PS3 owners on a budget, who want lossless HD audio - Look here. - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Blu-ray Software > PS3 owners on a budget, who want lossless HD audio - Look here.
HPforMe's Avatar HPforMe 08:39 AM 01-28-2007
Just picked up the Pioneer VSX-81TXV. This is a great receiver. Kicks out some of the best sound I've heard in a receiver. 2xHDMI (1.2) inputs with one out 1080p,i, etc., 7.1 PCM capable receiver. Listened to Tears of the Sun with the 5.1 PCM track. Wow!
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dobyblue's Avatar dobyblue 08:54 AM 01-28-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

The PS3 could also output SA-CD multi-channel via 192 kHz at some point. What will these processors do at that point? An unknown.

One safe way around this is to get a receiver with HDMI 1.2, then you'll be able to send the 1bit 2,822kHz DSD signal directly to the receiver and avoid a PCM conversion altogether. Probably won't find a receiver like this for under $600 though.
WilliamG's Avatar WilliamG 01:04 PM 01-28-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by WriteSimple View Post

"pass 1080p" means pass a 1080p signal cleanly from the source (PS3 or a BD player) to the 1080p HDTV.

There are some receivers that pass through 1080p that can upscale video signals to 1080p. I'm not sure if they can upscale 1080i to 1080p though.


fuad


Thanks for the reply. Is there anyone here who knows if there are any receivers that will take, for example, the 1080i output of the A2-HD HD-DVD player and upscale it to 1080p before it reaches my display?
Earz's Avatar Earz 04:29 PM 01-28-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post

One safe way around this is to get a receiver with HDMI 1.2, then you'll be able to send the 1bit 2,822kHz DSD signal directly to the receiver and avoid a PCM conversion altogether. Probably won't find a receiver like this for under $600 though.

Panasonic SA-XR 700 is 1.2A...and on sale at Vanns.
Luke212's Avatar Luke212 04:55 PM 01-28-2007
People are recommending the Onkyo 604 and 674, but how can you use them with your power amps? I cant see any 5.1 or 7.1 pre-out.
eightninesuited's Avatar eightninesuited 05:13 PM 01-28-2007
If there is no preouts, then you can't, you are confined to the power of the receiver.
firefighter81's Avatar firefighter81 05:14 PM 01-28-2007
You can't, which is the main reason I bought the Denon 2307CI. It's a little more money, but more features and a full 7.1 pre-out which was the main selling point for me.
FilmMixer's Avatar FilmMixer 05:25 PM 01-28-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvista View Post

You can pass bitstream audio to the HDMI 1.3 receiver to decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA audio and may also do additional audio processing.

And why is that better than doing it in the player? I've been asking this everytime somebody bring it up, and have yet to get a good answer.

(I am someone who thinks that 1.3 is a spec conceived to sell more gear, and doesn't offer any real world benefits as far as HD-DVD/BR is concerned.)

Decoding to PCM is the easy part.. it's what you do with it after thats important.
Sketcha's Avatar Sketcha 09:48 PM 01-28-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by HPforMe View Post

Just picked up the Pioneer VSX-81TXV. This is a great receiver. Kicks out some of the best sound I've heard in a receiver. 2xHDMI (1.2) inputs with one out 1080p,i, etc., 7.1 PCM capable receiver. Listened to Tears of the Sun with the 5.1 PCM track. Wow!

Sweet, HP! I'm holding out for one myself.

Have they fixed the LFE bug yet?
conan48's Avatar conan48 10:53 PM 01-28-2007
How bout lossless audio from the Multi AV output on the PS3? Think about it. Most people here are using HDMI to their TV. This frees up the Multi AV out port on the PS3. There is enough bandwith to support at least 5.1 analog out (hopefully 7.1) Does anyone know if this is possible? Has Sony even considererd this option? I don't see why it wouldn't work. Maybe someone who has some connection with Sony could ask or mention this to them. We could easily get upto 7.1 analog out from the MultiAV port and use HDMI for our TVs.
DaveFi's Avatar DaveFi 11:39 PM 01-28-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

How bout lossless audio from the Multi AV output on the PS3? Think about it. Most people here are using HDMI to their TV. This frees up the Multi AV out port on the PS3. There is enough bandwith to support at least 5.1 analog out (hopefully 7.1) Does anyone know if this is possible? Has Sony even considererd this option? I don't see why it wouldn't work. Maybe someone who has some connection with Sony could ask or mention this to them. We could easily get upto 7.1 analog out from the MultiAV port and use HDMI for our TVs.

