BLU-RAY SALES THREAD: Put all sales figures and comments here! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 06:19 PM
 
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exactly! why would a cell phone company subsidize a phone which is used only for video games? They wouldn't, I guess.
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post #362 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 06:22 PM
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I think PS3 (from a BD aspect), and Toshiba's players to an extent, both intrude somewhat into a business model normally reserved for other businesses. This is because the manufacturers in both cases are direct beneficiaries of the royalty-driven business model reflected in the console space.

Although the PS3's pricing is definitely a result of the normal console pricing model, there *is* a portion of it, and not an insignifanct one either, that is being subsidized for its functionality as a Blu-ray player. I honestly don't think Sony cares at this point whether the owners are buying it for BD or for games; they'll take either, and honestly down the line, they probably expect some cross-over in both directions.
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post #363 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 06:25 PM
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No crossover from me. I only use the PS3 for BD playback. I originally thought I might use the PS3 for a few games but i don't really have time and also can't stand the PS3 controllers in comparison to the 360 controllers.The only reason I haven't boxed up the controller is because you need to connect it after a firmware upgrade. Otherwise all I need is the remote.

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post #364 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

exactly! why would a cell phone company subsidize a phone which is used only for video games? They wouldn't, I guess.

what point are you trying to make?
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post #365 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 06:47 PM
 
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I seriously doubt Sony makes the same profit on the sale of a PS3 game as a Fox or Disney BD movie!

Then my initial question remains. If Sony doesn't care between games or movies, then they would subsidize their standalone player as well. No?

My point is that every PS3 that is not used for gaming is a loss for Sony. If we end up with a lot of these, it's bad for Sony.
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post #366 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

No crossover from me. I only use the PS3 for BD playback. I originally thought I might use the PS3 for a few games but i don't really have time and also can't stand the PS3 controllers in comparison to the 360 controllers.The only reason I haven't boxed up the controller is because you need to connect it after a firmware upgrade. Otherwise all I need is the remote.

Aaron there's still like seven years left for you to make a crossover move. I'm not talking instantly here!

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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

Then my initial question remains. If Sony doesn't care ibetween games or movies, then they would subsidize their standalone player as well. No?

Yes, I agree with you here. Except that a lot of BD's strength is premised on their industry alliance. I think Sony would very much subsidize the players if they were in a Toshiba position, but since they are not, they will not. They don't want to burn their partners.

PS3 I think gets a pass from everyone in said alliance as it focuses on a group other than the "I'll never use a console crowd," which the $1000 players tend to target. It's an indirect competitor (in terms of placement). If Sony were subsidizing the BDP-S1 however, that would be a direct slap in the faces of the other BD manufacturers, as that competes in the same segment.
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post #367 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by camaj View Post

I don't know how you're defining that but if something has a 60/40 split the 60 side is 50% bigger than the 40 side. BB77 is mathematically correct.

It's not statistically signifigant, because you are converting it into a percentage to make it appear like a larger number that it really is. Look at my football example with a score of 8 to 6. That is a 33% larger score for the team that is ahead. You would express it as a percentage to mask the true gap and make the number seem more signifigant. However, the reality is there is a 2 point difference, which early in the game, is not signifigant at all.

He is correct about his percentage, but incorrect in saying that it is statistically signifigant (its not statistically anything for numerous reasons that are simple common sense).
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post #368 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:14 PM
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Btw HD DVD just took over Bluray on the dvd wars, lets start another thread!
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post #369 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

I seriously doubt Sony makes the same profit on the sale of a PS3 game as a Fox or Disney BD movie!

Then my initial question remains. If Sony doesn't care between games or movies, then they would subsidize their standalone player as well. No?

My point is that every PS3 that is not used for gaming is a loss for Sony. If we end up with a lot of these, it's bad for Sony.


In another thread, I estimated that Sony would need to sell around 6 BD movies to equal the amount earned from selling 1 game. And this estimate didn't take into account any additional money Sony might spend for the production of a BD50 disc (so it was be 6 BD25 movies, or maybe 7 BD50's). I think Sony needs an attach rate of around 9-10 games just to cover the loss on the hardware, so if people buy them for movie only, Sony needs to sell 60-70 movies (from Sony studios, not other studios) to cover the hardware loss. That isn't unreasonable. The 9-10 games are over a period of around 3 years, so that means 20 or so movies per year. It probably isn't realistic that ALL of those are Sony studio films. So in the end, Sony does loose a little money if the machine is movie only compared to selling it to someone who will use it primarily for games.
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post #370 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macroblocker View Post

Btw HD DVD just took over Bluray on the dvd wars, lets start another thread!

