

Brandon
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post #113 of 1971 Old 03-24-2008, 12:17 AM
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No idea Brandon. It looks like Seamless Branching has not been implemented on the Blu-ray version. I doubt they will implement Seamless branching on the HD DVD as the file size of each version seems to be optimized to fit 30 GB with the removal of certain bonus contents that could have attributed to the consumption of additional 1.2 GB space on the Blu-ray. What a shame.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #114 of 1971 Old 03-27-2008, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

Is it possible that Warner used two separate encode files for the BD version...

Yeah, they did.

The theatrical cut is 15.23 GB, and the alternate cut is 16.24 GB.
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post #115 of 1971 Old 04-02-2008, 04:41 PM
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Is there a corresponding thread just like this for HD-DVDs audio quality?
If so please provide the link
Also, are there any BR's with DD+ (Dolby Digital Plus)
I noticed that sound format was not mentioned here on the list

Thanks

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post #116 of 1971 Old 04-02-2008, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinglerxt View Post

Is there a corresponding thread just like this for HD-DVDs audio quality?
If so please provide the link

Here you go, the link to the HD-DVD audio FAQ created by the same person who created this thread, benes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinglerxt View Post

Also, are there any BR's with DD+ (Dolby Digital Plus)
I noticed that sound format was not mentioned here on the listr

Thanks

According to Blu-ray Disc Statistics, "Planet Earth (US version)" [the one narrated by Sigourney Weaver, belonging to Discovery] and "The Pat Metheny Group: The Way Up - Live" both have DD+ tracks, they appear to be the only Blu-ray Discs with DD+ tracks. You would think that all discs with Dolby TrueHD tracks would include a secondary DD+ track, but I guess they decided not to.

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post #117 of 1971 Old 04-04-2008, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

There are no blu-rays with DD+. Those listings on the stats site are wrong.

DD+ is only used for Profile 1.1 PiP Secondary audio. For primary audio it can only be used for 6.1 and 7.1 tracks.

It was my impression that the Dolby Digital Plus label was loosely applied to some early Blu-ray titles to indicate that they had a 640 kbps bitrate as opposed to the previously standard 448 kbps bitrate. However, it really should only be applied to tracks with more than 5.1 physical channels and I believe you are correct that there are no existing Blu-ray with DD+ (aka E-AC3) although it is an optional audio codec in the BD spec.
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post #118 of 1971 Old 04-04-2008, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema Squid View Post

It was my impression that the Dolby Digital Plus label was loosely applied to some early Blu-ray titles to indicate that they had a 640 kbps bitrate as opposed to the previously standard 448 kbps bitrate.

I've not seen anybody doing that. It wouldn't make any sense, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema Squid View Post

However, it really should only be applied to tracks with more than 5.1 physical channels

No, the term "DD+" should be applied to tracks which are encoded in DD+. Why making things more complicated than necessary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema Squid View Post

I believe you are correct that there are no existing Blu-ray with DD+ (aka E-AC3) although it is an optional audio codec in the BD spec.

There is a technical demo disc with DD+ on it. But that's the only Blu-Ray with DD+ I'm aware of.
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post #119 of 1971 Old 04-04-2008, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

I've not seen anybody doing that. It wouldn't make any sense, either.

I think he's referring to the first 6 months or so of the format's existence. People were (mistakenly?) referring to DD 640 kbps as DD+.

Brandon
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post #120 of 1971 Old 04-04-2008, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

I think he's referring to the first 6 months or so of the format's existence. People were (mistakenly?) referring to DD 640 kbps as DD+.

Yes, that's what I meant - reviewers, etc. mistakenly labeling regular 640 kbps AC3 tracks as DD+ during the early period of Blu-ray releases. However, madshi is absolutely correct that DD+ encodes are readily identifiable as such from the audio headers on the disc, so it's not just a marketing label but actually a separate format spec.
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