No. Not going to happen. If you want lossless out of the PS3 you'll need a new receiver that decodes at least HDMI 1.1.
neemo6's Avatar neemo6 09:43 AM 01-29-2007
Just got done reading this whole thread. I must say some things just flew over my head. Im a noob to home audio. Im hearing DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, PCM, lossless audio, dont have any clue what this all means or does. I currently have a year old yamaha reciever w/ no hdmi hookups. So im assuming none of these choices are available to me correct? Everything I watch and play is in either Dolby Digital or DTS in a 5.1 setup, and i think it sounds great. Is there a real need to upgrade? How much of a difference is all this new audio versus dolby digital?
pteittinen's Avatar pteittinen 12:17 PM 01-29-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

The PS3 could also output SA-CD multi-channel via 192 kHz at some point. What will these processors do at that point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post

An unknown.One safe way around this is to get a receiver with HDMI 1.2, then you'll be able to send the 1bit 2,822kHz DSD signal directly to the receiver and avoid a PCM conversion altogether. Probably won't find a receiver like this for under $600 though.

Got the Sony STR-3200ES on loan and hooked the PS3 to it via HDMI. Played some new Depeche Mode multichannel SACD remasters and the audio quality is just insane. 3200ES reports receiving something like 177KHz PCM (can't remember what the number actually was). I've got a set of KEF's XQ-series speakers, and I've never ever heard them play so beautifully. Based on this experience, I placed an order for the 5200ES.
razel's Avatar razel 12:31 PM 01-29-2007
neemo6: No real need to upgrade as long as your reciever has digital inputs. Only reason to upgrade is if you want your receiver to get digital bitstream SACDs and DVD-As. You can still listen to lossless audio from movies, but it'll be stereo uncompressed PCM. No discrete surround. If you hear surround, your receiver is trying to process matrixed surround info. Well done DTS vs. well done uncompressed PCM yeilds very little difference. If there's any difference heard it's probably due to difference in volume or how the signal is processesed in your receiver.

Details found at this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=796439
Brian M's Avatar Brian M 04:51 PM 01-29-2007
Having read almost all these pages can someone just sum up what reciever you need for the ps3 to hear the next gen audio formats that everyones been bragging about.The most ive been able to pick up is you need a hdmi reciever.
Sketcha's Avatar Sketcha 05:09 PM 01-29-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian M View Post

Having read almost all these pages can someone just sum up what reciever you need for the ps3 to hear the next gen audio formats that everyones been bragging about.The most ive been able to pick up is you need a hdmi reciever.

You need an HDMI receiver that will handle the audio portion. Some recievers are simply a switcher and just pass the audio AND video right on through without any regard.

Ideally you also want one that will handle the LFE channel properly as well. It's clear that the Denons (2307, 2807) do this and I believe the Onkyos (604, 674) do as well. Not sure, at this time about the Pannys.

The Pioneers, which I want, have LFE issues, but there is a firmware fix. I don't know whether or not they've fixed recent builds, so I am waiting a bit, myself.
HDKing's Avatar HDKing 05:41 PM 01-29-2007
I've got a POS Sony HTIAB that's about 8 years old. Would it be bad to upgrade my receiver and worry about the speakers later on?
Sketcha's Avatar Sketcha 06:10 PM 01-29-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDKing View Post

I've got a POS Sony HTIAB that's about 8 years old. Would it be bad to upgrade my receiver and worry about the speakers later on?

Of course it wouldn't be bad. You just may not notice much of a difference until you do upgrade the speakers. Without seeing your actual system, that would be my guess anyway.

If it were me, I think I'd wait until I was ready to get some speakers too. If that's going to be awhile, prices may come down, or tecnology may change for the better in the recievers.

You could get 4 Polks (M10) and a Polk center all with 5 1/4 woofers from CC for 350 bucks right now. Something like that would be the BARE MINIMUM, I would say. Ideally 6 or 6 1/2" woofers would be a better minimum, but I wouldn't go under 5 1/4. Obviously you should demo anything.

Again now, if it were me, I would get a system from ascendacoustics.com; the best one I could afford.

My personal second choice for a good value would be a set of 5 B&W DM601 S3 or 4 plus the LCR60 S3 center.

Now subs are a whole other issue.

I like M&k MXs, but they're pretty spendy.

I think HSU and Outlaw will give you the most bang for the buck.

Good luck
HDKing's Avatar HDKing 11:30 AM 01-30-2007
Thanks for the advice man.
Sketcha's Avatar Sketcha 11:44 AM 01-30-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDKing View Post

Thanks for the advice man.

No problem.

I'd be interested in updates when the time comes.
IggyC321's Avatar IggyC321 05:23 PM 02-04-2007
ok i've read all the posts and other threads that seem similar to this one, but i have yet to find an answer for my question.......a few people have said that if you are using an optical cable for the PCM audio, then it is only a 2 ch. and the reciever tries to decode the different matrixs etc.. Well, when i change the audio from DD to PCM, it sounds 20x better. So my question is, is there a major sound difference to the normal person between PCM 2 channel and 5.1? My set up is a Sony STR-DG800 reciever, Klipsch quintet III, and a sub. Can anyone answer my qestion please? Thanks
Dan Hitchman's Avatar Dan Hitchman 05:35 PM 02-04-2007
Well, 5.1 is going to give you more specific surround activity as there are 6 discrete channels of information. 2 channel surround decoding (ie, Dolby ProLogic) is mainly created with bleed through of out of phase material.