Don't you know, DVDWars is never right. You can't trust their numbers unless the show BD winning.
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post #371 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Macroblocker View Post

Btw HD DVD just took over Bluray on the dvd wars, lets start another thread!

Nah ...they are about even now.

Blu-Ray 538.6

HD DVD 538.5

Maybe HD DVD is gaining because Amazon don't have that much HD DVD titles out of stock:

Blu-Ray Total copies in stock: 7011
HD-DVD Total copies in stock:13561

...just saying.

Does price really matter if you are buying a ticket on the Titanic?
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post #372 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SyHD View Post


Blu-Ray Total copies in stock: 7011
HD-DVD Total copies in stock:13561

How did you get those figures?

Gary


- Don't trust sigs
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post #373 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:38 PM
 
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I believe 3 of the top 10 HD DVD titles are out of stock, hence the avg. rank is likely to fall soon. These also happen to be the newer titles such as Fearless, Lucky # Slevin and Clerks II.....
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post #374 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SyHD View Post

Nah ...they are about even now.

Blu-Ray 538.6

HD DVD 538.5

Maybe HD DVD is gaining because Amazon don't have that much HD DVD titles out of stock:

Blu-Ray Total copies in stock: 7011
HD-DVD Total copies in stock:13561

...just saying.

If those figures were true then you just confirmed the fact that HD DVD movies have a higher demand; hence they have to carry more supply in stock to meet customer demands.

KEEP BOTH FORMATS ALIVE!
This translates to better PQ & AQ.
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post #375 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

That would be an acknowledgment that Toshiba has so far competed effectively with the rest of the BD CE manufacturers?

Well of course they have. Otherwise this wouldn't be a war. I am one who believes the war has had a positive, cumulative effect, BTW.

So

1. They beat BD on the calendar

2. Subsidized their launch console (smart)

3. Were the only game in town for awhile.

They did most everything right, but, unfortunately fumbled at about the BD 20 yd line.

1. Poor product placement

2. Advertising, didn't see any

3. Someone forgot to remind Universal to be ready and make announcements at CES since it followed so closely Christmas and the PS3 effect.

4. I don't want to go into bugs, but the majority of neutral guys seem to be comfortable admitting that the A1 had/has more that its fair share.

I'll stop here.

The game is not over. BD recovered the fumble, but has a ways to go to the goal line.

Did I answer your question?
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post #376 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:51 PM
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The whole amazon thing is a big joke like I always suspected. Thedvdwars now shows the stock in hand for all these amazing disks we are comparing. You guys realize that the rankings move based on about a couple dozen disks a day right? I mean a top 200 DVD ranking appears to require < 90 disks in a day.

Those top 10 titles are showing stock of about 100 and the rankings can jump up a hundred spots when the stock in hand goes down by 2. What does that tell you?
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post #377 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dialog_gvf View Post

How did you get those figures?

Gary

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

I think they just added that data. Oh boy ...another number we could use and argue about.

Does price really matter if you are buying a ticket on the Titanic?
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post #378 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 08:59 PM
 
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Neo, I totally agree. The sites we are using to measure sales appear to have too low sales volume to matter.

However, there is entertainment value
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post #379 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

In another thread, I estimated that Sony would need to sell around 6 BD movies to equal the amount earned from selling 1 game. And this estimate didn't take into account any additional money Sony might spend for the production of a BD50 disc (so it was be 6 BD25 movies, or maybe 7 BD50's). I think Sony needs an attach rate of around 9-10 games just to cover the loss on the hardware, so if people buy them for movie only, Sony needs to sell 60-70 movies (from Sony studios, not other studios) to cover the hardware loss. That isn't unreasonable. The 9-10 games are over a period of around 3 years, so that means 20 or so movies per year. It probably isn't realistic that ALL of those are Sony studio films. So in the end, Sony does loose a little money if the machine is movie only compared to selling it to someone who will use it primarily for games.

btw, attach rate of 9-10 is record breaking... it is not that simple. Thats why you dont see PS3's failing, because Sony wants them to last for very long time :-)

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post #380 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LAGOSIAN View Post

If those figures were true then you just confirmed the fact that HD DVD movies have a higher demand; hence they have to carry more supply in stock to meet customer demands.

Blu-Ray have been doing so much better than HD DVD in the last several days ...HD DVD have caught up recently thanks to the large pre-orders of The Departed and the depleted stock of Blu-Ray titles(my theory). Other than that, they are about even in the past month. So to counteract your point, demand for both formats are about the same with an edge to Blu-Ray.

I also found it funny how HD DVD supporters see a healthy stock of HD DVD titles as an indication of higher demand but yet look at PS3 on store shelves as an indication of less demand.

Does price really matter if you are buying a ticket on the Titanic?
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post #381 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

Neo, I totally agree. The sites we are using to measure sales appear to have too low sales volume to matter.

However, there is entertainment value

Whoa, it gets even better. Just out of curiousity, I wrote down the numbers of stock in hand and rankings for some of those movies. Guess what separates a ranking of 927 jump to 735? One disk!!!!! Yup, stock in hand goes down by 1 in 15 minutes for AVP and the ranking jumps by almost 200 spaces.

I can't believe we spend all this time talking about the amazon rankings. Can we get off the silly website now. Please?
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post #382 of 11556 Old 01-26-2007, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Neo1965 View Post

Whoa, it gets even better. Just out of curiousity, I wrote down the numbers of stock in hand and rankings for some of those movies. Guess what separates a ranking of 927 jump to 735? One disk!!!!! Yup, stock in hand goes down by 1 in 15 minutes for AVP and the ranking jumps by almost 200 spaces.

I can't believe we spend all this time talking about the amazon rankings. Can we get off the silly website now. Please?

Where do you see the current stock for each title?
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post #383 of 11556 Old 01-27-2007, 01:22 AM
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btw, attach rate of 9-10 is record breaking...

And how!
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post #384 of 11556 Old 01-27-2007, 01:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

Lagosian, you sure as heck seem to want this format war to go on forever. Why not just push for BD to win?

cause its ridiculously expensive thats why.... well thats my answer to it

why pay $1000 for a stand alone player when you can pay $500 for something that does the same thing seriously.
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post #385 of 11556 Old 01-27-2007, 01:27 AM
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Whoa, it gets even better. Just out of curiousity, I wrote down the numbers of stock in hand and rankings for some of those movies. Guess what separates a ranking of 927 jump to 735? One disk!!!!! Yup, stock in hand goes down by 1 in 15 minutes for AVP and the ranking jumps by almost 200 spaces.

I can't believe we spend all this time talking about the amazon rankings. Can we get off the silly website now. Please?


? Where does Amazon list quantities on hand? Are you sure you were not looking at the number of 3rd party retailers with stock available?

As an aside, you wouldn't happen to occasionally pass by the real world remixed site, would you? Someone there uses your same tagline is why I ask.
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post #386 of 11556 Old 01-27-2007, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty22001 View Post

Lagosian, you sure as heck seem to want this format war to go on forever. Why not just push for BD to win?

I'll tell ya why, Monty!!!!!

I too just wanted to know why Lagosian who is so clearly HDdvd biased, (although he says go format neutral in his sig) posts in virtually every BD thread here when all he ever does is blast BD...?
I just re-read dozens and dozens of his posts where all he does is blast BD and Sony and holds up HDdvd to some lofty messiah like standard, all the while saying that, "I have a Sammy..." so it's ok, because he's dual format. He goes into any thread here no matter how trivial and starts sh*t.
What's funnier is I even found this post with him blasting yoyoiner from months back (he has since been banned btw...)

"
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAGOSIAN View Post

NO DUAL FORMAT OWNER, EVEN THOUGH THEY MIGHT PREFER ONE'S PQ TO THE OTHER (AS I HAVE CLEARLY STATED THAT I BELIEVE THAT HD DVD PQ IS BETTER) WOULD BASH THE OTHER LIKE YOU DO EVERY POST...YOU SIR, ARE A FANBOY!

Almost every post that you have is a spin on the superiority of BR and how HD DVD would soon perish. Anyone is welcome to read your posts and decide for themselves.

What does it matter if you choose one format over the other? It's your money...you are the boss. But do not insult our integrity by outright misleading posts that border on LYING.

I own a Sammy and love it, and would never say anything to offend buyers of the BR format which I wholeheartedly support. But I would not lie and discredit HD DVD which so far, has been the best overall PQ provider since inception.
I believe that there is more than enough room for both formats.

If you love BR and hate HD DVD, own up to it! Spare us the "I own both format crap...because YOU DON'T!

That's pretty funny. There he was blasting Yoyoiner for what he himself now does here daily. Blasting another format every post.

sheesh, hypocrisy, much...?

all ya gotta do is look at the post history. When is the last time lagosian even said ONE positive thing about BD recently...? yet he's here in virtually every BD thread.


edit:

AHA! Found this post from Lagosian in November...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAGOSIAN View Post

I support both formats, and am a fanboy to neither. But is there were a company that I do not want to have monopoly of the HD format it is SONY!