The reason PCM sounds better is that it's uncompressed audio. So, you have a choice: better sound with 2 channels, or lesser sound with better surround action.

The only other option is to save for a receiver or pre-amp/processor that can handle 8 channel LPCM via HDMI, and can apply ProLogic IIx to 5.1 PCM signals as well.

Dan
Malcolm_B's Avatar Malcolm_B 05:43 PM 02-04-2007
As I wrote in another thread, I tried the "PS3 Uncompressed Cheat" and did hear clearer sound, but lose panning surrounds and LFE. Now, for music-heavy uncompressed discs this may be the way to go if you don't have/can't afford a better receiver at the moment. Wanna try Chicago in this manner.
vvista's Avatar vvista 04:37 PM 02-09-2007
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

And why is that better than doing it in the player? I've been asking this everytime somebody bring it up, and have yet to get a good answer.

It's not. It provides external Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA decoding option for 1st gen BD players that lack this feature!

michael000's Avatar michael000 01:27 PM 02-15-2007
Tried to get some help in the receiver forum and got tumbleweeds so i figure i'll try here. I'm preferrably looking for a sub $600 receiver that will

- take a lossless HD audio stream from a PS3
- time delay for the surround speakers
- allow for LFE adjustment for PCM tracks
- video upconversion to HDMI
- 1080p passthrough

I read through the suggestions in the first post but none seem to have all requirements. The closest i've found are the Denon AVR-887 (not sure if it does LFE adjustment), which is a little more than i was looking to spend; and the Onkyo 674 (which may or may not have LFE adjustment, seen posts saying both) which apparently has problems passing 1080p. If anyone's got any suggestions, comments, recommendations on receivers i'm overlooking then fire away, it'd be much appreciated. As of now the AVR-887 looks to be my only choice although i'm hoping i'm overlooking other options.
joeblow's Avatar joeblow 02:49 PM 02-15-2007
Just above a few posts Sketcha says...

Quote:


Ideally you also want one that will handle the LFE channel properly as well. It's clear that the Denons (2307, 2807) do this and I believe the Onkyos (604, 674) do as well. Not sure, at this time about the Pannys.

.

I don't know about the 887. If you find an A/VR that clicks with your list, I'll get that one too.
michael000's Avatar michael000 03:50 PM 02-15-2007
Even if the 674 does LFE adjustment for sure, it apparently has a 1080p passthrough problem because of some kind of HDCP issue so i'm opting against that one. Found out about it in the "5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver" thread, just do a search for "674" and they'll be the most recent ones.

If worse comes to worse and i just can't wait any longer i'll just go buy the AVR887 at Circuit City and test it out myself. Really don't want to have to do this though since it's $100 more there not including taxes.
Sketcha's Avatar Sketcha 06:34 PM 02-15-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael000 View Post

Even if the 674 does LFE adjustment for sure, it apparently has a 1080p passthrough problem because of some kind of HDCP issue so i'm opting against that one. Found out about it in the "5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver" thread, just do a search for "674" and they'll be the most recent ones.

If worse comes to worse and i just can't wait any longer i'll just go buy the AVR887 at Circuit City and test it out myself. Really don't want to have to do this though since it's $100 more there not including taxes.

Just read a report that says the the Onkyos DO NOT handle the LFE properly. So much for the cheap way in.

It seems to keep coming around to the Denons for the dough. I prefer the Elites and the upgrade has corrected their LFE issues, but I don't know if/when the new shipments will have the upgrade installed.

Anyone?

Of course you could test the Denon and take it back regardless of whether or not it works. Just make sure that when you do make the final purchase, that you buy it from an authorized retailer so they'll honor the warranty.
Sketcha's Avatar Sketcha 06:44 PM 02-15-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael000 View Post

Tried to get some help in the receiver forum and got tumbleweeds so i figure i'll try here. I'm preferrably looking for a sub $600 receiver that will

- take a lossless HD audio stream from a PS3
- time delay for the surround speakers
- allow for LFE adjustment for PCM tracks
- video upconversion to HDMI
- 1080p passthrough

I read through the suggestions in the first post but none seem to have all requirements. The closest i've found are the Denon AVR-887 (not sure if it does LFE adjustment), which is a little more than i was looking to spend; and the Onkyo 674 (which may or may not have LFE adjustment, seen posts saying both) which apparently has problems passing 1080p. If anyone's got any suggestions, comments, recommendations on receivers i'm overlooking then fire away, it'd be much appreciated. As of now the AVR-887 looks to be my only choice although i'm hoping i'm overlooking other options.

I think the 887 is going to cover it for you. I think it will do everything on your list.

Here is a comparison between it and the 2307. Other than price, a quick glance shows them to be identical and these big-store versions usually are... again, other than price.

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDeta...mageField.y=19

Good luck
Hunter67's Avatar Hunter67 10:20 PM 02-15-2007
[quote=vvista]
Quote:


It's not. It provides external Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA decoding option for 1st gen BD players that lack this feature!

1st gen BD players don't have HDMI 1.3 (other then PS3), so much for that idea.
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