Don't think that a lot of people are blind to the fact that if it had not been for HD DVD, Sony would have stuck us with the bad PQ of "House of Flying Daggers" and "The Fifth Element" as the standard of HD PQ. In its infantile state we would not have seen the difference or cared! Given Sony's reputation I would never have supported Blu-ray if other CE companies were not involved.

I like the war!

It is assuring us of the best PQ and AQ for HD that we could possibly get. I hope that BOTH formats survive for posterity sake, if nothing else.

all makes sense now what he's doing here. He HATES Sony, LIKES the war!
wants both formats to survive! THAT's why he's so Pro-HDdvd now. Because they're the underdog and the tide has been turning towards BD!

but I'll bet he'll deny this even though these are his exact quotes that anyone doing a search can find. Just think, a member who LIKES the war and wants it to continue.... I guess if the new Universal releases really do start to take off and BD stalemates he'll start saying how great BD is so that it will balance out.

Does anyone remember that if it hadn't been for Say, SONY and BD, that next gen HD media would have been red laser? I believe at 720P max...? Sony and BD FORCED HDdvd to uprez...


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post #387 of 11556 Old 01-27-2007, 01:31 AM
 
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it can go both ways a1s that glitch like crazy ps3s that heat up like heaters a1s that lock up ps3s that lock up. a1s that wont play certain dvds and same with a2s. sony and pioneer blu ray players that wont certain olayblu ray discs.. hd-dvd discs that cost more for stupid combos, fox blu ray discs that cost more for a bare bones blu ray disc..

get my point neither format is perfect...
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post #388 of 11556 Old 01-27-2007, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1965 View Post

Whoa, it gets even better. Just out of curiousity, I wrote down the numbers of stock in hand and rankings for some of those movies. Guess what separates a ranking of 927 jump to 735? One disk!!!!! Yup, stock in hand goes down by 1 in 15 minutes for AVP and the ranking jumps by almost 200 spaces.

From looking at things I don't think that 1 sale caused that. The sales rankings don't update immediately, so sales can be from just a little earlier, if you didn't check stock before that. I have a couple of windows open from thedvdwars.com from earlier that show the in stock numbers for AVP and I just checked the hdgamedb site to look at how the ranking for AVP changed for yesterday and today.

My oldest window on thedvdwars (or now eproductwars) shows that the time was 20:15 central (9:15 pm eastern) yesterday and AVP had a ranking of 968 with 7 in stock. I have another window that shows the time was 3:00 central (4 am eastern) and for that one AVP had a ranking of 753 with 90 in stock. Assuming that no more came into stock, that is sales of 7 with the ranking moving up 215 points. From looking at hdgamedb (the movie comparison feature) for both days, it looks like AVP shot up just after midnight eastern, but didn't have any other big rise between 9 pm and 4 am. Just some little ones and some drops.

I've included graphs for Jan 26 and then up until 4 am eastern today in case anybody wants to see what AVP did in there. I just used Batman Begins from the other side to have something for the tool to compare.

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post #389 of 11556 Old 01-27-2007, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdodolak View Post

Where do you see the current stock for each title?

thedvdwars.com lists the stock in hand numbers for the titles they can ship. Every ranked title that is not preorder and in stock has a line that reports available stock in amazon.

For example :

The Mummy [HD DVD]
Price: $19.95
Sales rank: 955
Release date: November 28, 2006
Quantity in stock at Amazon: 129

What you can do is wait 15 minutes, watch the rankings and stock in hand. If they go down, see how rankings change.
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post #390 of 11556 Old 01-27-2007, 02:15 AM
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darinp,

I only took one snapshot over 15 minutes, the 200 spot rise from the 900s to 700s for AVP was when stock went down by 1, ie: sold 1 copy in that 15minute period. I assume that maybe 24 hours previously, no copy sold, and that no new stock arrived within the 15 minutes. Meaning then that to have sold 1 more disk in a 24 hour span, is enough to go from the 900s to the 700s. So 1 disk separates the 700s from the 900s.

There's probably ways to track them in more detail now, and maybe the 100s need to sell 10 or 20 more than the 200s in 15 minutes.

Frankly, I think this is all very silly. Entertaining for sure, but still very silly. I can't believe I'm still wasting my time looking at that site and those graphs just to chat about it.
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